When is this madness going to stop?

by **Folic_Acid** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:21 pm

Originally posted by inmate#655321
Aren't we supposed to hand Iraq back over to them Friday? July 30th?

Close. Our deadline was 30 June, and we beat it by two days - Paul Bremer dissolved the Coalition Provisional Authority and handed sovereignty to the Iraqis on 28 June.

Jimmy - keep it coming. Your posts are great. :lol:

by **slog** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:30 pm

Originally posted by Murgatroyd
So, if someone made a mistake, then later realized their mistake, and took steps to try and fix it, you wouldn't trust them?

The premise of the invasion wasn't to correct our past mistakes. We (the USA) have a long history of acting in our own best interest as the expense of the residents in the middle east

for example: Support of the Shah (Iran, Dictator), Support of Saddam (Iraq, Dictator), Support of the Taliban (Afganistan, war against the USSR), Support of the Saudi Arabian Monarchy (Dictatorship, they have oil).

So no, I wouldn't trust us. Not one bit

Originally posted by Murgatroyd

So, Nevell Chamberlain bends to Hitler's demands, and gives him Czechoslovakia. Then, when Hitler invades Poland, GBR declares war on Germany. So in this case, you would trust the Germans over the British because the British had a change in policy?

Not relevant to the question. We are speaking of credibility, not changes in policy.

Originally posted by Murgatroyd
Better yet - Gulf War, 1991. Would you be cynical of the US's motives then, applying the same logic you do in this case?

Definetly. These types of invasions (Iraq invading Kuwait) are a regular occurance in Africa. Millions (and I'm not exagerating) of Africans have been slaughterd in the last 10 years, and America does nothing.

by **-HaVoC-** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:42 pm

Maybe it's just because I live with a ton of reaaaaaally lefty liberals but I just can't stand the anti American talk anymore. I hear theories about America at family night that sound like they are out of some twisted scifi fiction book. I guess I'm just tired of the US bashing. I personally can't listen to it anymore.

If Dan Rather had just grabbed Saddam during the interview and we had him in custody without one casualty, you would still have a bunch of friggin whiners and finger pointers describing how we fkd everything up.

These conversations are nothing but the spread of false information and have no positive effect at all.

by **-HaVoC-** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:48 pm

Hey slog if we did something in Africa would we not be persecuted for doing it? Christ were verbally raped if we do and if we don't. You people are really disjointed in your opinions.

by **slog** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:53 pm

Originally posted by -HaVoC-
Hey slog if we did something in Africa would we not be persecuted for doing it? Christ were verbally raped if we do and if we don't. You people are really disjointed in your opinions.

I'm not advocating action in Africa. In fact, I advocate the oppostite.

My point (see the above threads) is that the USA is very inconsitent with it's Policies and it hurts our credibility greatly. We have a long history (decades) of supporting Dictators and Despots in the middle east and it's not going to be easily overcome.

by **Mutant Enemy** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:10 pm

The main question we should ask about Iraqi is one I heard an Iraqi exile ask an anti-war demonstrator on a radio talk show: are the Iraqi people better off now than they would be under the Hussein's rule? We can debate the reasons for going into the war (the WMDs) and we can talk about their point of view too. We shouldn't be bashing on Jimmy for asking that.
In my opinion (read: MY opinion) the Iraqis are better off than under Hussein's rule. We all know the terrible things he did during his reign and we all know how sadistic his sons were. Right now there are insurgents, yes. I remember hearing how they are the leftovers of the Ba'ath party, members of the Republican Guard, and other factions that had much to gain from Saddam and everything to lose if the people were free.
It will be a while before we can fully judge whether or not the war in Iraq was a just one and neccessary. But already we saw one good thing come when Lybia declared its intentions to disarm and end its nuclear programs.
Remember that was my opinions based on some facts. You can debate me on them, just make is a mature one and I'll respond.

by **JimmyTango** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:26 pm

Originally posted by Mutant Enemy
The main question we should ask about Iraqi is one I heard an Iraqi exile ask an anti-war demonstrator on a radio talk show: are the Iraqi people better off now than they would be under the Hussein's rule? We can debate the reasons for going into the war (the WMDs) and we can talk about their point of view too.

Police use fake evidence to search your home. They find you are a person that grows weed and arrest you. In the end a drug dealer is off the street.

Ok or not?

by **Murgatroyd** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:53 pm

Crazy... but that's how it goes...
Millions of people living as foes...
Maybe, it's not too late
To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

- Ghandi

by **LeVar Burton** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:56 pm

Ghandi rocked hard.

by **Jeffro** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:59 pm

Originally posted by Murgatroyd
Crazy... but that's how it goes...
Millions of people living as foes...
Maybe, it's not too late
To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

- Ghandi

I thought it was Mother Teresa! :confused:

by **Mutant Enemy** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:29 pm

"Police use fake evidence to search your home. They find you are a person that grows weed and arrest you. In the end a drug dealer is off the street.

Ok or not?"

That's a world of difference. You seeling pot is different than you killing thousands of people who are of a different affiliation of the religion you belong to (when he gassed the Kurds). You selling pot is not bringing an entire country's population to its knees.
Where are the WMD's? Either A: They could have been dismantled before we invaded, B: moved to a different country, or C: didn't exist after the first Gulf War. But remember that sometime after the invasion we found Iraqi jet fighters buried underneath the desert that we had no idea were there. We haven't found them yet and I personally don't think we would find them in Iraq, but in Syria. Either way Saddam is out of power and most of the Iraqi people, minus the insurgents, are trying to put their country back together and get their government up and running.
Using fake evidence to get a pot dealer is one thing. Saddam Hussein out of power? I'm all for that.

by **JimmyTango** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:37 pm

Sorry mutant, it doesn't matter, at least according to the rules we govern ourselves by and want iraq to adopt.

Two wrongs do not make a right. Ok, screw the pot thing. They find kid porn all over your house when they went in there with fake evidence for another crime.

Ok or not?

Also, read the intelligence report. It was extremely flawed, simple as that.

by **Folic_Acid** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:40 pm

Originally posted by JimmyTango
Also, read the intelligence report. It was extremely flawed, simple as that. [/B]

Which report is that, Jimmy? The Senate Intelligence Committee's report that confirms the President's claim that Iraq was seeking yellowcake from Niger, or the 9/11 Commission report that confirms the same thing? I've got both sitting here on my desk, if you need to borrow either of them.

by **shockwave203** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:53 pm

In my post I simply said that some Iraqi's are probably feeling the same way, because many of their innocent loved ones have been killed in the war.

They were probably wondering how human beings could treat each other like this- Why did my 8 year old daughter get hit by a bomb, why did soldiers mistake my son for an insurgent and shoot him? Will it ever stop?

I did not mean to show an anti-american attitude, nor did I mean to jump on the bush bashing wagon. I simply showed that Iraqi's were probably feeling the same way, meaning they aren't all evil bloodthirsty maniacs over there.

if you still want to look at my post the wrong way, screw you. I really don't care.

Thanks Jimmy, for being the only person here who actually understood what I was trying to say.

by **Face** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:13 pm

Don't you think those same people were asking themselves why their loved ones were dragged from home, beaten, tortured, and thrown into mass graves for 35 years? Do you REALLY think the Iraqis are so ignorant?

During WWII, many Sicillians prefered the risk of American B17s killing them while bombing German positions than to to live under Nazi rule. Think about that.

When is this madness going to stop?

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