unlag(shrub) vs antilag(osp/default)?

[pixi]

I've been on ECG the last few days and to be honest, I like it with anti-lag on.

Here's a few reasons why, and yes I have an average ping of 40-50.

1. Accuracy seems to be better, although it seems to "take longer" to kill someone however, it feels as if my shots are actually landing now on all these people who I could never hit before. Examples of people I couldn't hit "destiny, villain, glitch, max, parcher" etc. Basically anyone with a 98+ ping.

2. No longer am I being killed as I duck for cover behind a door, or a wall. Was rather annoying.

3. Not sure why Max, Parcher, or PiPi are bitching when looking at the stats page... they're actually playing better accuracy/hs wise, yet are here denying it?

All in all, it is a change after all and it's something ALL of us would have to adapt too. I for one like the idea, and it's change. Who doesn't like change?

I COMPLETELY agree with point 2. I can't express this enough!

[el maxicano]

I've been on ECG the last few days and to be honest, I like it with anti-lag on.

Here's a few reasons why, and yes I have an average ping of 40-50.

1. Accuracy seems to be better, although it seems to "take longer" to kill someone however, it feels as if my shots are actually landing now on all these people who I could never hit before. Examples of people I couldn't hit "destiny, villain, glitch, max, parcher" etc. Basically anyone with a 98+ ping.

2. No longer am I being killed as I duck for cover behind a door, or a wall. Was rather annoying.

3. Not sure why Max, Parcher, or PiPi are bitching when looking at the stats page... they're actually playing better accuracy/hs wise, yet are here denying it?

All in all, it is a change after all and it's something ALL of us would have to adapt too. I for one like the idea, and it's change. Who doesn't like change?

You're such a joke, Tragic, i don't know whether to laugh about you or feel sorry for you.

First of all, both antilag and unlag have been OFF the last days, so your first sentence makes absolutely no sense, and neither do the votes based on the experiences of the last few days, cause all of those in favor of the current situation should have gone to both antilag and unlag disabled.

Then to go into your very well thought-through 3 points...

1. If it takes you longer to kill enemies with low ping and no form of lag compensation, then you are actually a shit player, which is of no surprise to me. I don't know how you come to the conclusion of the second part of your statement, cause i haven't played against you in the last few days. Don't mention my name if you haven't, cause it only discredits your statement.

2. That is one of the very few disadvantages of unlag, and i already explained in a previous post why it makes sense that happens and that it is the FAIREST of outcomes in an imperfect world where people have different latencies to the server.

I can repeat it here if you can bother / are able to read. It basically comes down to unlag allowing you to aim on the player model and being able to hit regardless of your ping. Which means that on your screen with low ping you might be behind the wall, on the screen of a high ping player you aren't yet. If he's able to track you well, you will still die when unlag is enabled.

3. I am not doing better statwise than in the previous situation, but thats not even a concern for me. Its easier to kill high ping players now, who are completely turned to shit because of this change to no lag compensation. Against scrubs like you with low ping but little ability, i am doing worse. Because you obviously have a big ping advantage now with the server change.

The whole idea behind my posts where to get the fairness back to the server, so both low and high ping players can enjoy a game of RTCW with the feeling they are actually able to hit something. Also to warn other players for antilag, which is far worse than unlag, but which you probably didn't even experience yet on ECGN.

[Jun1oR]

I've been on ECG the last few days and to be honest, I like it with anti-lag on.

Here's a few reasons why, and yes I have an average ping of 40-50.

1. Accuracy seems to be better, although it seems to "take longer" to kill someone however, it feels as if my shots are actually landing now on all these people who I could never hit before. Examples of people I couldn't hit "destiny, villain, glitch, max, parcher" etc. Basically anyone with a 98+ ping.

2. No longer am I being killed as I duck for cover behind a door, or a wall. Was rather annoying.

3. Not sure why Max, Parcher, or PiPi are bitching when looking at the stats page... they're actually playing better accuracy/hs wise, yet are here denying it?

All in all, it is a change after all and it's something ALL of us would have to adapt too. I for one like the idea, and it's change. Who doesn't like change?

You're such a joke, Tragic, i don't know whether to laugh about you or feel sorry for you.

First of all, both antilag and unlag have been OFF the last days, so your first sentence makes absolutely no sense, and neither do the votes based on the experiences of the last few days, cause all of those in favor of the current situation should have gone to both antilag and unlag disabled.

Then to go into your very well thought-through 3 points...

1. If it takes you longer to kill enemies with low ping and no form of lag compensation, then you are actually a shit player, which is of no surprise to me. I don't know how you come to the conclusion of the second part of your statement, cause i haven't played against you in the last few days. Don't mention my name if you haven't, cause it only discredits your statement.

2. That is one of the very few disadvantages of unlag, and i already explained in a previous post why it makes sense that happens and that it is the FAIREST of outcomes in an imperfect world where people have different latencies to the server.

I can repeat it here if you can bother / are able to read. It basically comes down to unlag allowing you to aim on the player model and being able to hit regardless of your ping. Which means that on your screen with low ping you might be behind the wall, on the screen of a high ping player you aren't yet. If he's able to track you well, you will still die when unlag is enabled.

3. I am not doing better statwise than in the previous situation, but thats not even a concern for me. Its easier to kill high ping players now, who are completely turned to shit because of this change to no lag compensation. Against scrubs like you with low ping but little ability, i am doing worse. Because you obviously have a big ping advantage now with the server change.

The whole idea behind my posts where to get the fairness back to the server, so both low and high ping players can enjoy a game of RTCW with the feeling they are actually able to hit something. Also to warn other players for antilag, which is far worse than unlag, but which you probably didn't even experience yet on ECGN.

Please lets not start a flame war and call people names.

We have already ran the server with unlag disabled and antilag enabled. MAA is now running the server with both disabled. The votes make complete sense.

Some of you seem to be stuck on this whole "its easier to kill high pingers now" thing but if you bother to read the thread then you would realize that its easier to kill EVERYONE now regardless of ping. Most likely due to the fact that our shots are actually registering more consistently. This is NOT about high pingers(or boo7y).

You guys keep saying unlag enabled is "fair" for all but its not fair to all of us, just as its not fair to all of us to disable unlag. The ones that are voting for unlag disabled realize this. The whole point of this thread is to address the issue and find a compromise for all.

The late damage thing is annoying but I think we can live with that if that was the only side effect of unlag but its not. I have also shown a few posts back how late damage can be a problem.

Explain to me how having only x amount of my bullets actually count towards to hitting their target is fair for me or any of us? I'm glad with unlag you dont have to lead your target but that doesn't work for me because I can tear the back of your head up and have it cause little or no damage. Why does it take so many bullets for me to kill someone? Oh that's right I suck....

[Tragic]

I've been on ECG the last few days and to be honest, I like it with anti-lag on.

Here's a few reasons why, and yes I have an average ping of 40-50.

1. Accuracy seems to be better, although it seems to "take longer" to kill someone however, it feels as if my shots are actually landing now on all these people who I could never hit before. Examples of people I couldn't hit "destiny, villain, glitch, max, parcher" etc. Basically anyone with a 98+ ping.

2. No longer am I being killed as I duck for cover behind a door, or a wall. Was rather annoying.

3. Not sure why Max, Parcher, or PiPi are bitching when looking at the stats page... they're actually playing better accuracy/hs wise, yet are here denying it?

All in all, it is a change after all and it's something ALL of us would have to adapt too. I for one like the idea, and it's change. Who doesn't like change?

You're such a joke, Tragic, i don't know whether to laugh about you or feel sorry for you.

First of all, both antilag and unlag have been OFF the last days, so your first sentence makes absolutely no sense, and neither do the votes based on the experiences of the last few days, cause all of those in favor of the current situation should have gone to both antilag and unlag disabled.

Then to go into your very well thought-through 3 points...

1. If it takes you longer to kill enemies with low ping and no form of lag compensation, then you are actually a shit player, which is of no surprise to me. I don't know how you come to the conclusion of the second part of your statement, cause i haven't played against you in the last few days. Don't mention my name if you haven't, cause it only discredits your statement.

2. That is one of the very few disadvantages of unlag, and i already explained in a previous post why it makes sense that happens and that it is the FAIREST of outcomes in an imperfect world where people have different latencies to the server.

I can repeat it here if you can bother / are able to read. It basically comes down to unlag allowing you to aim on the player model and being able to hit regardless of your ping. Which means that on your screen with low ping you might be behind the wall, on the screen of a high ping player you aren't yet. If he's able to track you well, you will still die when unlag is enabled.

3. I am not doing better statwise than in the previous situation, but thats not even a concern for me. Its easier to kill high ping players now, who are completely turned to shit because of this change to no lag compensation. Against scrubs like you with low ping but little ability, i am doing worse. Because you obviously have a big ping advantage now with the server change.

The whole idea behind my posts where to get the fairness back to the server, so both low and high ping players can enjoy a game of RTCW with the feeling they are actually able to hit something. Also to warn other players for antilag, which is far worse than unlag, but which you probably didn't even experience yet on ECGN.

Didn't bother to read your BULLSHIT after your first sentence. If you'd like to call me a joke, don't expect me to take you seriously with whatever you have to say. You of all people shouldn't be in here complaining about unlag, or anti-lag. Doesn't matter when you can see through walls, yea I said it. You're only on here because it's one of the last servers you can do your shady shit on. Look @ when you register, this month/this year. If it wasn't for unlag, you'd still be on the server HAXICANO'n it up.

ontopic: Looking at older stats, and stats within the last few days. It's honestly clear that it's helping(some) of us. My HS accuracy, and total accuracy have gone up. I'm able to hit people like destiny now, I'm able to grab cover without retard bullets hitting me BEHIND walls or doors, I'm able to get away from lotto ass lagger nades. Many other reasons why it's better, but I don't want max to get his panties in a bunch more then they already are.

Last edited by Tragic on Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.

[Jun1oR]



<Jun1oR> for example the other day, b007y was kneeling in a doorway not moving at all and I fired alomst 10 shots into his back and he just turned around and killed me with ease. Server reported he had 127hp remaining
<Jun1oR> I asked him if he took any damage and he replied no

Quick question/s (dont ban me i just wanted to ask a simple question).

1. Have you re-enacted the above scenario since unlag has been turned off?
2. Boo7y has/had been lagging lately (glitch mentioned it on the server the other day) could of contributed to the above.
3. Crouch hitboxes in rtcw has always been an issue. If someone knows the command to show them (like etpro - https://enemyterritorytips.wordpress.co ... ip-report/)

I would like to demonstrate the hitboxes issue raised on point 3

Apologies for posting again i just wanted to clear some of the findings/issues raised.

P.S there is a source file in this DL for Shrubmod 3-1-1b http://wolfenstein4ever.de/index.php/do ... mod-3-1-1b

You will not get banned for posting if you stay on topic, keep it civil, and listen to the admins. This goes for everyone.

This is not about b007y or anyone in particular.

ECGN server runs a more recent version of shrubmod. Version 3.2 Test 5.

[pingrage]

I'm not trying to indicate that it's about booty.

I was just suggesting that if you are doing an experiment you test the same scenario over and over but changing the variables.

So the scenario (the shooting of booty) and the variables (server settings changing)

Would give the best result of your theory regarding unlag causing hit registration issues.

[S.Shooter]

So yeah. Read the thread in full.

Have had problems with my game, dunno why, almost formated comp this weekend. So i missed out on the antilag thing. But i bought the game on Steam instead. This was saturday.
Many hours later of troubleshooting... yeah really. (didn't get it to work for 3 days. Patched it to 1.42c, still no joy on MP. Turns out i had too many maps in my main folder)

I'm on the server today. Tried it out.
So i need to put hitsound on, some timenudge just to get/see/hear some reg. And i get 31%acc as Axis and ok headshots. That is close quarters.
As Allieds 20%acc. 4%on the headshots. I'm used to aim way better on ECGn.

It feels like i'm playing on a US OSP server atm. And most of the guys saying - hey this is good now - are playing on those OSP nights that are really popular now twice a week.. This is shrub.

IMO - Unlag on. You can aim on the target. And all the negatives besides. (shot round the corner etc, yeah we higher pingers gets that too) I think it is the most FAIR for all the pingers, beeing the last server alive.

[Arachnyd_]

So yeah. Read the thread in full.

Have had problems with my game, dunno why, almost formated comp this weekend. So i missed out on the antilag thing. But i bought the game on Steam instead. This was saturday.
Many hours later of troubleshooting... yeah really. (didn't get it to work for 3 days. Patched it to 1.42c, still no joy on MP. Turns out i had too many maps in my main folder)

I'm on the server today. Tried it out.
So i need to put hitsound on, some timenudge just to get/see/hear some reg. And i get 31%acc as Axis and ok headshots. That is close quarters.
As Allieds 20%acc. 4%on the headshots. I'm used to aim way better on ECGn.

It feels like i'm playing on a US OSP server atm. And most of the guys saying - hey this is good now - are playing on those OSP nights that are really popular now twice a week.. This is shrub.

IMO - Unlag on. You can aim on the target. And all the negatives besides. (shot round the corner etc, yeah we higher pingers gets that too) I think it is the most FAIR for all the pingers, beeing the last server alive.

Anyone making comparisons between their accuracy percentage with unlag on vs. off is missing the point. Unlag dramatically skews accuracy so it reports much higher than what is ought to be. It somehow does this while also making hits not register so it feels like your target is a bullet sponge. Don't ask me how that happens, but its pretty indisputable at this point.

[pingrage]

I have read the documentation you posted and it doesn't mean that unlag isn't flawed.... Shrub is a beta and we do not have the source to look over or update.

http://ioquake3.org/files/unlagged-2.01-src-gpl.zip

[S.Shooter]

Anyone making comparisons between their accuracy percentage with unlag on vs. off is missing the point. Unlag dramatically skews accuracy so it reports much higher than what is ought to be. It somehow does this while also making hits not register so it feels like your target is a bullet sponge. Don't ask me how that happens, but its pretty indisputable at this point.

I've been on this server since 2004. I know when i hit the targets, and the accuracy(stats) and feeling atm. Confirms it.

This is me trying hard. Sober(for those who knows me) http://stats.ecgnetwork.co/rtcwstats/pl ... C930&key=1
I can't agree with what you are saying there.

[Arachnyd_]

Anyone making comparisons between their accuracy percentage with unlag on vs. off is missing the point. Unlag dramatically skews accuracy so it reports much higher than what is ought to be. It somehow does this while also making hits not register so it feels like your target is a bullet sponge. Don't ask me how that happens, but its pretty indisputable at this point.

I've been on this server since 2004. I know when i hit the targets, and the accuracy(stats) and feeling atm. Confirms it

If you have been used to the feeling of Shrub's unlag code since 2004 you probably didn't even realize something is wrong. When I first found ECGN back in 2009, I hadn't played RTCW in 4 years. The experience was so different I was immediately questioning what was going on with the hit registration.

[el maxicano]

Please lets not start a flame war and call people names.

We have already ran the server with unlag disabled and antilag enabled. MAA is now running the server with both disabled. The votes make complete sense.

Some of you seem to be stuck on this whole "its easier to kill high pingers now" thing but if you bother to read the thread then you would realize that its easier to kill EVERYONE now regardless of ping. Most likely due to the fact that our shots are actually registering more consistently. This is NOT about high pingers(or boo7y).

You guys keep saying unlag enabled is "fair" for all but its not fair to all of us, just as its not fair to all of us to disable unlag. The ones that are voting for unlag disabled realize this. The whole point of this thread is to address the issue and find a compromise for all.

The late damage thing is annoying but I think we can live with that if that was the only side effect of unlag but its not. I have also shown a few posts back how late damage can be a problem.

Explain to me how having only x amount of my bullets actually count towards to hitting their target is fair for me or any of us? I'm glad with unlag you dont have to lead your target but that doesn't work for me because I can tear the back of your head up and have it cause little or no damage. Why does it take so many bullets for me to kill someone? Oh that's right I suck....

I was just calling Tragic out on his insults towards me & others and for his clueless comments regarding antilag.

Anyway, since i can at least have a reasonable discussion with you Junior, i'll try to get into your points.

I have been keeping a rather close eye on the unlag / antilag server settings of ECGN lately since this forum thread began. Antilag was enabled for about 1-2 days and for the period after there was no form of lag compensation. I guess it's because MAA is smart enough to know that RTCW antilag is garbage and that no form of lag compensation would at least be better than antilag.

Quite a few votes for antilag are based on experiences of the last few days, Tragic even specifically says so in his post to praise the mighty antilag (LOL). If he realized he was playing on a "no unlag / no antilag" server, it seems logical to me that he would have voted for "unlag off / antilag off". Yet no votes have been cast for this option as of yet. I think there are more misinformed votes like that. If thats the case, the lead for the unlag option would be even bigger.

I disagree with you when you state: "its easier to kill EVERYONE now regardless of ping". Thats only the case for you and other low pingers. Ask any players with 100 ping or above and they will contradict your statement. You're too much focused on your own FPS experience. And i can understand that from a player perspective, but as an admin you have to make a decision where you take into consideration the experience of all the players on the server and sometimes have to reach a compromise.

Unlag is the best compromise RTCW has to offer. Even if it's true that no unlag causes better hit registration for low ping players than with unlag (this is not a proven fact btw, i hear contradicting statements from different low ping players), you have to realize that the downsides of going from no unlag to unlag for lowping players are far smaller than for high ping players to go from unlag to no unlag.

It also comes to my point of fairness, because even with unlag, the conditions for high ping players are not ideal. But they are at least on par with what low ping players will experience, so players on the same skill level have an equal chance of killing eachother.

Maybe you should use a VPN service that routes your connection to Asia and back to experience the high ping yourself without unlag, then you might understand how much of a disadvantage those players are experiencing under the current conditions with no lag compensation.

I am not saying you suck and there could be many explanations for the situation you explained above. As you probably well know there is bulletspread in RTCW, playermodels do not perfectly align with the hitboxes (especially when crouched, as pingrage said), temporary connection issues (for example packetloss) to the server and so on. From what i've read on unlag is that players with an unstable connection to the server experience more issues. Even though your ping is low, it could still fluctuate alot around a low average. So you could look into that, close as many background programs as possible that use your internet connection, might consider getting a different ISP / router (depends on how far you want to test it out :)).

Also, if you do really think that the situation you describe happens on a consistent basis with unlag on, then by all means make a demo of it and post it on the forums. Then we at least have some proof to look at, to convince me and others of the downsides of unlag.

[Jun1oR]

Please lets not start a flame war and call people names.

We have already ran the server with unlag disabled and antilag enabled. MAA is now running the server with both disabled. The votes make complete sense.

Some of you seem to be stuck on this whole "its easier to kill high pingers now" thing but if you bother to read the thread then you would realize that its easier to kill EVERYONE now regardless of ping. Most likely due to the fact that our shots are actually registering more consistently. This is NOT about high pingers(or boo7y).

You guys keep saying unlag enabled is "fair" for all but its not fair to all of us, just as its not fair to all of us to disable unlag. The ones that are voting for unlag disabled realize this. The whole point of this thread is to address the issue and find a compromise for all.

The late damage thing is annoying but I think we can live with that if that was the only side effect of unlag but its not. I have also shown a few posts back how late damage can be a problem.

Explain to me how having only x amount of my bullets actually count towards to hitting their target is fair for me or any of us? I'm glad with unlag you dont have to lead your target but that doesn't work for me because I can tear the back of your head up and have it cause little or no damage. Why does it take so many bullets for me to kill someone? Oh that's right I suck....

I was just calling Tragic out on his insults towards me & others and for his clueless comments regarding antilag.

Anyway, since i can at least have a reasonable discussion with you Junior, i'll try to get into your points.

I have been keeping a rather close eye on the unlag / antilag server settings of ECGN lately since this forum thread began. Antilag was enabled for about 1-2 days and for the period after there was no form of lag compensation. I guess it's because MAA is smart enough to know that RTCW antilag is garbage and that no form of lag compensation would at least be better than antilag.

Quite a few votes for antilag are based on experiences of the last few days, Tragic even specifically says so in his post to praise the mighty antilag (LOL). If he realized he was playing on a "no unlag / no antilag" server, it seems logical to me that he would have voted for "unlag off / antilag off". Yet no votes have been cast for this option as of yet. I think there are more misinformed votes like that. If thats the case, the lead for the unlag option would be even bigger.

I disagree with you when you state: "its easier to kill EVERYONE now regardless of ping". Thats only the case for you and other low pingers. Ask any players with 100 ping or above and they will contradict your statement. You're too much focused on your own FPS experience. And i can understand that from a player perspective, but as an admin you have to make a decision where you take into consideration the experience of all the players on the server and sometimes have to reach a compromise.

Unlag is the best compromise RTCW has to offer. Even if it's true that no unlag causes better hit registration for low ping players than with unlag (this is not a proven fact btw, i hear contradicting statements from different low ping players), you have to realize that the downsides of going from no unlag to unlag for lowping players are far smaller than for high ping players to go from unlag to no unlag.

It also comes to my point of fairness, because even with unlag, the conditions for high ping players are not ideal. But they are at least on par with what low ping players will experience, so players on the same skill level have an equal chance of killing eachother.

Maybe you should use a VPN service that routes your connection to Asia and back to experience the high ping yourself without unlag, then you might understand how much of a disadvantage those players are experiencing under the current conditions with no lag compensation.

I am not saying you suck and there could be many explanations for the situation you explained above. As you probably well know there is bulletspread in RTCW, playermodels do not perfectly align with the hitboxes (especially when crouched, as pingrage said), temporary connection issues (for example packetloss) to the server and so on. From what i've read on unlag is that players with an unstable connection to the server experience more issues. Even though your ping is low, it could still fluctuate alot around a low average. So you could look into that, close as many background programs as possible that use your internet connection, might consider getting a different ISP / router (depends on how far you want to test it out :)).

Also, if you do really think that the situation you describe happens on a consistent basis with unlag on, then by all means make a demo of it and post it on the forums. Then we at least have some proof to look at, to convince me and others of the downsides of unlag.

You guys just don't get it and are trying every possible way to tell me and others that unlag does not cause the inconsistent hit registration problems that I have pointed out. To be honest Man-at-Arms doesn't even believe me and that's fine. I probably wouldn't believe me either if I didn't experience it for myself. I have already asked MAA to return the server to normal. When this happens I will demo it for all to see but I'm sure you will still find excuses to tell me its all in my head.

I understand the current settings make it hard for players with high pings to play on the server but for me and whomever else is affected by this it's just as hard if not harder. Only difference is there's nothing we can do to compensate this. I have tried everything to reproduce this and adjust to this but how can I adjust to something like inconsistent hit registration?

[Boo7y]

Hello all,

I want to say for the beach server settings I can definitely tell that the registration shooting has changed. I can still hit people, but for some reason it doesn't register like I used to play on smokeherb/Ganja for shrub. Those servers did not use unlag either. For those 98-115 pingers you're going to lose a lot of people for your server. I enjoy having everyone playing and having a solid time. My shot is different... I personally don't care if it's on or off, but to keep ECGN rolling I would consider having it on. I understand USA is going to be happy about this, but ECGN has people all around the world. I have not been on for a few days have you lost players at peak game time?

[pixi]

I know this isn't going to add anything to the thread... But I'm scared now because the vote is not going in a good direction. I'm not going to be able to kill anyone again. :/