Coral sea whining
Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:53 pm
There's been a lot of complaints lately about the lousy AA cover on the axis ship. I'd love to hear how we can improve this. Maybe some constructive criticism?
Things to keep in mind:
1. The allies fly low to the deck down the middle of the carrier
2. You can't see planes flying low to the deck down the middle of the carrier
3. The close island aa gun has a hill blocking most of the attacking planes path
4. Shooting blind can cause damage to friendly planes.
I've attached a typical screen shot, with a couple of highlights, because I don't think some people actually realise whats going on. This is a very good sample of what you've got to shoot at. Please tell me where to aim to down it in 1 pass.
So I guess I'm saying, not shooting till you can see the whites of their eyes will let them bomb too freely, but if you shoot more, you risk a kick.
Suggestions?
Things to keep in mind:
1. The allies fly low to the deck down the middle of the carrier
2. You can't see planes flying low to the deck down the middle of the carrier
3. The close island aa gun has a hill blocking most of the attacking planes path
4. Shooting blind can cause damage to friendly planes.
I've attached a typical screen shot, with a couple of highlights, because I don't think some people actually realise whats going on. This is a very good sample of what you've got to shoot at. Please tell me where to aim to down it in 1 pass.
So I guess I'm saying, not shooting till you can see the whites of their eyes will let them bomb too freely, but if you shoot more, you risk a kick.
Suggestions?
Sun Jan 25, 2004 12:38 am
The solution is tactics... axis carrier needs one ZERO (not those moronic aichivals trying to dogfight 
) covering the carrier for the low middle pass... AA gunners need to be very cautious with their targets and get the guys who aren't doing the low pass... the dive bombers and guys coming in from the sides...
I often try to cover the ship with a zero, and often take a lot of friendly flak... understandable if there's an enemy close to me, but not if I'm all alone over the ship...
So the people bitching about lack of AA need to stop bitching about that and start bitching about lack of fighter cover... since in my experience, that is the only effective cure for the low middle pass...
Only one problem, you need to have someone who is decent at dogfighting to do it, otherwise it's counterproductive...
) covering the carrier for the low middle pass... AA gunners need to be very cautious with their targets and get the guys who aren't doing the low pass... the dive bombers and guys coming in from the sides...
I often try to cover the ship with a zero, and often take a lot of friendly flak... understandable if there's an enemy close to me, but not if I'm all alone over the ship...
So the people bitching about lack of AA need to stop bitching about that and start bitching about lack of fighter cover... since in my experience, that is the only effective cure for the low middle pass...
Only one problem, you need to have someone who is decent at dogfighting to do it, otherwise it's counterproductive...
Sun Jan 25, 2004 12:58 am
Since I tend to use the fly-over method a bunch when I'm on Allies, I'll say what usually gets me.
1. the center island AA has full coverage of the path that the vast majority of planes take.
2. The carrier AA and the two northern islands can shoot behind the carrier and in front to get them while they turn back for another pass. Don't shoot anywhere else or you'll get your own planes.
3. Do what Rule said and get a fighter going after them before they get to the carrier.
4. Put mines and exppacks on the front and rear of the carrier. Sometimes people get lazy and get too low and get caught by a mine.
5. Get some people as AT near the superstructure and work on your aim.
Other than that, I guess there isn't much else. I know the Axis are at a big disadvantage but I think there are ways around it.
-Bagginses
1. the center island AA has full coverage of the path that the vast majority of planes take.
2. The carrier AA and the two northern islands can shoot behind the carrier and in front to get them while they turn back for another pass. Don't shoot anywhere else or you'll get your own planes.
3. Do what Rule said and get a fighter going after them before they get to the carrier.
4. Put mines and exppacks on the front and rear of the carrier. Sometimes people get lazy and get too low and get caught by a mine.
5. Get some people as AT near the superstructure and work on your aim.
Other than that, I guess there isn't much else. I know the Axis are at a big disadvantage but I think there are ways around it.
-Bagginses
Sun Jan 25, 2004 1:08 am
True or False? If you have sufficient engineers spawning and shooting their 'wrench' before takeoff - AA support shouldn't be a big deal? I know reality is probably far different than this strategy but if done in this fashion I'd bet you'd never have to sit down in an AA and the ship would be just fine.
Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:02 am
Amazingly enough most people are spawning on this map as assaults/medics so they can OWNZ once the jump out by the enemy.
90 percent of your team should spawn as engy on this map and constantly repair the ship no matter what team you are on.
Plane getting shot down? Who cares! respawn as an engy, repair ship, and take off again!
90 percent of your team should spawn as engy on this map and constantly repair the ship no matter what team you are on.
Plane getting shot down? Who cares! respawn as an engy, repair ship, and take off again!
Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:26 am
Originally posted by hightimber
True or False? If you have sufficient engineers spawning and shooting their 'wrench' before takeoff - AA support shouldn't be a big deal? I know reality is probably far different than this strategy but if done in this fashion I'd bet you'd never have to sit down in an AA and the ship would be just fine.
You'll also never be able to take off.
Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:40 am
Ships dont sink as much as they used to anyway, it's usually the kills that win the map, in my experience.
Originally posted by hightimber
True or False? If you have sufficient engineers spawning and shooting their 'wrench' before takeoff - AA support shouldn't be a big deal?
Sun Jan 25, 2004 5:44 am
See pic, they are all aa kills from ship aa. The whole round people were bitching about no ship aa and yet those lazy bums won't get in an aa themselves. Why do so many bitch about something they are to lazy or unwilling to do themselves?
Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:57 am
Yeah Rule, I usually hang around carrier as the lone Zero mopping up the SBDs and Corsairs; no need to go looking for prey. I do this until someone on my team can't tell the difference between a white Zero and a blue Corsair and cures me of my oxygen addiction.
Sun Jan 25, 2004 9:40 am
DO NOT FLY OVER THE CARRIER!
It is too hard to determine a friendly from foe in the miniscule time you have to shoot at one.
Attack them on the way in and then get them on the way out.
The best way for Axis to win this map is to control the center AA and the near island AA and have our dog fighers covering the favorite approaches of the bombers. Also, put xpacks at the front lip of the ship to get those bastards doing the low fly-by.
It is too hard to determine a friendly from foe in the miniscule time you have to shoot at one.
Attack them on the way in and then get them on the way out.
The best way for Axis to win this map is to control the center AA and the near island AA and have our dog fighers covering the favorite approaches of the bombers. Also, put xpacks at the front lip of the ship to get those bastards doing the low fly-by.
Sun Jan 25, 2004 9:45 am
The way I see it is, is that the guys in the AAs need to be either medic or assault to defend themselves if a jumper is coming after them.
Then you need some guys as AT (on the Axis team only) and some spare engineers to go and keep those low-flying aircraft away.
If you're going to bail over an AA gun on an island, I say go medic, because if you can get out before the AA gun is destroyed, it'll come back, but you can keep yourself alive, and defended from other infantry.
A scout or two should be roaming the islands picking off AA gunners on other islands and gunners on the enemy carrier.
An assault or medic or two on the island next to your carrier to patrol it for jumpers.
Everyone else should spawn as engineer and repair before they take off. If you want to go jump off on their carrier, spawn assault, get in the back seat of an SBD and DON'T SHOOT THE TAIL!!! I swear, I take more damage on this map from smackers thinking they can shoot the Axis deck after I fly over it than I do from AA fire.
-Bagginses
Then you need some guys as AT (on the Axis team only) and some spare engineers to go and keep those low-flying aircraft away.
If you're going to bail over an AA gun on an island, I say go medic, because if you can get out before the AA gun is destroyed, it'll come back, but you can keep yourself alive, and defended from other infantry.
A scout or two should be roaming the islands picking off AA gunners on other islands and gunners on the enemy carrier.
An assault or medic or two on the island next to your carrier to patrol it for jumpers.
Everyone else should spawn as engineer and repair before they take off. If you want to go jump off on their carrier, spawn assault, get in the back seat of an SBD and DON'T SHOOT THE TAIL!!! I swear, I take more damage on this map from smackers thinking they can shoot the Axis deck after I fly over it than I do from AA fire.
-Bagginses
Sun Jan 25, 2004 11:32 am
What I always do is first is circle around once or twice if I'm in a Zero. I'll take down our Defgun and make sure the AAs are empty or friendly, then, with my airspeed up, I'll do patrols and dogfight the bombers in our half. If I get an Aichi, I'll do the circle to get airspeed, then I'll do one or two bombing runs. Then I'll come back to get repairs, or keep bombing.
It's just being logical. What does your team need?
It's just being logical. What does your team need?
Sun Jan 25, 2004 12:44 pm
1. While a fighter killing planes on the way in sounds good, it's VERY hard for the axis AA to determine friend from foe when the approach, since the main AA strategy on the axis side is blind firing (that is, shooting at the sound of the incoming plane before you can even see it. I've killed many a plane before it ever even showed up visually in front of me). The mini-map is almost usless here, b/c I usually have it at the max range on Coral Sea so I can try to id friend from foe at longer ranges, but it makes telling this at close range impossible (all the planes are overlapping at that point). If I played with the map on the closest range, I'd be shooting friendlies at range instead..... Also, when fighters are dogfighting around the carrier, you KILL my reaction times, making things worse, not better. I cannot tell one plane from another until I can see it, and so while I might be tracking a friendly plane, holding fire until I can see it, an enemy might be coming up behind me, who I could've shot down.....but didn't, b/c I never heard him.
2. As Bagginses mentioned, the near island AA works GREAT at killing these planes, but ONLY as the initially come in down the front, and as the turn at the front after their pass down the carrier (from rear to front). I have sat in this AA and wiped out people as they turn, or at least helped to kill them as one of the two front guns tracked them with me. Yes, it's not ideal, but it works. You can also kill, or at least wound, alot of incoming bombers at high altitudes over the island, or around the back of it. I also can call out incoming planes from various directions as I see them, even if I can't shoot at them, which can help the AA gunners on the ship if they're on TS.
3. Mines do work (the expacks do to, but are harder to time IMO). The only downside to this is friendlies who fly straight down the runway to take off and don't get enough altitude to clear the mines on liftoff.
2. As Bagginses mentioned, the near island AA works GREAT at killing these planes, but ONLY as the initially come in down the front, and as the turn at the front after their pass down the carrier (from rear to front). I have sat in this AA and wiped out people as they turn, or at least helped to kill them as one of the two front guns tracked them with me. Yes, it's not ideal, but it works. You can also kill, or at least wound, alot of incoming bombers at high altitudes over the island, or around the back of it. I also can call out incoming planes from various directions as I see them, even if I can't shoot at them, which can help the AA gunners on the ship if they're on TS.
3. Mines do work (the expacks do to, but are harder to time IMO). The only downside to this is friendlies who fly straight down the runway to take off and don't get enough altitude to clear the mines on liftoff.
Sun Jan 25, 2004 1:02 pm
Originally posted by Bullhead
2. As Bagginses mentioned, the near island AA works GREAT at killing these planes, but ONLY as the initially come in down the front, and as the turn at the front after their pass down the carrier (from rear to front). I have sat in this AA and wiped out people as they turn, or at least helped to kill them as one of the two front guns tracked them with me. Yes, it's not ideal, but it works. You can also kill, or at least wound, alot of incoming bombers at high altitudes over the island, or around the back of it. I also can call out incoming planes from various directions as I see them, even if I can't shoot at them, which can help the AA gunners on the ship if they're on TS.
Yes, this strat works for the Axis very well .. and is often underused (silly point whores/smacktards
) But to work most efficiently, the AAer on the island needs infantry protection. I remember doing this one night *long ago* with Havoc and Vamprey (someone else joined us but I forget who :-x). It helped the Axis win that night, though it was a long and tedious battle 
Sun Jan 25, 2004 4:48 pm
Originally posted by Wairudo Enjin
DO NOT FLY OVER THE CARRIER!
It is too hard to determine a friendly from foe in the miniscule time you have to shoot at one.
Attack them on the way in and then get them on the way out.
The best way for Axis to win this map is to control the center AA and the near island AA and have our dog fighers covering the favorite approaches of the bombers. Also, put xpacks at the front lip of the ship to get those bastards doing the low fly-by.
Since not all admins share that same opinion, can we get an official ruling from the admin group?