Why is the U.S. so full of non-believers?

by **Jim0322** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:15 pm

I got this from CNN. It is interesting.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/10/28/science.debate.reut/index.html

Polls for many years have shown that a majority of Americans are at odds with key scientific theory...

-51 percent of respondents believed humans were created in their present form by God. A further 30 percent said their creation was guided by God. Only 15 percent thought humans evolved from less advanced life forms over millions of years.

-only around a third of American adults accept the Big Bang theory of the origin of the universe, even though the concept is virtually uncontested by scientists worldwide.

"When we ask people what they know about science, just under 20 percent turn out to be scientifically literate," said Jon Miller, director of the center for biomedical communication at Northwestern University.

_________________________________________________________

I went to a lecture about intelligent design and was surprised to learn that the USA populace is really far less educated & accepting of science than the rest of the modern world. Our views on science much more closely resemble a third world country than a modern nation. We are a nation of non-believers.

by **cavalierlwt** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:27 pm

The US is very litigious (tons of lawyers mean lawsuits at the drop of a hat), which mean teachers walk on eggshells when they teach any form of science that might piss a parent off and cause them to sue the school. So you have a teacher standing up there saying, "maybe, just a theory, one guy's opinion that possibly, perhaps, organism's evolve over time. Or not. Who knows. Just a thought. PLEASE DON'T SUE ME!!!"
People can't disagree and go their own way these days. Don't agree with the science department of the High School, sue them and shut it down. Don't like a certain book (Lord of the Flies?) sue the school and make them remove it. Don't like the TV show, don't change the channel, sue the station and get it removed. A certain segment fantasizes of taking us straight back to the 1950s, or maybe the 1650s.

by **Hat Rack** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:55 pm

Evolution is a THEORY!!! It has never been proven, and is usally being disproven more and more. For instance they now know that the "chart" we have all come to know, of the different human like species walking in a line slowly forming into modern man is bullshit. They now know that many of those creatures lived at the same time. Hard to evolve into something that all ready exists. Now if you chose to believe in the bible that is your choice, but having complete faith in scientific Theory is not to smart.

by **Jim0322** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:08 pm

There is this thing known as the theory of gravity too. It is not fact. Eventually we may come to learn more about it but just like evolution, it is the theory with the most scientific evidence supporting it. Science is based on observable and measurable data.

"Gravity is the force of attraction between massive particles. Weight is determined by the mass of an object and its location in a gravitational field. While a great deal is known about the properties of gravity, the ultimate cause of the gravitational force remains an open question. "

by **EZC** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:10 pm

Originally posted by Hat Rack
Evolution is a THEORY!!! It has never been proven, and is usally being disproven more and more. For instance they now know that the "chart" we have all come to know, of the different human like species walking in a line slowly forming into modern man is bullshit. They now know that many of those creatures lived at the same time. Hard to evolve into something that all ready exists. Now if you chose to believe in the bible that is your choice, but having complete faith in scientific Theory is not to smart.

Neither is having blind faith in the Bible. :violin:

by **cavalierlwt** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:15 pm

No problem if you don't believe in it, to each his own. My beef with people is when they try to stop schools from teaching it. Let the schools teach evolution, if you don't believe in it, then tell your own kids it's a big lie, but let the science teachers do their job.

by **PudriK** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:17 pm

I don't think that "chart" is intended as a scientifically accurate rendition, more as a metaphor.

Actually it makes perfect sense that one population of a species, separated by geographic barriers and undergoing separate ecological forces, could evolve into a new species, while other populations remain more or less unchanged. Then you would have two species, one new, and the other its predecessor, coexisting.

Properly understood, though, we did not "evlove from monkeys." Instead, humans, apes, and monkeys all evolved from a common ancestor.

Evolution is a theory, one that has been tested, verified, and foudn to be the best explaination of observations in paleontology, genetics, behavioral biology, etc. Ask, well, the vast majority of biologists and they will tell you that modern biological theories are built upon the foundation of evolution--it is impossible to understand life without understanding how evolution played a role in its development.

Anyway, just goes to show that most Americans don't really learn much in school, even if they pass.

I think schools should be allowed to teach intelligent design. Why not, it's an alternative theory. Then, to be academically honest, talk about how decades of research backs up evolution, both in proving its mechanism and its usefulness to understanding other phenomenon Then mention how little evidence there is for intelligent design, and how as a concept it is useless for understanding other observations.

I have a theory that God made creation a second ago. Prove I'm wrong. Your memories, etc, were all part of that creation.

It's a sound theory, impossible t refute.

It's also completely useless for understanding how the universe works. That is the ultimate goal of science.

by **Jim0322** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:19 pm

Originally posted by EZC
Neither is having blind faith in the Bible.

But is doesn't have to be about religion vs science. The catholic church has a clear position on evolution. They say it does not conflict with their faith. Many people believe in god and evolution. It is just in the US there are far more people than the rest of the modern world who believe the world was created about 10,000 years ago in essentially its present state and dinosaurs lived alongside Adam & Eve.

by **cavalierlwt** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:21 pm

Intelligent design has no evidence whatsoever. Evolution at least has evidence to back it, even if it's not airtight or complete. Science goes with the best answers provided by the evidence, while leaving the door open for new evidence to change things. Intelligent design has *zilch* for evidence thus can't be taught as science. It could be taught in theology courses though.

by **PraiseA||ah** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:55 pm

Originally posted by Hat Rack
Evolution is a THEORY!!! It has never been proven, and is usally being disproven more and more. For instance they now know that the "chart" we have all come to know, of the different human like species walking in a line slowly forming into modern man is bullshit. They now know that many of those creatures lived at the same time. Hard to evolve into something that all ready exists. Now if you chose to believe in the bible that is your choice, but having complete faith in scientific Theory is not to smart.

Pudrik is correct. The line is not meant as a litteral thing. It is a reprensentation. If you like, think of it more like a tree with different branches being different species but with all primates/apes/homo sapiens represented by the same tree. At some point in the distant past we shared a common ancestor but there is no direct link or line from ape to human as we're each on different branches of that tree. The branches split off and even closer hominids may not be in a direct line but are most likely 'cousins' who share an as yet undiscovered ancestral species.
Evolution happens - there really is no other explanation for it. If you believe it isn't true - well, belief is impossible to argue against as it doesn't rely on facts. It relies on faith not facts and definitely not reliable scientific principle or the scientific process.
Evolution is proven because we have observed and indeed, humans have MADE it happen. We make it happen all the time. All you have to do is think of a species of something that has very short lifetimes and therefore reproduces quickly. Bacteria. Bacteria have very short lifetimes and they have been studied for a long time now. We know that there are new variations of bacteria which we bring about both knowingly and unwittingly.

by **[ecgn] btt** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:01 pm

Originally posted by Hat Rack
Evolution is a THEORY!!! It has never been proven, and is usally being disproven more and more. For instance they now know that the "chart" we have all come to know, of the different human like species walking in a line slowly forming into modern man is bullshit. They now know that many of those creatures lived at the same time. Hard to evolve into something that all ready exists. Now if you chose to believe in the bible that is your choice, but having complete faith in scientific Theory is not to smart.

Disproven more and more. This is not a bad thing. One good thing about science is, it will correct itself. I got my money on the thing that challenges what is right and attempts to make sure they are right. Instead of one book that has no right or wrong but just is.

by **Sir Loin** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:03 pm

believe what you want, just dont try to push it on to others. Those little shitheads wearing a white shirt and a tie that come knocking at your door, need a serious beatdown.

by **SavageParrot** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:23 pm

Evolution is only a theory because there isn't enough data to categorically prove it. What data there is all tallies with the broad basis of the theory. I find the fact that it remains a theory comforting in that theories are free to adapt and mold based on new evidence. So called facts invariably have to keep their title by surpressing anything that disagrees.

Evolution doesn't disprove the existence of god it just proves that the history recounted in the bible is not accurate. The principle of evolution is that through random mutation one species will evolve to become better adapted eventually t the point where it constitutes a different species. I'd say that these mutations as they are called are as good proof as any of the guiding hand of a higher being.

As for the line in my estimation it was a tool to help break the theory into the public consciousness. As a historical recod of the theory it's interestng but it's clearly not accurate.

by **CodeRed68** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:45 pm

Hello ! We have fossil records and factual evidence of organisms transitioning through time and evolving into the animals (and yes, humans) they are today. Prehistoric man is the perfect example of this. We have the sculls showing the brain cavity growing through time as we used this muscle more and more, becoming more intelligent.

by **[ecgn] btt** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:48 pm

"I'd say that these mutations as they are called are as good proof as any of the guiding hand of a higher being. "

I think these mutations are just about odds. With the amount of times a gene is coppied any given day. The odds are one of those copies will mutate and be benifical to the species. Nothing to do with a guiding hand. The only thing proven is that one in a billion will happen.

Why is the U.S. so full of non-believers?

Why is the U.S. so full of non-believers?

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