Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:52 am
Originally posted by 1111111111111
I see what you guys are saying.
I just wish I had known it was going to be about the last 12 hours of his life before I had seen it. Then I'd have no complaints.
Well, if you knew a bit of the Bible, then you'd know that this movie revolves around the final hours of his life. Although many Christians today do not learn about the Bible anymore, there are some things that everyone should know. Example, Judas betraying Jesus happened on the last day Jesus was to live, etc. There are hints all along the movie that make it obvious that it was the final hours of his life.
Here's another curious aspect about the movie. The woman who hangs around Mary all the time was the woman Jesus saved from stoning after having commited adultery. As the story goes, Jesus stepped up and said, "Let he without sin cast the first stone". In the movie, you don't see him actually pronouncing these words but just everybody dropping their stones and walking off. In the Bible, before Jesus says these words, he writes something in the sand that to this day we do not know what it was. In the movie, he does the same with the only letters apparent being 'C' and 'W'. It must be pointed out that he certainly was not writing English, but still, it's interesting nonetheless.
Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:53 am
Yep there's nothing like the graphic depiction of torture to bring out that warm fuzzy feeling of love in the chest of your fellow man.
Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:53 am
Originally posted by Tyrel
Here's another curious aspect about the movie. The woman who hangs around Mary all the time was the woman Jesus saved from stoning after having commited adultery. As the story goes, Jesus stepped up and said, "Let he without sin cast the first stone". In the movie, you don't see him actually pronouncing these words but just everybody dropping their stones and walking off. In the Bible, before Jesus says these words, he writes something in the sand that to this day we do not know what it was. In the movie, he does the same with the only letters apparent being 'C' and 'W'. It must be pointed out that he certainly was not writing English, but still, it's interesting nonetheless.
I totally forgot about that from the scriptures..wow thanks for pointing it out... just curious, but are you a believer there in Montreal?
Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:56 am
Agent-Commando, as I stated before, no I am not a believer. I have been an atheist since the age of 11 and find no practical use for organized religion in today's modern world. To me, religion was a useful invention to explain certain phenomena that was otherwise impossible to understand in the past. Today, modern science eleminates the purpose of religion, to me at least.
Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:22 am
Good subject for discussion Tyrel.
I planned to see the movie for entertainment and then head to dinner with my wife. Let me say this.. it was not entertainment... and after the movie we didn't feel much like eating.
It was a very somber crowd that left the theater that day. Nobody was laughing or joking or even smiling for that matter. Definately not a date movie.
That being said... I thought the movie was well done and would recommend that Christains or anyone interesed in the Bible go see it. Don't take your kids. It is definately brutal!
As a Christian, I would have to say I am in the minority with my opinions about the film. I stayed away from any information about the film prior to seeing it. The movie was well done, but I know the story by heart, so there was nothing new there. I guess I expected one thing and when it turned out to be something different, I was disappointed. However, I do think it is a good reminder to us (and particularly Christians) of what Jesus did for us.
I planned to see the movie for entertainment and then head to dinner with my wife. Let me say this.. it was not entertainment... and after the movie we didn't feel much like eating.
It was a very somber crowd that left the theater that day. Nobody was laughing or joking or even smiling for that matter. Definately not a date movie.
That being said... I thought the movie was well done and would recommend that Christains or anyone interesed in the Bible go see it. Don't take your kids. It is definately brutal!
As a Christian, I would have to say I am in the minority with my opinions about the film. I stayed away from any information about the film prior to seeing it. The movie was well done, but I know the story by heart, so there was nothing new there. I guess I expected one thing and when it turned out to be something different, I was disappointed. However, I do think it is a good reminder to us (and particularly Christians) of what Jesus did for us.
Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:58 am
Inaccuracy? - Jesus was not a white European.
Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:00 pm
The best post on this entire thread is by HaVoC. He's dead on in what he says.
And for clarities sake understand that the word "passion" in the title is from the greek root word pathos
Main Entry: pa·thos
Pronunciation: 'pA-"thäs, -"thos, -"thOs also 'pa-
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek, suffering, experience, emotion, from paschein (aorist pathein) to experience, suffer; perhaps akin to Lithuanian kesti to suffer
1 : an element in experience or in artistic representation evoking pity or compassion
2 : an emotion of sympathetic pity
The title actualy means the suffering of the christ.
They weren't trying to make it sound like a Harlequin romance.
Or a message of hate, violence, and subjugation of your fellow man.
I am with Tyrel. I won't call myself an atheist though, I am more of a nonpracticing rastafarian.
And for clarities sake understand that the word "passion" in the title is from the greek root word pathos
Main Entry: pa·thos
Pronunciation: 'pA-"thäs, -"thos, -"thOs also 'pa-
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek, suffering, experience, emotion, from paschein (aorist pathein) to experience, suffer; perhaps akin to Lithuanian kesti to suffer
1 : an element in experience or in artistic representation evoking pity or compassion
2 : an emotion of sympathetic pity
The title actualy means the suffering of the christ.
They weren't trying to make it sound like a Harlequin romance.
This movie is precisely what the world needs right now as a message of peace and love.
Or a message of hate, violence, and subjugation of your fellow man.
I am with Tyrel. I won't call myself an atheist though, I am more of a nonpracticing rastafarian.
Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:25 pm
I just can't believe that people are using the contextualization of this movie to justify taking kids to an "R" rated movie - the same people that condemn most other movies/books/video game/superbowl half-time shows for this that or the other thing.
Here's an idea - let's make a movie about Sodom and Gammorah, make it a porno (complete with the part when Lot's daughters get him drunk and make whoopie with him), release it and petition that kids go and see it because it is "contextualized". Absurd? Absolutely - and so is their virtualistic justification of why the excessive violence in this movie is okay and in others it's not. Hypocratic? Just a bit.
But I digress.
Havoc pretty much hit the nail right on the head from my perspective. Much like the Iliad and the Odyssey, the Bible was first transmitted orally from person to person, then eventually committed to writing, and copied over and over again. I don't know if I can believe accounts of things that happened 3, 4, 5 hundred years ago, let alone two millenia.
The story of Jesus is a great story. The teachings of Jesus are full of great wisdom. Do I believe it really happened? Doesn't matter. Did I gain wisdom from the story? Yes - and I believe that's the only thing that matters.
From what I hear, the movie focuses on the torture and execution and not the teachings or beliefs of the man tortured and executed. Frankly, I think that is a pretty lousy representation of Jesus, compared to the things he taught and believed in. I think there's alot more to learn from the things he said than the last hours of his life.
What is my religious affiliation? Guess. I bet you're wrong..
Here's an idea - let's make a movie about Sodom and Gammorah, make it a porno (complete with the part when Lot's daughters get him drunk and make whoopie with him), release it and petition that kids go and see it because it is "contextualized". Absurd? Absolutely - and so is their virtualistic justification of why the excessive violence in this movie is okay and in others it's not. Hypocratic? Just a bit.
But I digress.
Havoc pretty much hit the nail right on the head from my perspective. Much like the Iliad and the Odyssey, the Bible was first transmitted orally from person to person, then eventually committed to writing, and copied over and over again. I don't know if I can believe accounts of things that happened 3, 4, 5 hundred years ago, let alone two millenia.
The story of Jesus is a great story. The teachings of Jesus are full of great wisdom. Do I believe it really happened? Doesn't matter. Did I gain wisdom from the story? Yes - and I believe that's the only thing that matters.
From what I hear, the movie focuses on the torture and execution and not the teachings or beliefs of the man tortured and executed. Frankly, I think that is a pretty lousy representation of Jesus, compared to the things he taught and believed in. I think there's alot more to learn from the things he said than the last hours of his life.
What is my religious affiliation? Guess. I bet you're wrong..
Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:31 pm
See, unlike all the other R rated movies, this one actually carries a good message... that Christ did indeed die for all of us whether you believe it or not.
If you recall, Sodom and Gommorah was razed to the ground by the hand of God, and a huge flood flooded the Earth soon after... what kind of message that does carry? That men are wicked, lusting evil peoples. But do we need a movie to tell us that? No, it is present in everyday life. Come on, we see it on the news all the time... BUT DO WE EVER HARDLY SEE MESSAGES OF PEACE AND LOVE ON THE NEWS? NO! Hence the need for a movie such as this...
This is one R rated movie that carries a message of love and hope, and that one man died to save us all. Sir Winston Churchill once said, "Never have so many, owed so much to so few." Indeed Jesus was one man, who the world owes so much to His sacrifice because we are here still, able to make all sorts of comments and do all acts of anything, our freedom was not man made, but given by God.
I'm not American but I know somewhat of the Declaration of Independence, isn't there a line in there that says something along the lines of that you shall able to exercise your God given freedom, and that all men are created equal...
(which is hypocritical, because as I recall, the US is the richest country in the world now thanks to a little something called slavery of Africans..., but that's another topic on its own.)
If you recall, Sodom and Gommorah was razed to the ground by the hand of God, and a huge flood flooded the Earth soon after... what kind of message that does carry? That men are wicked, lusting evil peoples. But do we need a movie to tell us that? No, it is present in everyday life. Come on, we see it on the news all the time... BUT DO WE EVER HARDLY SEE MESSAGES OF PEACE AND LOVE ON THE NEWS? NO! Hence the need for a movie such as this...
This is one R rated movie that carries a message of love and hope, and that one man died to save us all. Sir Winston Churchill once said, "Never have so many, owed so much to so few." Indeed Jesus was one man, who the world owes so much to His sacrifice because we are here still, able to make all sorts of comments and do all acts of anything, our freedom was not man made, but given by God.
I'm not American but I know somewhat of the Declaration of Independence, isn't there a line in there that says something along the lines of that you shall able to exercise your God given freedom, and that all men are created equal...
(which is hypocritical, because as I recall, the US is the richest country in the world now thanks to a little something called slavery of Africans..., but that's another topic on its own.)
Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:03 pm
Whoa there! Watch that ignorant talk Agent Commando. The U.S. didn't get rich off of slavery. Quick history lesson for you.
The Civil War was a clash of cultures. Aristocratic southern society based off of slavery that could not compete with industrialized northern society.
Wether people like it not slavery is part of an economic model. It cannot compete with an industrial revolution. It costs a hell of a lot more money to maintain slaves that produce goods slowly than it does to set up a factory, pay a wage, and not worry about the worker the rest of the day (i.e food, lodging, medical care). The free worker can produce goods at a much faster and standardized rate then a slave can. And you can probably safely assume a paid worker is more motivated than a forced slave.
The US got rich because of industrialization and that did not occur in the slave owning areas of the country. Economically the South (slave owners) could not compete with the North (industrialized). Yes there were extremely wealthy individuals in America during the slave era and almost all were northern men who were industrialists.
Not only did the US not get rich because of slavery, It did not get really rich until slavery was ended. And arguably the U.S. has done more to end slavery in the world than any other nation with the possible exception of Britain.
Argue all you want about the basis of this movie or religion but as far slavery is concerned this is fact.
The Civil War was a clash of cultures. Aristocratic southern society based off of slavery that could not compete with industrialized northern society.
Wether people like it not slavery is part of an economic model. It cannot compete with an industrial revolution. It costs a hell of a lot more money to maintain slaves that produce goods slowly than it does to set up a factory, pay a wage, and not worry about the worker the rest of the day (i.e food, lodging, medical care). The free worker can produce goods at a much faster and standardized rate then a slave can. And you can probably safely assume a paid worker is more motivated than a forced slave.
The US got rich because of industrialization and that did not occur in the slave owning areas of the country. Economically the South (slave owners) could not compete with the North (industrialized). Yes there were extremely wealthy individuals in America during the slave era and almost all were northern men who were industrialists.
Not only did the US not get rich because of slavery, It did not get really rich until slavery was ended. And arguably the U.S. has done more to end slavery in the world than any other nation with the possible exception of Britain.
Argue all you want about the basis of this movie or religion but as far slavery is concerned this is fact.
Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:28 pm
Originally posted by Agent-Commando
See, unlike all the other R rated movies, this one actually carries a good message... that Christ did indeed die for all of us whether you believe it or not.
If you recall, Sodom and Gommorah was razed to the ground by the hand of God, and a huge flood flooded the Earth soon after... what kind of message that does carry? That men are wicked, lusting evil peoples. But do we need a movie to tell us that? No, it is present in everyday life. Come on, we see it on the news all the time... BUT DO WE EVER HARDLY SEE MESSAGES OF PEACE AND LOVE ON THE NEWS? NO! Hence the need for a movie such as this...
This is one R rated movie that carries a message of love and hope, and that one man died to save us all. Sir Winston Churchill once said, "Never have so many, owed so much to so few." Indeed Jesus was one man, who the world owes so much to His sacrifice because we are here still, able to make all sorts of comments and do all acts of anything, our freedom was not man made, but given by God.
I'm not American but I know somewhat of the Declaration of Independence, isn't there a line in there that says something along the lines of that you shall able to exercise your God given freedom, and that all men are created equal...
(which is hypocritical, because as I recall, the US is the richest country in the world now thanks to a little something called slavery of Africans..., but that's another topic on its own.)
Man, you ruined the ending of my movie for everybody, I hope your happy.
So, as long as the movie is about something positive - regardless of content - it's okay? Or is it only okay if it has a positive religious theme? If so, whose religion, and why should it make a difference?
This is where I'm confused.
Also, it's a low blow to bring up the whole slavery thing just because an American said something you didn't agree with.
Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:41 pm
To put it all in perspective, even if you do take the Bible to be fact, it is actually the interpretation of facts as seen through the eyes of many different people. Different Gospels have diffeernt interpretations of the same event. There are even Apocryphal Gospels that appear to have been outright omitted for one reason or another.
When talking about the portrayal of a certain character, Pilate for example, it is not unreasonable for the portrayal to be different than was described in the KJV. There are other historical documents of the reign of Pilate outside of the Bible which can corroborate the portrayal.
Good reading all around on topic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocrypha
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deuterocanonical_books
And this is pretty fascinating in the Anthropological sense:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh
When talking about the portrayal of a certain character, Pilate for example, it is not unreasonable for the portrayal to be different than was described in the KJV. There are other historical documents of the reign of Pilate outside of the Bible which can corroborate the portrayal.
Good reading all around on topic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocrypha
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deuterocanonical_books
And this is pretty fascinating in the Anthropological sense:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh
Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:46 pm
Going by that definition C. Murgatroyd we should be showing pornos then also. What could be more beautiful and natural and positive than the union between a man and a women and their procreating?
I would argue that message of Saving Private Ryan or Schindler's List were also positive in their own way and an accurate historical representation of their times.
one thing is for sure about life. No one is gettin outta here alive.
I would argue that message of Saving Private Ryan or Schindler's List were also positive in their own way and an accurate historical representation of their times.
one thing is for sure about life. No one is gettin outta here alive.
Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:51 pm
Originally posted by Colonel Ingus
Going by that definition C. Murgatroyd we should be showing pornos then also. What could be more beautiful and natural and positive than the union between a man and a women and their procreating?
I would argue that message of Saving Private Ryan or Schindler's List were also positive in their own way and an accurate historical representation of their times.
one thing is for sure about life. No one is gettin outta here alive.
Which is exactly my point - you have to draw the line somewhere and not say "well, seeing as how this has this quality it is an exception to the rule".
Funny, I almost used the Schindler's List example in my previous post. Great minds think alike I suppose...
Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:47 pm
Originally posted by Tyrel
Well, if you knew a bit of the Bible, then you'd know that this movie revolves around the final hours of his life. Although many Christians today do not learn about the Bible anymore, there are some things that everyone should know. Example, Judas betraying Jesus happened on the last day Jesus was to live, etc. There are hints all along the movie that make it obvious that it was the final hours of his life.
Here's another curious aspect about the movie. The woman who hangs around Mary all the time was the woman Jesus saved from stoning after having commited adultery. As the story goes, Jesus stepped up and said, "Let he without sin cast the first stone". In the movie, you don't see him actually pronouncing these words but just everybody dropping their stones and walking off. In the Bible, before Jesus says these words, he writes something in the sand that to this day we do not know what it was. In the movie, he does the same with the only letters apparent being 'C' and 'W'. It must be pointed out that he certainly was not writing English, but still, it's interesting nonetheless.
Tyrel I think if you will check the bible Mary Madelin was not around during that time of Jesus in the movie. It was much earlier in his life not during or shortly before his Crucifixion.