Michael moore's Bodyguard
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- cavalierlwt
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by cavalierlwt » Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:25 am
Toppling our Nationalism?
We've been though Civil Wars, Great Depressions, McCarthyism,presidential assassinations, Civil Rights riots,The Vietnam War, Watergate, the Iran-Contra scandal, Clinton's impeachment, a presidential election that had to be decided by the courts.
Michael Moore isn't even *rocking* our Nationalism, nevermind toppling it.
Take my advice folks, stop living in a state of fear. I know it's all you hear, because so many groups have realized that fear is a better motivator than sex or greed. Don't fall for it, reject it and you'll feel much better about life.
We've been though Civil Wars, Great Depressions, McCarthyism,presidential assassinations, Civil Rights riots,The Vietnam War, Watergate, the Iran-Contra scandal, Clinton's impeachment, a presidential election that had to be decided by the courts.
Michael Moore isn't even *rocking* our Nationalism, nevermind toppling it.
Take my advice folks, stop living in a state of fear. I know it's all you hear, because so many groups have realized that fear is a better motivator than sex or greed. Don't fall for it, reject it and you'll feel much better about life.
Failing to plead
with a throat full of dust
Life falls asleep
in a fetal position.
with a throat full of dust
Life falls asleep
in a fetal position.
- cavalierlwt
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- Posts: 2840
- Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 12:54 pm
by cavalierlwt » Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:22 am
Originally posted by COL.BUKKAKE
If you want to watch a documentary, I suggest watching this:
http://academicbias.com/bw101.html
Yep, I've seen it, pretty good. Actually, that guy does a pretty good job in a few of the little documentaries that I've seen. I'm surprised someone hasn't picked him up nationally, obviously he would fit in pretty good at Fox, but I think he's a pretty sharp guy, could probably branch out into more than just the political side of things.
I don't believe in the Liberal Media boogeyman (hell they're corporations out to turn a buck like any other), but American colleges definately have a problem with the far, far, far...keep going, farther, farther, farther....LEFT WING. I've seen some pretty ugly examples first hand.
- Tour of Duty
by Tour of Duty » Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:24 am
there is nothing bad with toppling your nationalism.
Nationalism can be a good thing, but also a bad thing. Because of nationalism, Europe had WO I. And I see a similiar thing happen in America right now.
If Moore wants to kick against the 'Stripes and Stars', even though it isn't very effecitive on a big scale, he has my support. Just let the Americans form their own opinion, instead of hiding behind their flag.
Nationalism can be a good thing, but also a bad thing. Because of nationalism, Europe had WO I. And I see a similiar thing happen in America right now.
If Moore wants to kick against the 'Stripes and Stars', even though it isn't very effecitive on a big scale, he has my support. Just let the Americans form their own opinion, instead of hiding behind their flag.
- cavalierlwt
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by cavalierlwt » Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:56 am
Nationalism, like anything and everything, has purpose but like everything needs moderation too. I don't think America is being overrun by Nationalism, we were far more patriotic in the 80s. This is just the most aggressive administration in recent history, the country itself is still split into more than one camp, we're still having elections that relatively close. Sept 11th definately gave us a feeling of US vs THEM, and then the run up to the Iraq war wound up with us learning something that people outside of the US knew for decades: a lot of people hate the US. We've always been isolated from World opinion so it's been pretty much a shock to many, myself included.
As long as there more than side to public opinion, things will work out here in America. Every four years there's an election, and the pendulum always swings back toward the middle eventually....
As long as there more than side to public opinion, things will work out here in America. Every four years there's an election, and the pendulum always swings back toward the middle eventually....
Failing to plead
with a throat full of dust
Life falls asleep
in a fetal position.
with a throat full of dust
Life falls asleep
in a fetal position.
- SavageParrot
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by SavageParrot » Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:42 am
I find the idea that vocally disagreeing with the government amounts to a lack of national pride disturbing. It's a well walked road and it seldom ends well. When Nationalism means blind and silent obedience then maybe it's time to start using a differnet word for national pride...
It's very easy to paint Moore as un-american or lacking in National pride, but read his books before you actually believe it.
It's very easy to paint Moore as un-american or lacking in National pride, but read his books before you actually believe it.
- SavageParrot
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- Tour of Duty
by Tour of Duty » Sat Jan 22, 2005 8:42 am
I agree most part with you Cavalier.
But not the most people of the world hates the US.
They problem is, that most muslims hate other people when they don't believe in Allah. Most muslim-countries don't have a separation of Church and State. So their belief is sacred to them, as is Christianity to the US, and other countries.
Because America is a great symbol of the Western-world (Christianity), they like to piss on the US.
As for other countries (European, etc.): I think it's because of America's policy.
It's because of the arrogance of the American government why we 'hate' the US.
I always like to put myself a an example, so here it goes:
I love the US. To be honest, I want to live their. US is a great country, with great people, and so on.
On 9/11, I (and the rest of the world), was shocked of what've happened in NY and D.C. I couldn't believe what happened. I couldn't imagine why somebody would've done that.
Unfortunately for America, you have G. W. Bush as your current president. He went to Afghanistan in the name of freedom (off topic: anybody noticed that Bush said allmost in every sentence of his speech the word 'freedom', last Thursday?) and everything was ok by then.
But because of the war in Iraq, most people started to 'hate' the US.
Don't get me wrong, but what America did is in my eyes illegal.
So, into conclusion: outside the muslim countries, we don't hate America, but we don't like it how the American government is acting right now.
Instead of saying: that country is dangerous, they have nuclear weapons, first take a look at yourself of the things what is wrong with you.
But that's really hard for Americans. In that part, Americans are a bit overrun by their nationalism.
But we don't hate you
:P Still love America 
But not the most people of the world hates the US.
They problem is, that most muslims hate other people when they don't believe in Allah. Most muslim-countries don't have a separation of Church and State. So their belief is sacred to them, as is Christianity to the US, and other countries.
Because America is a great symbol of the Western-world (Christianity), they like to piss on the US.
As for other countries (European, etc.): I think it's because of America's policy.
It's because of the arrogance of the American government why we 'hate' the US.
I always like to put myself a an example, so here it goes:
I love the US. To be honest, I want to live their. US is a great country, with great people, and so on.
On 9/11, I (and the rest of the world), was shocked of what've happened in NY and D.C. I couldn't believe what happened. I couldn't imagine why somebody would've done that.
Unfortunately for America, you have G. W. Bush as your current president. He went to Afghanistan in the name of freedom (off topic: anybody noticed that Bush said allmost in every sentence of his speech the word 'freedom', last Thursday?) and everything was ok by then.
But because of the war in Iraq, most people started to 'hate' the US.
Don't get me wrong, but what America did is in my eyes illegal.
So, into conclusion: outside the muslim countries, we don't hate America, but we don't like it how the American government is acting right now.
Instead of saying: that country is dangerous, they have nuclear weapons, first take a look at yourself of the things what is wrong with you.
But that's really hard for Americans. In that part, Americans are a bit overrun by their nationalism.
But we don't hate you
:P Still love America - SkiloDog2000
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by SkiloDog2000 » Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:03 am
the deployment of troops in iraq is a double ended subject. like everything there was a split opinion on saddam's position in power. every western country hated him yet some of his people still liked him for keeping the country going. when we came into the picture, thousands of iraqi's were pleased. the ones who werent pleased are killing eachother as we speak.
afghanastan... im not completely sure where i stand so i shall not speak. i believe that it was somewhat oil driven because we havent gone after north korea yet and theyre practically waving nukes in out faces. but i also believe that it was a just strike of retalliation aimed at the wrong place, probably shouldve been aimed at saudi arabia.
afghanastan... im not completely sure where i stand so i shall not speak. i believe that it was somewhat oil driven because we havent gone after north korea yet and theyre practically waving nukes in out faces. but i also believe that it was a just strike of retalliation aimed at the wrong place, probably shouldve been aimed at saudi arabia.
- Mighty Mazz
by Mighty Mazz » Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:35 am
Don't forget the fact that he cruises around in fuel guzzling jets payed for by huge corporations. At least thats what I've been told. Hypocricy at it's finest. He just comes across as an arrogant prick. After he likened the insurgents in Iraq to the Minutemen I lost the last shred of respect I had for him.
Funny thing is he helped the republicans win the election. Maybe the democrats will be a little more cautious next time and not embrace extreme left blowhards.
Funny thing is he helped the republicans win the election. Maybe the democrats will be a little more cautious next time and not embrace extreme left blowhards.
- JimmyTango
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by JimmyTango » Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:28 am
The funny thing is, if you ever watched Bowling you would know that Moore isn't against guns, it was not the point of the movie at all. So why the fuck does it matter if his body guard carries a gun, and how does that make Moore(not against guns, nor carrying a gun) a "pretentious asshole who says do what I say not what I do?"
I am sick and tired of people that go out of their way to discredit Moore, or the other side of the coin, Rush. Do a search on google, look at all of the hate websites for each. Look at the pathetic people that have nothing better to do than try to discredit every little thing that one of them says or does on forums, like they are making some big difference.
Grow the fuck up and move on with your lives. There seriously has to be something better for you to do with your time than get so worked up over voices for either party.
I am sick and tired of people that go out of their way to discredit Moore, or the other side of the coin, Rush. Do a search on google, look at all of the hate websites for each. Look at the pathetic people that have nothing better to do than try to discredit every little thing that one of them says or does on forums, like they are making some big difference.
Grow the fuck up and move on with your lives. There seriously has to be something better for you to do with your time than get so worked up over voices for either party.
- cavalierlwt
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by cavalierlwt » Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:08 pm
Tour of Duty, that's is well thought out and reasonable post, I agree.
The only thing I disagree with though is the Nationalism part. My feeling here is that the American people's attitude toward other countries isn't based on a feeling of superiority or patriotism although we are self-centered and overly patriotic at times. What IS driving this country is FEAR. I can't stress it strongly enough. Fear is running rampant, and part of what this administration does (along with our news services) is promote the ever living hell out of that fear. We are bombarded with the rhetoric of fear. The Right fears the Left (they're going to turn us gay, communist, take away our gun, take away our religious rights) and thinks that they (the Left) are some well organized force, a horde that must be beaten back or we'll be overrun. Same thing with Iraq, Muslims, ect. Instead of seeing a few angry suicidal Muslims flying planes into buildings, they see a whole Muslim world preparing to attack the US in huge horde. Yeah, there a groups of Muslims that are planning to attack us, that do want to nuke the US. They're convinced that any Muslim state that develops a nuke is going to use it on the US. So, it's fear, fear, fear, do what I say or we're all going to die. Personally, I don't give two shits if Iran has a nuke. They say death to America, but I don't think they would launch a missile (or give it to someone else to deliver), knowing we just launch back a thousand more. That crazy little bastard in North Korea might, but even then I doubt it. Mutually assured destruction is a pretty good deterrent.
Just for hell of it, if you have access to American news media, or read up the political rheteric from GWBs campaign, look at the fear angle, you'll see what I mean.
The only thing I disagree with though is the Nationalism part. My feeling here is that the American people's attitude toward other countries isn't based on a feeling of superiority or patriotism although we are self-centered and overly patriotic at times. What IS driving this country is FEAR. I can't stress it strongly enough. Fear is running rampant, and part of what this administration does (along with our news services) is promote the ever living hell out of that fear. We are bombarded with the rhetoric of fear. The Right fears the Left (they're going to turn us gay, communist, take away our gun, take away our religious rights) and thinks that they (the Left) are some well organized force, a horde that must be beaten back or we'll be overrun. Same thing with Iraq, Muslims, ect. Instead of seeing a few angry suicidal Muslims flying planes into buildings, they see a whole Muslim world preparing to attack the US in huge horde. Yeah, there a groups of Muslims that are planning to attack us, that do want to nuke the US. They're convinced that any Muslim state that develops a nuke is going to use it on the US. So, it's fear, fear, fear, do what I say or we're all going to die. Personally, I don't give two shits if Iran has a nuke. They say death to America, but I don't think they would launch a missile (or give it to someone else to deliver), knowing we just launch back a thousand more. That crazy little bastard in North Korea might, but even then I doubt it. Mutually assured destruction is a pretty good deterrent.
Just for hell of it, if you have access to American news media, or read up the political rheteric from GWBs campaign, look at the fear angle, you'll see what I mean.
Failing to plead
with a throat full of dust
Life falls asleep
in a fetal position.
with a throat full of dust
Life falls asleep
in a fetal position.
- Tour of Duty
by Tour of Duty » Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:36 pm
I know exactly what you mean.
Also here in the Netherlands, the media and politicians, stimulate the fear under the Dutch population.
And I also see the same thing happening on FOX and CNN.
Everywhere you look, people want to make you believe that you can die by a muslim-attack.
And ofcourse, it's true that they are a danger, but people over react these days.
And America, proud of their culture and history (as you said Cava: patriotic), are afraid to live in fear. Who doesn't?
When America showed their beautiful photoshoped satelite pictures of Iraq's WOMD, Americans where afraid to live in fear of the terrorist attacks, just like after 9/11. So, without even a good proces, Bush Jr. declared war to Iraq to make the people of America feel safe and sound in their beloved America. And that's (what I think, and probably you too Cava) the main key: fear.
Back to Moore: he just wants to show how wrong the American government under Bush's authority is doing, and make the people wanna believe that Bush Jr. is a 'war-maniac', and a danger (???) for the world.
Well, that's just his opinion. And in some points I agree with this man. At the oscar-awards everybody boo'd at him and 95% of the Americans thought the war in Iraq was good.
Now, after everything what've happened in Iraq, more people agree with Moore and doesn't see Bush as a hero.
But fear is still growing. Suicide attacks every day, and so on, and so on.
And I don't think it will ever change. And not even US Troops, can make this world a better place.
Reason? Because people believe. As long as people believe in God, or Allah (which I don't, it's just a good bedtime story) people will allways be in war with eachother and live in fear.
Well, I think I've said enough for now. I'll try to shut up for a month now, until Ingus makes another juicy thread
:D
Also here in the Netherlands, the media and politicians, stimulate the fear under the Dutch population.
And I also see the same thing happening on FOX and CNN.
Everywhere you look, people want to make you believe that you can die by a muslim-attack.
And ofcourse, it's true that they are a danger, but people over react these days.
And America, proud of their culture and history (as you said Cava: patriotic), are afraid to live in fear. Who doesn't?
When America showed their beautiful photoshoped satelite pictures of Iraq's WOMD, Americans where afraid to live in fear of the terrorist attacks, just like after 9/11. So, without even a good proces, Bush Jr. declared war to Iraq to make the people of America feel safe and sound in their beloved America. And that's (what I think, and probably you too Cava) the main key: fear.
Back to Moore: he just wants to show how wrong the American government under Bush's authority is doing, and make the people wanna believe that Bush Jr. is a 'war-maniac', and a danger (???) for the world.
Well, that's just his opinion. And in some points I agree with this man. At the oscar-awards everybody boo'd at him and 95% of the Americans thought the war in Iraq was good.
Now, after everything what've happened in Iraq, more people agree with Moore and doesn't see Bush as a hero.
But fear is still growing. Suicide attacks every day, and so on, and so on.
And I don't think it will ever change. And not even US Troops, can make this world a better place.
Reason? Because people believe. As long as people believe in God, or Allah (which I don't, it's just a good bedtime story) people will allways be in war with eachother and live in fear.
Well, I think I've said enough for now. I'll try to shut up for a month now, until Ingus makes another juicy thread
:D- cavalierlwt
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by cavalierlwt » Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:44 pm
They should lock the thread and store it for historical purposes, it's a political thread that didn't turn into a flame war!
Failing to plead
with a throat full of dust
Life falls asleep
in a fetal position.
with a throat full of dust
Life falls asleep
in a fetal position.
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