unlag(shrub) vs antilag(osp/default)?

[Jun1oR]

Unlag is turned off

was g_antilag 1 turned on in its place?

It was yesterday but not today.

[Hayling Profile]

Jun1or, I could tell you two words lot of players are complaining and feeling frustrated about this experiment:

It's shit...

No lag compensation of anykind with timenudge (just to compensate for deviations) is just asking for trouble.

[Jun1oR]

Jun1or, I could tell you two words lot of players are complaining and feeling frustrated about this experiment:

It's shit...

No lag compensation of anykind with timenudge (just to compensate for deviations) is just asking for trouble.

Only person I seen complaining was ping rage. I have been playing and specing players all day, watching 100+ pinging players still owning on the server.

Boo7y still going 250 kills/3 deaths.

It wasn't my decision to disable g_antilag. MAA didn't enable it for what ever reason I'm not sure of.

Also I think some people might be frustrated because now they are loosing battles to players they haven't lost to before and using unlag as an excuse. If you ping is under 60ms don't blame lag compensation. If you have a high ping then lead your target if needed.

Theres a difference between having to lead you target and having your shots not do damage because of unlagged.

I have added a poll to the thread. You can change your vote if you change your mind. I'm pretty sure the outcome will be to keep the server as it was. That's what you guys are used to over all these years and most people like kool-aid.

[Tragic Profile]

Finally... Yes! OSP has anti-lag and whenever I've played on a euro server, it seems to help significantly. I've never seen shrub, with anti-lag so it would be interesting to at least try.

[=TAO=WARPIG Profile]

Since us low-pingers have been dealing with the opposite FOREVER it only seems fair to me. Tired of Parcher's (and other's) bullets hitting me 6 feet behind a wall. In the past I have searched for a way to make my ping higher so I can have the server help me kill everyone too. :)
100% agree with Junior on this.

[el maxicano Profile]

Since there's now a public vote on this, i am voting for unlag ON and anitlag OFF.

Unfortunately antilag has never worked well in RTCW. In ET antilag works like its intended, but since we're not playing that on ECGN, thats not really relevant.

Unlag is one of the few good things about shrub (together with being able to poison and goomba ofc ;)). It is a lag compensation method that actually works in RTCW, no longer you have to lead your shots as much with high ping.

I think it's funny that most people so far in favor of disabling unlag are players that are on low ping themselves. I don't think you are the best judges of a lag compensation method, cause you hardly experience any of the lag yourselves.
Ask players like Snafu or pingrage what they think, cause they are the ones playing on 300+ ping and can best tell the difference between the different lag compensation methods.

To some extent i can understand the frustrations of low ping players about unlag, because some weird situations can occur like players getting killed when already behind a wall.
If you think about it though, it actually makes sense. Because on your screen with low ping, you might be behind the wall already, but on the screen of a player with high ping you might not be.
And if he aims well enough on his screen to land bullets on you, then unlag will still make sure that you are dead. It's not a perfect solution, but the fairest of all alternatives in a world where players have different latencies to the server.

Ofcourse if you have no lag compensation method on the server or one that is broken, it will feel better to a low ping player. Because then the high ping players won't be able to hit them as well, giving the low ping players a definate advantage.
If you want to create a level playing field where both low & high ping players will get rewarded for aiming well, then unlag is the way to go!

[Jun1oR]

Since there's now a public vote on this, i am voting for unlag ON and anitlag OFF.

Unfortunately antilag has never worked well in RTCW. In ET antilag works like its intended, but since we're not playing that on ECGN, thats not really relevant.

Unlag is one of the few good things about shrub (together with being able to poison and goomba ofc ;)). It is a lag compensation method that actually works in RTCW, no longer you have to lead your shots as much with high ping.

I think it's funny that most people so far in favor of disabling unlag are players that are on low ping themselves. I don't think you are the best judges of a lag compensation method, cause you hardly experience any of the lag yourselves.
Ask players like Snafu or pingrage what they think, cause they are the ones playing on 300+ ping and can best tell the difference between the different lag compensation methods.

To some extent i can understand the frustrations of low ping players about unlag, because some weird situations can occur like players getting killed when already behind a wall.
If you think about it though, it actually makes sense. Because on your screen with low ping, you might be behind the wall already, but on the screen of a player with high ping you might not be.
And if he aims well enough on his screen to land bullets on you, then unlag will still make sure that you are dead. It's not a perfect solution, but the fairest of all alternatives in a world where players have different latencies to the server.

Ofcourse if you have no lag compensation method on the server or one that is broken, it will feel better to a low ping player. Because then the high ping players won't be able to hit them as well, giving the low ping players a definate advantage.
If you want to create a level playing field where both low & high ping players will get rewarded for aiming well, then unlag is the way to go!

Thank you for your input and that's what I'm looking for but I don't think people are bothering to read the thread in it's entirety. We have already established unlag is the better lag compensation but the switch is about unlag causing issues with things like bullet registration for certain players. If improving gameplay comes at the expense of 2 players than I think it's worth it.

[B]

Ask players like Snafu what he thinks, cause he is the one playing on 300+ ping and can best tell the difference between the different lag compensation methods.

Snafu let me know last night he didn't care for it.

[Lazyeye Profile]

Interesting! I have been very suspect as to hit registration for the longest time. I think Junior is on to something here. The thread although boring to read technical garb, something is a miss and i wonder if this is an unlag vs antilag issue. Yesterday Saturday 04/16/16 something interesting happened. I joined the server started playing and I noticed I was mowing down players with an mp-40 more than usual. It seemed to play as I always feel it should when I'm playing but never does. Is this an anomaly or was this "UNLAG" or "ANTILAG" being turned on or off during this test? I never knew of this post until today so the difference in shooting accuracy I experienced yesterday was noticed by me and not influenced by this post. Thanks for opening this can of worms. For what it's worth.

[el maxicano Profile]

Thank you for your input and that's what I'm looking for but I don't think people are bothering to read the thread in it's entirety. We have already established unlag is the better lag compensation but the switch is about unlag causing issues with things like bullet registration for certain players. If improving gameplay comes at the expense of 2 players than I think it's worth it.

I was just giving an example of 2 players with really high ping (300+) as the effect of removing unlag is the biggest for them. But it's definately not just 2 players experiencing the downsides of this change, pretty much everyone with a ping of 100+ will be negatively affected by this.
Not all of those higher ping players will care about not being able to hit as well as before, apparently Snafu doesn't mind. He gets his kicks out of other things in the game, like handing out ammo packs (and he is prolly the best at that in the game, together with Ribded!).

But there is a significant amount of higher ping players that do mind about not being able to hit as well as before and having to resort to leading shots. Even up to the point where they would just stop playing on ECGN.
With a RTCW community that is already very small, it wouldn't help keeping the server alive.

[Jun1oR]

Thank you for your input and that's what I'm looking for but I don't think people are bothering to read the thread in it's entirety. We have already established unlag is the better lag compensation but the switch is about unlag causing issues with things like bullet registration for certain players. If improving gameplay comes at the expense of 2 players than I think it's worth it.

I was just giving an example of 2 players with really high ping (300+) as the effect of removing unlag is the biggest for them. But it's definately not just 2 players experiencing the downsides of this change, pretty much everyone with a ping of 100+ will be negatively affected by this.
Not all of those higher ping players will care about not being able to hit as well as before, apparently Snafu doesn't mind. He gets his kicks out of other things in the game, like handing out ammo packs (and he is prolly the best at that in the game, together with Ribded!).

But there is a significant amount of higher ping players that do mind about not being able to hit as well as before and having to resort to leading shots. Even up to the point where they would just stop playing on ECGN.
With a RTCW community that is already very small, it wouldn't help keeping the server alive.

But what I am trying to portray to you is that there are players regardless of ping that are already unable to hit the opponent in direct result of unlagged. No matter what we do, whether we lead our shots it doesn't matter. You can be standing still or running right at us and not all hits are registered. Thats what this is about. So who is really at the advantage?. Most of the time I can't even kill someone from behind without emptying a clip into them and from the looks of this test I'm not alone.

[Hayling Profile]

I would give you an honest idea why unlag for some reason is wonky.

In firefights or not, sometimes there are hit-registrations were all over the place to a point I was mostly on the receiving end and not the sending end. It caused me to change aiming preferences a lot more than I was playing Dirty Bomb, most of the time the shots aren't plain registering. I don't know when it was implemented but it was really this time and age it devolved into a state some a few regular players took a break from playing. If this was the case Jun1or may have found the Achilles heel. I would like to try out anti-lag (if active) instead of playing without either, if experiment time permit.

I wasn't around when anti-lag was turned on in unlag's place during the week.

[EurO]

I wasn't around when anti-lag was turned on in unlag's place during the week.

Me either - would've been good to have been exposed to the difference (in the process of moving house). But I remember playing on ECG and HP-Depot when I was in South Korea with a 190 ping on an unwavering solid 100 MBPS connection, and just changing my eye/brain reaction times to compensate. Can't do anything about the "bullets" reacting, but we all have our own stories of needing 15 shots out of a clip all aimed at the head of a surprised opponent, and then getting killed with two shots by him. More built into the code? Like, if you come up behind someone, or are above him in elevation, it takes less shots to kill you than what you are shooting at him. Hoping to get on the server and test it if anti-lag is still enabled in my new place.

[parcher Profile]

I would like to add something (if I am not banned again for posting).

Here are my thoughts after playing on the server under different conditions this weekend (anti-lag, no lag compensation, unlag)

I think using anti-lag is the worst scenario. All players get minimal benefit while experiencing negative consequences. Registration for high ping as well as lower ping players is not improved much, and head shots do not register properly. Additionally, if you ping high 120+, you will not land shots even while aiming at players. And the game feels weird, you can tell bullet registration is not working properly. It changes the dynamic of shooting and gun battles to some degree.

No lag compensation-- This is ok for players with low ping 0-40. However, at 50+ your shots do not land properly, and the delay is noticeable. Anything over 100 is pretty much unplayable. I was struggling at 98 ping, which is what I ping to ECGN during peak hours. However, this is the only situation in which head shots land properly. Bullet registration feels more similar to original OSP that some players are familiar with; however, I don't think the registration is nearly as good as it is in OSP. I think OSP made some changes in hit boxes and some other items, but I can't really recall the exact differences. Also, Shrub might introduce its own changes as well. Obviously, for people playing on low ping 0-30, they will have a huge advantage over higher ping players. If I had a low, stable ping to ECGN, I would prefer having no lag compensation just due to the ability to land head shots and to have bullet registration work as intended by default. Even with my bad connection and high ping (for someone in US), I can almost convince myself its better because it is easier to kill people and get multi-kills if you are landing head shots. However, I know that its totally unfair to players with high ping and would rather have them be able to play well. In conclusion, I think that removing all lag compensation should definitely not be considered as an option.

Unlag- Best scenario considering what we have to work with. All players will be able to land shots reliably. If you aim at someone, most likely you will be hitting them. Of course its harder for people with higher ping. I find that around 100 ping sometimes feels the worst in terms of registration, but that could just be in my head. Unlag changes the dynamics of shooting and fights compared to having no lag compensation. Head shot registration is acceptable. It's better than with anti-lag but not as good as having no lag compensation. Because we have so many players on the server with diverse pings, I think this is by far the best way to go.

Also, a note about the server or maybe Shrub. I've noticed certain players are very hard to hit bullets on and sometimes they can just stand still and you can't shoot them while they can return fire on you. It could be because they are particularly good with like standing still and shooting while letting the bullet knock back cripple you. (C)Ghost, Bacon when he crouches, and SDI are the most notable examples of this. They will stand in one place and shoot you, and sometimes there is nothing you can do about it. Even with the unlag disabled yesterday I still noticed these situations as well as the poor hit boxes with crouching players.

In summary, I really don't think its a good idea changing unlag to a different system or removing lag compensation altogether. I think some players will find these moments of disbelief or confusion about how they died, how they were killed, or their inability to hit someone regardless of whether lag compensation is running or not. Simply, they are not honest with themselves about their own ability at the current time, the game itself and how it works, and want to blame some external factor such as unlag or 'hacking'

Also, I don't think its wise to base any judgement of unlag, antilag, no lag compensation on player performances or stats. There's many different factors that can impact someone's performance and stats. It's a pub after all, so if someone wanted to corner camp side upper base for the entire game long, they can do that and will probably have a high KR ratio and a large number of kills. If that same person decided he wants to just play with the team and help revive people , then his stats obviously are going to be completely different. And factor in other things such as distractions, listening to music,alcohol etc. Lot of things can affect people's play, connection stability.

For example, I know since I played 2-3 years mainly on 150 ping with European players and stopped playing much shrub during that time, my playstyle changed a lot and my ability to just aim well and have confidence in that has pretty much disappeared-- as a result of continuous negative feedback while trying to aim on 150 ping. My aim has become really poor and I'd like to improve it. But to do that I think you need practice in a situation where you can reliably land shots and be rewarded for good aim. My point is that player stats or performances should not be the tell-tale sign for either keeping unlag, going to no lag compensation, or going to anti-lag. I think with unlag, at least the skill ceiling can be high and all players will have the best chance of performing to their best ability in terms of basic aiming and fights. I think that unlag provides the best conditions for players with all pings to play well and be rewarded for having good aim, which is a large part of what the game is about due to it being an FPS.


This is my very poorly written summary of my thoughts on this debate.

[paint:> Profile]

I am for unlag being disabled and antilag enabled. Playing this weekend, I wasn't getting killed in backroom stairs by someone who was shooting me from the antenna on upper bunker. I was actually able to get behind a wall, while being shot, and survive. Usually I'd be out of shooter's path for a couple seconds and I would still die under the original server settings.

<33 Parcher