When is this madness going to stop?

by **rust** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:14 pm

Originally posted by shockwave203
Thanks Jimmy, for being the only person here who actually understood what I was trying to say.

And thats a good thing...

by **shockwave203** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:19 pm

Originally posted by Face
Don't you think those same people were asking themselves why their loved ones were dragged from home, beaten, tortured, and thrown into mass graves for 35 years? Do you REALLY think the Iraqia are so ignorant?

Acutally, yes. some of them are. you watch TV, you see Iraqi's blaming Americans for the deaths of their family members.

I however, was not blaming americans. I was stating that many of them don't understand what the US has done, and instead they choose to blame american soldiers.

If that's assigning blame to Americans, please tell me how. Or you could just continue to go off on some tangeant and bitch about some point I wasn't even making.

Your decision.

by **shockwave203** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:20 pm

Originally posted by rust
And thats a good thing...

yes, it is. Unlike many of you, Jimmy has a sense of understanding about how other people feel around the world. He doesn't have the "we're better than you, so you can shove it" mentality many people here have.

by **Mutant Enemy** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:31 pm

Originally posted by JimmyTango
Sorry mutant, it doesn't matter, at least according to the rules we govern ourselves by and want iraq to adopt.

Two wrongs do not make a right. Ok, screw the pot thing. They find kid porn all over your house when they went in there with fake evidence for another crime.

Ok or not?

Also, read the intelligence report. It was extremely flawed, simple as that.

If they didn't ever have WMDs then why didn't they let the UN inspectors into the country for the longest time? They finally did after how many years and how many times the UN "demanded" its inspectors access?

What do you mean by it doesn't matter? That no matter what us expeling Saddam was wrong and he should have been left in power?

I am not trying to argue that the evidence was bad. That is a given. I am saying that Iraq is better off without Saddam in power, nor the then-future Hussein sons (who were almost as bad as Saddam).

You and I have enjoyed the freedom to debate like this all our lives (I am assuming you have as well, if not then I apologize here and now). The Iraqi people, for the first time in a long time, have the power to voice their opinions.

By using violence though, the Insurgents are responsible for more than just American deaths. There are many Iraqi's who are innocent killed by them. Not only that but they were targeting the newly elected Iraqi government for assassination. The Insurgents want nothing more than their original way of life- dictatorship. They want that only becuase they were the only beneficiaries to the Ba'ath government under Hussein.

by **Mutant Enemy** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:34 pm

Originally posted by shockwave203
yes, it is. Unlike many of you, Jimmy has a sense of understanding about how other people feel around the world. He doesn't have the "we're better than you, so you can shove it" mentality many people here have.

I don't have that at all, shockwave. Just because I am debating that Iraq is better off without Saddam does not mean I think the rest of the world can "shove it." There is a difference in ideologies.

It's a fine line to tread these days. Either you are seen as a warmonger who thinks nothing of his fellow man or you are seen as an anti-American who is too pacifist for his/her own good. Debates like this are a good thing, neither anti-American or selfish. Debates like this lead to the Revolution.

As long as each side respects one another then this type of communication is excellent. It is when people start slandering others that the debate forum turns into a propaganda tool (as used by Hitler).

I do not think I am better than anyone else. I have my opinion and am expressing it calmly. Jimmy is expressing his opinions calmly as well, which is why I respond to him. I don't think any less of him and I hope he doesn't think less of me either.

by **shockwave203** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:46 pm

mutant enemy, you seem to be able to communicate without flaming and acting like a child. I can't say that for many other people here.

Just because you think Iraq is better off because of the war does not make you have the "you can shove it" type of attitude. I was referring to the other members on these forums, who have told people repeatedly to go f*ck themselves because they had a different opinion. And they can continue to do so- I don't care. but when they wonder why other people see them as ignorant, they shouldn't be wondering "why?"

by **shockwave203** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:49 pm

Originally posted by Mutant Enemy
I'm sorry I don't see how I am either flaming or acting as a child. I'm not calling anyone names nor am I bashing anyone's views.

i think you should re-read my post

by **Mutant Enemy** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:51 pm

Sorry about that! Color me stupid :oP

by **shockwave203** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:51 pm

lol mutant enemy, I said you are someone who doesn't flame or act like a child

by **Mutant Enemy** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:52 pm

Yeah I just read that. Sorry for the miscommunication on my part Shockwave!

EDIT: I deleted my posts, except the apologies

by **shockwave203** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:54 pm

hehe no worries

by **Sewer-Urchin** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:01 pm

Originally posted by Folic_Acid
Which report is that, Jimmy? The Senate Intelligence Committee's report that confirms the President's claim that Iraq was seeking yellowcake from Niger, or the 9/11 Commission report that confirms the same thing? I've got both sitting here on my desk, if you need to borrow either of them.

by **JimmyTango** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:58 pm

Originally posted by Mutant Enemy
If they didn't ever have WMDs then why didn't they let the UN inspectors into the country for the longest time? They finally did after how many years and how many times the UN "demanded" its inspectors access?

What do you mean by it doesn't matter? That no matter what us expeling Saddam was wrong and he should have been left in power?

I am not trying to argue that the evidence was bad. That is a given. I am saying that Iraq is better off without Saddam in power, nor the then-future Hussein sons (who were almost as bad as Saddam).

Iraq is of course better, I have and will never say otherwise. Saddam needed to be taken out of power long ago, and shoudl never of been placed in power in the first place.

He is just one in a long list of the USA's policy of putting a bastard into power and saying 'he is a bastard, but god damn, he is OUR bastard!' Then, that bastard gets egg thrown on America's face or goes against American interests one too many times(slant oil drilling leads to Kuwait invasion, hurting American companies) and then he becomes our enemy.

The problem I have is that our country's morals are being overlooked because of an outcome, and so many are happily brushing them aside. Two wrongs do not make a right. Anti-American is not saying this was wrong, anti-American is brushing away part of what makes us American because of an outcome.

by **Ryan** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:54 pm

Couldn't even go a full page without flaming in this one.

Closing.

When is this madness going to stop?

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