Muslim Children Taught to Behead

Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:00 pm

Originally posted by Pierce
(those of them that were in on it).

indeed. so many people out there are quick to generalize the whole country and call the french population, in general, Saddam sympathizers.

the same can be said about many other people calling americans "war mongerers". Anyone with common sense should know that the actions of a government are not always reflections of how everyone in the country feels.

Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:00 pm

Shockwave you made an absolute moral judgement. I am questioning that. And you seem to think that I am bloodthirsty and desire wanton death and destruction. I mean sure it's fun and all but you can't base a foreign policy on it.

You yourself are putting peoples lives at risks every time you get behind the wheel. You have absolutely no control over who or what gets bombed by anyone on the other side of the world. Yet you are willing to endanger yourself, families, friends and neighbors with no qualms whatsoever. From your attitude it would be safer to be an Iraqi than your next door neighbor. You care more for them evidently. You seem to have a great deal of concern for people you don't even know on the other side of the world in situations which you have no control over. Does the moral equivocation not bother you?

Here's a scenario for you to think about. You don't even have to respond just cogitate upon it.

Viet Nam, pick a year when our troops were there. Little kids were trained by the NVA and VC to approach our troops with an offer for soda, a shoeshine, or to beg for candy and then set off a hand grenade. You see a 8 year old approaching with a hand grenade. What would you do? Do you think your moral judgement would outweigh your desire to live?

I've changed my mind and would like you to answer this if you are willing. No equivocating about the justness of the war. Just answer the question if you would.

And I can understand you thinking I was implying something along the lines of "oh well shit happens" I hope I clarified that. This post is merely a response pointing out you say the same thing about traffic fatalities. I fail to see a difference between my level of concern of the deaths of innocents over there and your level of indifference to innocents that die in another manner. The moral ambiguity escapes me.

Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:17 pm

Originally posted by Colonel Ingus
Shockwave you made an absolute moral judgement. I am questioning that. And you seem to think that I am bloodthirsty and desire wanton death and destruction. I mean sure it's fun and all but you can't base a foreign policy on it.

You yourself are putting peoples lives at risks every time you get behind the wheel. You have absolutely no control over who or what gets bombed by anyone on the other side of the world. Yet you are willing to endanger yourself, families, friends and neighbors with no qualms whatsoever. From your attitude it would be safer to be an Iraqi than your next door neighbor. You care more for them evidently. You seem to have a great deal of concern for people you don't even know on the other side of the world in situations which you have no control over. Does the moral equivocation not bother you?

Like I said in my earlier post, people have the choice of whether or not to get into a vehicle and drive. When you get into a car, you are taking a risk. The people in Iraq don't have that option. They can't choose between being safe, or risk have a bomb landing on their head. Two completely different matters, because there is a choice.

you said it yourself. I have no control of who gets bombed on the other side of the world. Iraqi citizens don't have that choice either. Yet I, you, your family and your friends have the choice of whether or not to risk driving in a vehicle. That is the difference.

The only reason I started discussing children in Iraq was because of your post saying you wouldn't shed a tear and that people should think of these little shits the next time women and children are killed. It's not that I care for them more, as you put it. You made a post and I replied. Simple as that.

I've changed my mind and would like you to answer this if you are willing. No equivocating about the justness of the war. Just answer the question if you would.

My desire to live would outweigh my moral judgement. If shooting the child in the foot or arm to stop the grenade from coming any closer to me was not an option, I would kill the child.

My point was not about how innocent people dying could be easily avoided, but how people in this thread stated that the deaths of children in Iraq, innocent children that do not pose a threat, didn't bother them, and that in fact the innocent children in the video should be killed.

Those are two different issues

Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:31 pm

The nine year strapped into the back seat of the car didn't have any choice did he? and yet he is at as much risk as the person who made the decision to put him in the car. And you and the child's parent make that decision for him whenever you are both on the road at the same time.

There is something of a comparison to be made here between that nine year old in the backseat and the insurgent that would fill a building full of explosives to be used to kill anyone who opposes them and then place women and children there as a type of shield to protect it. He didn't make the decision to be in the back of the car and neither did those women and children.

Interesting moral question isn't it? I hope to god nothing bad ever happens to you and your children but when you have kids and put them in a car seat aren't you making the same decision for them?

But you are correct in one way. There is a difference. The nine year strapped in the back of the car is in no way being trained to behead people as a future career.

So think about "choice".

Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:44 pm

The children in Iraq being used as a 'human shield' are not that different than our own children we put in the backseat of our cars, like you said, but would you say "I wouldn't shed a tear" when someone runs a red and kills a van load of children?

Wed Jun 30, 2004 7:08 pm

Bad scenario . You got a few issues .

Wed Jun 30, 2004 7:08 pm

To be completely honest I probably wouldn't shed a tear, however I wouldn't celebrate either. I don't think it makes me a bad person, just human. I am sorry about it but right now as I type this someone just died in a car wreck. When you type your response in someone else will have also.

Like most people I am somewhat desensitized to my fellow man. Now if it was someone I knew or cared about it would have a great effect upon me. But I think you and I do the same thing in going through an ordinary day. If we as a species were overly sensitized towards others in that way we would be unable to function.

I assume you, like myself, am perfectly capable of going to work, eating dinner, going out to a sports bar and cheering an overpaid egocentric athlete without being consumed by greif with the ethnic cleansings that are going on in the Sudan and neighboring nations. or the rampant Islamic terrorism and assasinations going on in former soviet republics, or the murders that occur everywhere every minute of everyday.

I don't glory in them. I don't celebrate them. I don't even like them or feel good about them. But I do have to accept them and get on with my life.

Can you see the point I am trying to make.

Wed Jun 30, 2004 7:31 pm

yes, and it certainly looks a lot different that your first few posts in this thread, which is good.

Wed Jun 30, 2004 7:59 pm

We should kidnap the clerics from Egypt Pakistan, etc that preach all the violence, beam a video feed to the arab world of these clerics ranting and raving (before they were kidnapped by us) and then give them a nice clear videoclip of the clerics getting their heads sawed off. The arabs don't mind seeing each other get 'martyrd' but they are pretty touchy where their holy men are concerned.

Also, a little side note: Did you ever notice how many people start off a conversation about the beheadings with "Now I don't condone what those people did, but......" and everything after 'but' is a whole bunch of condoning and excusing the beheadings? Listen to how often Arabs, including Arab-Americans start their sentence this way.

Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:13 pm

Instead of bombs, drop some condoms, maybe a doctor or 2 to tie some tubes.........just a thought:D

Thu Jul 01, 2004 7:36 am

Originally posted by cavalierlwt
We should kidnap the clerics from Egypt Pakistan, etc that preach all the violence, beam a video feed to the arab world of these clerics ranting and raving (before they were kidnapped by us) and then give them a nice clear videoclip of the clerics getting their heads sawed off. The arabs don't mind seeing each other get 'martyrd' but they are pretty touchy where their holy men are concerned.

Also, a little side note: Did you ever notice how many people start off a conversation about the beheadings with "Now I don't condone what those people did, but......" and everything after 'but' is a whole bunch of condoning and excusing the beheadings? Listen to how often Arabs, including Arab-Americans start their sentence this way.

You have some major issues.

Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:17 am

Originally posted by cavalierlwt
We should kidnap the clerics from Egypt Pakistan, etc that preach all the violence, beam a video feed to the arab world of these clerics ranting and raving (before they were kidnapped by us) and then give them a nice clear videoclip of the clerics getting their heads sawed off. The arabs don't mind seeing each other get 'martyrd' but they are pretty touchy where their holy men are concerned.

Also, a little side note: Did you ever notice how many people start off a conversation about the beheadings with "Now I don't condone what those people did, but......" and everything after 'but' is a whole bunch of condoning and excusing the beheadings? Listen to how often Arabs, including Arab-Americans start their sentence this way.

And this would solve things how...?

By being just as barbaric?

Thu Jul 01, 2004 11:08 am

Allrighty! Lets get this party started!

yes, and it certainly looks a lot different that your first few posts in this thread, which is good.

Actually no. Its pretty much the same thing I said earlier but tailored into a language that you agree with. Basically we have established that I have very little regard for human life. You would seem to be the same way as you appear to be able to function on a daily basis without going cathartic.

BUT WAIT, you, my good sir, evidently place value on Human life differently according to your political beliefs.

Here's 3 links to threads here about hostages taken, and some beheaded, all posted within the last few weeks. Ironically enough there is video of these brutal acts available and the kids in the link on this thread are acting it out.

http://forums.powervs.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10274

http://forums.powervs.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10198

http://forums.powervs.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10148

Why shockwave! I am somewhat confused here! Where's the moral indignation? wheres the "disgust"? Why you never even posted on any of those threads! What could possible be the reason behind this? By your silence we won't automatically assume you approve of those actions but we can't help but to wonder why it doesn't bother you as much as my not caring if those "little shits" in the video die. Could there be a different reason behind your silence? I wonder what it could be?

(JimmyT this is your cue)

Typical bleeding heart liberal ploy. "The children, Save the Children, I am doing it for the children" By way implying that your opposition doesn't care for the children. Best to stick with the tried and true method. You are "disgusted" by my evident lack of concern for these poor little waifs. By the way we have no idea who these kids are but you instantly made the assumption that they are orphans and the evil American policy of Imperial expansion cost them their parents with our indiscriminate bombing!

Evidently you are placing a higher value on the life of little terrorists in training than you do for innocent victims that are beheaded by their "cultural heroes". The ones training those poor little children of yours. Nice to know that you are valuing human life based upon your political preferences.

Now we have basically concluded that I value all human life equally, you might even argue at little value, but I value them all the same. You however place more value based upon your political ideology. Individual merit or intrinsic worth isn't important to you. Just ones that back up your political point of view.

Frankly, I find that disgusting.