Why is the U.S. so full of non-believers?

by **CodeRed68** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:55 pm

Uh oh.. i feel a religous thread on the way...

by **cavalierlwt** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:01 pm

What it boils down to though is science, by it own definition. Science depends on evidence, concrete tangible evidence. Anything that depends on faith, by it's very definition is *not* science. A lot science is based on parallels. You find some unknown substance. How did it get here? It's a mystery. One day, a meteor comes streaking from the sky, hits the ground. You see the meteor is comprised of your mystery substance. You now have a theory, based on evidence you've seen. The mystery isn't solved completely, but for now, until something better comes along or disproves the theory, you go with it. That's a part of science.
Faith is just saying that God made the substance appear. You didn't see it, you didn't see anything like it, nothing similar or parallel to it.
Evolution, right or wrong is science. Intelligent design is theology.

by **cavalierlwt** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:03 pm

yeah, it's a religious thread. People are being cool about it though, not flaming each other.

by **EL CONQUISTADOR** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:47 pm

I have blind faith in the bible and believe that science
and religion go hand in hand for the most part. We all know
there are things that are unexplained. That is just that scientists haven't discovered the science behind it yet.

As far as evolution goes..... I also believe in it, to a point. As humans go, there are different races.

I read a study about the evolution of a cheetah in Africa.
I believe it was a group of cheetahs that had been "cut off"
from the cheetah population due to de-forestation. A
member of the group had a mutation. Its spots were smeared
almost into a short stripe. That population being separated
from the rest has shown signs of the mutation being handed down through the bloodline. Evolution anyone?

To each his own. Evolution is fact, but not on the scale
of darwin!

by **King** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:45 pm

I have blind faith that the stuff in my fridge has evolved from that block of velveeta cheese to a living breathing life form.

by **Chacal** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:47 pm

The best response I've seen to date to the ID movement is the petition to have the theory of the Flying Spaghetti Monster taught in school on an equal footing, because it's just as likely.

But what our scientist does not realize is that every time he makes a measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results with His Noodly Appendage.

by **cavalierlwt** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:27 pm

the Flying Spaghetti Monster , all hail His Noodly greatness!

by Conscious* » Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:26 pm

Originally posted by Hat Rack
Evolution is a THEORY!!! It has never been proven, and is usally being disproven more and more. For instance they now know that the "chart" we have all come to know, of the different human like species walking in a line slowly forming into modern man is bullshit. They now know that many of those creatures lived at the same time. Hard to evolve into something that all ready exists. Now if you chose to believe in the bible that is your choice, but having complete faith in scientific Theory is not to smart.

Im sure teaching students that god created everything is better right? Obviously evolution is what ought to be taught, which is most ethical and reasonable, and the only explination with any evidence is evoultion. Please.

by **=ender=** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:27 pm

Damn it, Chacal! You beat me to it! I was going to mention the all mighty FSM as well.

by **-HaVoC-** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:44 pm

I just got done watching a nice Sundance Film Festival movie about two Afghan refuges trying to buy their way illegally to London in the hope of finding a better and more secure future. so apply that to my train of thought here.

We all come to such deep and mysterious questions as these from a different path. I mean these questions of faith and life. The lot of us sitting around this cyber campfire can't possible think that ranting and raving over such things can bring about anything constructive.

So what do I think? Well my childhood was somewhat defined by a few different denominations of Christianity. I would say until I was around 14 years old. As I grew older I learned about other religions and their history. Along the way I was also taught about science. I found, as with all things, there was some good and some bad associated with it all. I was taught that the world as we know it stretches far beyond the soil I stand on. That alone could and does keep a few think tanks busy.

As an adult I have been lucky enough to find myself in a country that is currently allowing me to, within reason, experience a certain peace and prosperity and freedom to read and learn and speak without fear or unjust prosecution. This freedom has given me the power to look through the eyes of Voyager 1 and every other probe and telescope since without a bias or censorship being applied. It has also allowed me to witness the faith and religions of the world in the same manner.

For me the questions really begin when the big blue curtain falls and the stars come out. Think of the absolute balance of cosmic forces and planetary forces that takes place each day for this planet to sustain such a grab bag of fragile life. Can it all be a coincidence? Did it start with a big bang or was it divine intervention applied by some deity? Are both one in the same? What does it all mean and what lies next? It will forever be seen differently with each life that looks upon it. I have to admit I am merely along for the ride.

As some others have said it is a blend of all we have theorized and more. Let's just say that it's a matter of personal faith and belief hopefully applied with some love, understanding and compassion.

Don't Panic

by **Alofwar** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:27 am

MAK E WAY FOR THE MEGA BOFFIN!!!
Im about to lay down the law and facts.

And before i start i want to say that im a firm believer in scienece and religion is a way of controllig people, to me, thats my opinion, although i do believe that God excissts, he just didnt do anything really and he does not want to be worshiped as he is probably all wise and that

Evolution is a theory yes, but it is so logical and with so much evidence it cant be ignored, the remains of animals, certain species in history when the creature does or does not change for a while and when a climate change or whatever happens, the disapearence of certain species because they failed to adapt. In the "bible belt" of America if a teacher tries to teach it they get sent to prison, THAT IN VIOLATION OF YOUR CONSTITUTION!!!!

Evolution is correct in my opinion, the Earthis 4.6 billion years old, If dinosaurs lived side by side with Adam and Eve the Human race wouldnt be here, they would have been eaten by dinosaurs, as at the time mamals lived in hiding in holes to avoid the dinosaurs, which is probaly why it was mamals control the earth today (although it was birds that controlled the earth after the dinosaurs, giant "terrorbirds".

Please know i could writre a book here, so im cutting things very short.

Of course the 1 THING in evolution that points to the existance of God is the EYE, my biology teacher taught me this. The eye is so complexe that it cannot of evolved at once, and why would part of an eye evolve, as part of an eye is useless, if part of an eye did evolve that indicates a grand scheme, planned, so maybe evolution was given a kick every now and then, MAYBE by God.

I know this becoming a religious thread but plz dont stop it, im enjoying this.

And for you hardcore religious people out there, HAVE AN OPEN MIND, at least scienece didnt kill anyone because they didnt believe in their beliefs, i n=know that thing have moved on from then, and that scienece for a time would not accept old facts as wrong but we too have moved on. I believe without religion the world would be a better place, just think how few a wars there would have been, most wars since the fall of the Roman empire have been about religion, even the recent wars have been about religion.

wow, i got to stop now, i will write more later.

by **CodeRed68** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 9:37 am

what is the theory of "Intelligent Design"? I am not familiar with that. Someone please enlighten me?
thanks.

by **King** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 9:53 am

Originally posted by -HaVoC-
I just got done watching a nice Sundance Film Festival movie about two Afghan refuges trying to buy their way illegally to London in the hope of finding a better and more secure future. so apply that to my train of thought here.

We all come to such deep and mysterious questions as these from a different path. I mean these questions of faith and life. The lot of us sitting around this cyber campfire can't possible think that ranting and raving over such things can bring about anything constructive.

So what do I think? Well my childhood was somewhat defined by a few different denominations of Christianity. I would say until I was around 14 years old. As I grew older I learned about other religions and their history. Along the way I was also taught about science. I found, as with all things, there was some good and some bad associated with it all. I was taught that the world as we know it stretches far beyond the soil I stand on. That alone could and does keep a few think tanks busy.

As an adult I have been lucky enough to find myself in a country that is currently allowing me to, within reason, experience a certain peace and prosperity and freedom to read and learn and speak without fear or unjust prosecution. This freedom has given me the power to look through the eyes of Voyager 1 and every other probe and telescope since without a bias or censorship being applied. It has also allowed me to witness the faith and religions of the world in the same manner.

For me the questions really begin when the big blue curtain falls and the stars come out. Think of the absolute balance of cosmic forces and planetary forces that takes place each day for this planet to sustain such a grab bag of fragile life. Can it all be a coincidence? Did it start with a big bang or was it divine intervention applied by some deity? Are both one in the same? What does it all mean and what lies next? It will forever be seen differently with each life that looks upon it. I have to admit I am merely along for the ride.

As some others have said it is a blend of all we have theorized and more. Let's just say that it's a matter of personal faith and belief hopefully applied with some love, understanding and compassion.

Don't Panic

Well said Havoc....

by **Jim0322** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:10 am

Originally posted by CodeRed68
what is the theory of "Intelligent Design"? I am not familiar with that. Someone please enlighten me?
thanks.

ID esentially says that there are some things that are so complex, such as the human eye, that it is impossible that it is the result of evolution. It must have been created on purpose by some higher power. ID says that some things can't be explained so therefore the higher power did it.

The real flaw about this is that it is anti-science. There was an astronomer a few hundred years ago who was intrigued by the craters on the moon. They were so perfectly round and he saw no other explanation except that someone must have built them. This is like ID because science at the time could not fully explain the craters so he decided some conscious power had made them that way. The problem was that we all know the craters were created by asteriod impact. Just because we don't have a full understanding of why something is the way it is does not mean we should just say "The higher power made it that way." He had no concept of how craters could have occurred naturally so said somebody constructed it. That is ID, some things can't be fully explained by evolution therefore it must be God. This is really bad for science, because if we accept that the the higher power is the answer, then the inquiry is over. We will learn nothing further because we already have the answer.

by **CodeRed68** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:27 am

thanks Jim0322 for your response.
ID to me just seems like a quick answer for something we don't understand. Gods are easy to use to fill in this gap. Like the ancient Greeks. They didn't understand the sun and the moon, the earth, etc. So they had Gods in place as a reasoning for these.

Why is the U.S. so full of non-believers?

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