Wed Mar 26, 2003 10:12 am
I don't want the regime that Saddam has in Iraq... but i don't wonna change it by the use of war...
but remember: war isn't the ONLY way to solve it...
for example... we could help to solve all the economic disasters in the middle-east and gice Iraq a chance to have a better welfare also instead of only doing this for Israel and country's that support the war (what makes all the other country's only more angry) and as counter-claim we ask Saddam to respect human rights etc... that would be a big step in the good direction
i think you all now its easier to solve something with a friend then with an enemy...
BUt... unfortunatly Bush hasn't even money left to rebuild Iraq what i think is the biggest prove he doesn't cares about those people...
the world is bad for people and there are too much people that think that's a reasson to be bad to other people also...
when you don't want a car to hit you... you let him drive by before you walk over the street...
when you don't want to be hurt by a person, you don't give that person a reasson to hurt you...
people should think more like that...
(and if you say i think like a child... why do they say "as innocent as an unborn child"... )
but remember: war isn't the ONLY way to solve it...
for example... we could help to solve all the economic disasters in the middle-east and gice Iraq a chance to have a better welfare also instead of only doing this for Israel and country's that support the war (what makes all the other country's only more angry) and as counter-claim we ask Saddam to respect human rights etc... that would be a big step in the good direction
i think you all now its easier to solve something with a friend then with an enemy...
BUt... unfortunatly Bush hasn't even money left to rebuild Iraq what i think is the biggest prove he doesn't cares about those people...
the world is bad for people and there are too much people that think that's a reasson to be bad to other people also...
when you don't want a car to hit you... you let him drive by before you walk over the street...
when you don't want to be hurt by a person, you don't give that person a reasson to hurt you...
people should think more like that...
(and if you say i think like a child... why do they say "as innocent as an unborn child"... )
Wed Mar 26, 2003 10:37 am
Originally posted by [WEF]Herr Renz
(and if you say i think like a child... why do they say "as innocent as an unborn child"... )
Maybe it's the whole language difference thing, but I can't even understand what you mean.
"As innocent as an uborn child" implies that the individual knows nothing about the world or has a fantasy view about it. An unborn child has no knowledge of the outside world, he/she isn't even in it yet. This phrase could also mean that the individual is naive.
na·ive or na·ïve
1. Lacking worldly experience and understanding, especially:
a. Simple and guileless; artless: a child with a naive charm.
b. Unsuspecting or credulous: “Students, often bright but naive, betand losesubstantial sums of money on sporting events” (Tim Layden).
2. Showing or characterized by a lack of sophistication and critical judgment: “this extravagance of metaphors, with its naive bombast” (H.L. Mencken).
3.
a. Not previously subjected to experiments: testing naive mice.
b. Not having previously taken or received a particular drug: persons naive to marijuana
Wed Mar 26, 2003 10:44 am
"as innocent as a child" if you like that better... that's the way they say it in dutch but in my dictionary it says unborn child so... maybe to sat someone really young...
happy now? i mean with it... children aren't yet thinking the way of "world is bad for me, so i'm bad for the world..."
happy now? i mean with it... children aren't yet thinking the way of "world is bad for me, so i'm bad for the world..."
Wed Mar 26, 2003 10:49 am
Originally posted by [WEF]Herr Renz
happy now? i mean with it... children aren't yet thinking the way of "world is bad for me, so i'm bad for the world..."
Oh, ok quick poll. Who here thinks the world sucks and therefore is a prick to everyone because of it? I know this isn't the way I think.
I do think the world sucks, I don't try to piss everyone off because of it. Life sucks, I accept this and don't try and make it suck even more for others.
Wed Mar 26, 2003 10:58 am
Xenius, why do you take statements so direct? it is a "Figure of speaking..."
i don't mean the world sux, not at all... i mean that for some people feel like someone is bad for them so they think that gives them the right to be bad for them... with "the world" i just mean someone else... anything to tell about the topic?
i don't mean the world sux, not at all... i mean that for some people feel like someone is bad for them so they think that gives them the right to be bad for them... with "the world" i just mean someone else... anything to tell about the topic?
Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:03 am
What I took from your statement was that the US thinks, the world is bad for us, so we're going to be bad for the world.
Say what you mean, mean what you say.
Say what you mean, mean what you say.
Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:30 am
man, you are blaming me for spelling, for figures of speaking,... its a war there outside and that's a little more important...
i'm not the one that says it, but all you guys are talking: everyone hates us etc... does that mean you have to hate everyone? that's what i mean, understand it now?
and like i said so many times... there's a reasson that everyone hates america... in the 50's America was everything, they loved it, now they hate it... why? => vietnam, gulf1, afganistan, Gulf2,...
i'm not the one that says it, but all you guys are talking: everyone hates us etc... does that mean you have to hate everyone? that's what i mean, understand it now?
and like i said so many times... there's a reasson that everyone hates america... in the 50's America was everything, they loved it, now they hate it... why? => vietnam, gulf1, afganistan, Gulf2,...
Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:39 am
Originally posted by [WEF]Herr Renz
i'm not the one that says it, but all you guys are talking: everyone hates us etc... does that mean you have to hate everyone? that's what i mean, understand it now?
First, I didn't make fun of spelling.
Second, I said something about your figure of speech because I wasn't sure if you meant to say that or phrase it differently.
Third, Don't generalize. I just got done saying, like 3-4 posts ago that I don't hate everyone.
Wed Mar 26, 2003 1:25 pm
Herr Renz,
If things are so innocent in belgium, who are the people with the bombs and machine guns in your country. Oh, innocent children! LOL
If things are so innocent in belgium, who are the people with the bombs and machine guns in your country. Oh, innocent children! LOL
Wed Mar 26, 2003 1:33 pm
they are in belgium>??? chees i dont gonna walk there anymore:P
Wed Mar 26, 2003 2:19 pm
(Pardon a long post, but I can't stand willful blindness, idiocy, and foolishness)
I do not recall hearing about the Belgians, the French, or even the Germans complaining about the costs of war when British and American troops rolled through their countries during World War 2. We came to rescue the French, Belgian, and German people (among others, obviously) from the rule of a terrible, brutal, murderous dictator, and to ensure that he was no longer a threat to the world. We are now doing that with Saddam. Why the change of opinion? Do you only support war when it's you that need help?
This is so completely foolish and ridiculous that it doesn't even deserve a response.
Ah. The news. Such a reliable source of information. </sarcasm> I obtain my information from the supplemental security and defense budget that President Bush just submitted to Congress. It totals around $75 billion. Of that $75 billion, there is specified for Iraq: $3.7 billion for the rebuilding of infrastructure, $543 million for refugee assistance, $200 million for emergency food supplies, and $150 for miscellaneous assistance. That is just the American contribution. It does not include any contributions by the British, the Kuwaitis (who have already provided 200 tons of food and 100 tons of bottled water for southern Iraq), or the Belgians (if any).
What humanitarian assistance or aid has Belgium offered to any country or group recently?
If you'll notice, it's not just one person that made these reports. It's actually one person (a British Member of Parliament) writing an editorial about the reports of various human rights groups, like Indict, Human Rights Watch, and last but not least, the UN Commission on Human Rights - reports which document the oppression and torture of Saddam. If you are interested, you can read the report from the US Department of State on the condition of human rights in Iraq here.
Um... "...ask Saddam to respect human rights..?" You're kidding, right? What do you think the UN has been doing for the past twelve years? We haven't been whistling a tune or sleeping - we've been asking and demanding that Saddam change. Multiple reports and resolutions have outlined the oppression of Saddam. And in twelve years we've seen.... nothing.
Ok... The reasons for the wars mentioned above:
Is there something to which you object there?
Originally posted by [WEF]Herr Renz
who ever made more victimes i don't care... i don't know either... nobody knows... but the fact that america makes them too by fighting a war that wasn't needed makes them in anyway as guilty as Saddam...
I do not recall hearing about the Belgians, the French, or even the Germans complaining about the costs of war when British and American troops rolled through their countries during World War 2. We came to rescue the French, Belgian, and German people (among others, obviously) from the rule of a terrible, brutal, murderous dictator, and to ensure that he was no longer a threat to the world. We are now doing that with Saddam. Why the change of opinion? Do you only support war when it's you that need help?
Originally posted by [WEF]Herr Renz
(i'm not saying i like it to see Saddam ruling Iraq but i like it more that i see Bush ruling america)
This is so completely foolish and ridiculous that it doesn't even deserve a response.
Originally posted by [WEF]Herr Renz
about the money i've from the news and like you see he has only $2.5 billion left for Iraqi people...
(btw. i made a mistake in it: the last $4 billion aren't for rebuilding but for the Safty in America itself... so he hasn't ANY thing over for Iraq...)
Ah. The news. Such a reliable source of information. </sarcasm> I obtain my information from the supplemental security and defense budget that President Bush just submitted to Congress. It totals around $75 billion. Of that $75 billion, there is specified for Iraq: $3.7 billion for the rebuilding of infrastructure, $543 million for refugee assistance, $200 million for emergency food supplies, and $150 for miscellaneous assistance. That is just the American contribution. It does not include any contributions by the British, the Kuwaitis (who have already provided 200 tons of food and 100 tons of bottled water for southern Iraq), or the Belgians (if any).
Originally posted by [WEF]Herr Renz
and of course we in europe are a little better in humanity and if Bush is a too big criminel to take his responsibility to rebuild Iraq after he destroyed it we will help Iraq instead of first discussing with America for so many years... there are actually still countries that care about human lives...
What humanitarian assistance or aid has Belgium offered to any country or group recently?
Originally posted by [WEF]Herr Renz
and about the torturing... it is what one person tells... doesn't means its true... and they are talking about Saddam's youngest son being there... so it is a statement from someone that you can say "betrayed" Saddam cause it used to be a person they trusted... someone that participated in those torturings... so not really a believable person...
If you'll notice, it's not just one person that made these reports. It's actually one person (a British Member of Parliament) writing an editorial about the reports of various human rights groups, like Indict, Human Rights Watch, and last but not least, the UN Commission on Human Rights - reports which document the oppression and torture of Saddam. If you are interested, you can read the report from the US Department of State on the condition of human rights in Iraq here.
Originally posted by [WEF]Herr Renz
but remember: war isn't the ONLY way to solve it...
for example... we could help to solve all the economic disasters in the middle-east and gice Iraq a chance to have a better welfare also instead of only doing this for Israel and country's that support the war (what makes all the other country's only more angry) and as counter-claim we ask Saddam to respect human rights etc... that would be a big step in the good direction
Um... "...ask Saddam to respect human rights..?" You're kidding, right? What do you think the UN has been doing for the past twelve years? We haven't been whistling a tune or sleeping - we've been asking and demanding that Saddam change. Multiple reports and resolutions have outlined the oppression of Saddam. And in twelve years we've seen.... nothing.
Originally posted by [WEF]Herr Renz
in the 50's America was everything, they loved it, now they hate it... why? => vietnam, gulf1, afganistan, Gulf2,...
Ok... The reasons for the wars mentioned above:
- Vietnam - America fought to #1) aid our allies, the French and #2) to attempt to quell the rise of oppressive communism
- Gulf 1 - America and the coalition fought to liberate Kuwait, which, without provocation, was invaded by Saddam
- Afghanistan - America and her allies fought to remove the threat from al Qaeda (who had recently crashed four plane-loads of civilians into occupied buildings and into the ground) as well as the brutally repressive Taliban government that aided them
- Gulf 2 - America and the coalition are fighting to remove Saddam as a threat to Mid-East and world peace, and to bring freedom and democracy to Iraq
Is there something to which you object there?
Wed Mar 26, 2003 8:18 pm
Originally posted by [WEF]Herr Renz
but for me nothing is worse that war... it is the combination of almost every crime you can think about ...
Hello Renz, I do not agree with any thing you say but at least you have the courage to speak your mind.
No one likes war, but sometimes diplomacy does not work, especially if the other parties do not want to work something out diplomatically.
You should go back and read the history of your area for the last 100 years. It's your attitude toward taking care of a problem (appeasement), that got Europe into the problems it got into back in the 30's and 40's. You have to take care of a problem before it gets out of hand. saddam hussein is a big problem, directly and indirectly, more so indirectly. The evidence of the atrocities he has committed are out there for you to find, you just have to quit turning a blind eye when you hear or see them.
The United States is in a no win situation no matter what we do in the world, no one will be happy with anything we do, If we don't do anything we get critized for not taking action and if we take action we get critizied from somewhere else. Just remember, when the United States is not a superpower any longer (I hope me and my family are dead by then), everyone in the world will shift their attention to the new superpower and they will become the new whipping boy. It's an endless cycle.
btw, it was nice to see palistinians protesting in the streets waving iraqi flags along side of the french and german flags. (like the french or germans have ever gone out of their way to solve their situation)
just another rant from me, goodnight.
Allister Fiend
Wed Mar 26, 2003 9:04 pm
Heres a good article I found on the Weekly Standard page:
It's dated before the war started:http://www.weeklystandard.com/content/public/articles/000/000/002/375ixxkk.asp
It's dated before the war started:http://www.weeklystandard.com/content/public/articles/000/000/002/375ixxkk.asp