I can't afford my gasoline!

by **cavalierlwt** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:12 pm

Originally posted by ShipWreck
China and India are getting so industrial is because of us. IMO.

India and China are simply becoming more technologically advanced. Even if we didn't exist, they would be striving to upgrade. They don't want to be agrarian societies forever.

by **cavalierlwt** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:16 pm

Originally posted by Bromsin
Well wishing for the gas to go up and up and up isnt going to change the Presidency until 2008. So we should all pay HUGE amounts for gas until then?

That doesnt seem like a solution or even help anything.

Gas prices raising isnt going to help us get a better President. Its just going to hurt us, the consumers.

It's us, the consumers that *need* to drive the change. We're the ones that consume the oil. We need to hurt to see the reality, because nothing else has made a dent on us. We choose to buy SUVs when we don't need them. Yes, I know, there ARE people who need them, but the vast, vast, vast f*cking majority don't. No administration is just going to initiate change unless we are screaming for it. And we don't scream until we're hurting.

by **CodeRed68** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:20 pm

I agree with all the SUV bashing !! I have thought this for years. Too many suv's on the road when people never even use or need them. Yuppies and soccer moms ! There is no need for those huge gas guzzling, ozone depleting, monoxide emitting boats in suburbia! I drive a VW Passat (regular car) and most of the time i feel like i am the only non-suv on the road.

For those conspiracy theorists. I have heard them say that we already have the technology to build fuel efficient/alternative cars but there is too much money and politics at stake in the oil industry, etc.

by **NightCrawler** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:26 pm

I hear everyone here and if the projections are right, it will be $5.00 plus a gallon by New Years 2006. And that is ONLY 4 months away! It will not get any better, I can tell you. Unless our CURRENT US President gets off his butt and does something about this, we are in for a world of hurt. But then again, he is on the side of the oil companies, look at the Vice-President, he is definately in the pockets of the Oil Companies.

The nation has to do something now! Make a bill in Congress "Freezing" the cost of gasoline which would do some good, but would not make it much better. It would only put off the inevitable. But the Oil Companies would not be making those HUGE profits they are always boasting about. But then again, I have to get back to reality, and see who is in Charge right now, and just save my money.

Yes I am hostile, Yes I am Mad, but that will not make the problem any better. Just have to take it in the chin until something is done, which probably won't happen till November 2008, but it will probably be TOO Late then.

by **=ender=** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:32 pm

I can't wait until the first crap powered car rolls off the line. Oil companies would become food companies to make us eat and, subsequently, crap more. And I gotta tell ya, I make enough as is to run the cars for my entire neighborhood. I'd be like a miniature oil magnate in my town! I'd help make up for those that are "stuffed up" and those that just don't crap that often. People would be paying me to crap for their lawn mowers or SUVs or whatever! When people say "that's the sh!ttiest car I've ever seen" it will actually be a complement ("that's the most fuel efficient car I've ever seen").

Seriously, alternative fuel sources have not only been researched and developed over the years stateside, there are some that already exist. But, it's not a simple matter of "the people want hydrogen cars, so they shall get them." To discuss how Big Oil and Detroit damn near run the United States would take pages of typing that I don't want to get into. It's not a conspiracy that development takes as long as it does, it's just the nature of the business right now. Just because a certain technology exists doesn't mean it's to the level of being a financially feasible option for the general public. And there really are too many politics involved in the oil industry. Ugh... I could type pages on this.... Believe me, I'm in favor of a revolution in the way we think of fuel.

I can't wait until an alternative to oil based fuel beceomes not only an option, but a standard. May not happen in my lifetime, but it sure will be nice once it's here.

by **cavalierlwt** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:42 pm

The thing is, we don't need to look at the shift in technologies as a burden. When it happens, it's not going to hurt us, or crimp our lifestyle, it's going to make things better. If I took a time machine back to the early 80's and told the people 'You *MUST* become a computerized society, 90% of the homes *MUST* have a computer. Computers must eventually outsell TVs in order for this quota to be met'
They would shit a brick. They would assume that life was going to really suck in the 80s and 90s etc. 'How are we going to each come up with a $1000+ so we can have a PC?'
It would be doom and gloom to put it like that. But look at the reality of our Computer Revolution: everyone did it because it benefitted us in some way, and it in itself was a financial engine that generated and fueled the economy. Factories, Offices, and homes all bought this new technology on their own, but out of neccesity.
The Energy Revolution will be the same way, we just need to get our heads wrapped around the idea of it.

by **[MXC]Vic Romano** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:51 pm

I have no sorrow for people who complain about the price of gas. Don't like the price? Don't buy any gas. It really is that simple. Our society needs to learn to carpool, and this is going to teach them. Personally, I hope gas hits $10 per gallon - it'll force all the old nitrate-spewing rusted-out muscle cars, trashed redneck pickups, and uber-huge SUV's right off the road.

$400 gets you a reasonably nice bike, why not get some exercise? BTW, I have a round-trip commute of 80 kilometers (mostly highway) - that's 300 kilometers per week, not including any non-work-related driving. During the summer I ride my bike to work 2X per week. It takes me a little over an hour and a half there and another hour and a half back. I've never been in such good shape in my life.

by **PraiseA||ah** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:51 pm

Not financially feasible in terms of the current political climate, business model and infrastructure. Sure. Change just one of those and you will have the beginning of a revolution in alternative power innovation.
They (the American automobile industry) need motivation because it obviously isn't going to come from within. They are selling inefficient vehicles and could care less about their impact. They have very powerful lobbies and can and do have laws made to protect themselves and their business practices.
Of course they say it's because the consumer wants x and they provide it. I think that's a half-truth. If they provided y and stopped providing x. Is there anyone that really thinks the auto companies would suddenly be out of business? Of course not, people would have to buy the product or have no vehicles at all. Maybe Draconian and a bit simplistic to think that way but it's basically how things work. You can only buy what is offered for sale. They need incentives to invest in alternative fuels and I say.. carrot and stick. Heavy on the stick for taking so damn long and for bs'ing the public too.

by **Weasel Meat** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:53 pm

I paid $2.53 last night and this morning it was $3.09

by **Weasel Meat** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:55 pm

How I got gas this morning

by **deathBOB** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:00 pm

Wow, good thread! Semi-political discussion with no flamage! Lets try and keep it like that!

I think the tech is there. I think we have enough smart people in America to make it work. Think of it like the Moon race of the mid-twentieth centruy. Throw enough money/resources at a problem (beating the USSR/removing oil from the economy) it can be solved. Look at how much was spent on the Occupation of Iraq. That money could have gone a long way toward alternatives.

Unfortunately the oil industry (and the rest of corporate america) is to far entrenched in our government.

by **cavalierlwt** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:00 pm

It never starts out feasible. The Internet wasn't a feasible idea. It's starts with some early adopters (we already have that now) then some hype, some consumer demand, and industry responds, then boom, the prices come down as technologies mature. Obviously the oil companies are going to protect themselves as much as possible. Best way to deal with them is having them be the ones that deliver the new technology. They already have the infrastructure in place. Have the govt make it a sweeter deal (via subsidy and law) to push into the new technology. I think the demand is coming around right now, the early adopters are already in place. Now, we're just waiting for a little hype, and the Industry to kick in.
And BTW, as far as feasible goes, consider this: The new fuels don't need to be $2.60 a gallon to compete, because we are paying a hell of lot more than $2.60, that's just the price you pay at the pump. The price you pay in taxes (spent on Middle East military/financial aid and military interventions) probably drives the price up to $5 per gallon or more. Push comes to shove, I would rather spend a few bucks per gallon in taxes domestically than in the Middle East.

by **deathBOB** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:05 pm

Originally posted by SavageParrot
Yeah so doing the maths it would be about $7-8 a gallon in the uk. You guys still have it easy...

Do you have public transportation? Its practically non-existent here in Atlanta, so its either buy gas or stay home.

by **cavalierlwt** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:06 pm

Originally posted by deathBOB
Wow, good thread! Semi-political discussion with no flamage! Lets try and keep it like that!

I think the tech is there. I think we have enough smart people in America to make it work. Think of it like the Moon race of the mid-twentieth centruy. Throw enough money/resources at a problem (beating the USSR/removing oil from the economy) it can be solved. Look at how much was spent on the Occupation of Iraq. That money could have gone a long way toward alternatives.

Unfortunately the oil industry (and the rest of corporate america) is to far entrenched in our government.

You got it! Our space program was pitiful in the 50s. The Russians were kicking our ass, they launched Sputnik, they were way ahead. Then Kennedy got up and said, "We will put a man on the moon before the end of this decade"
It was a ridiculous statement, totally insane. But we got off our ass and made it happen. That's how things start. If Bush, or some future President stood there and said, "We will get off oil in twenty years, starting right now", we could make it happen.
To all the naysayers, I say "Come on, where's your pride and patriotism?" This defeatism is NOT the American Way. Or the British Way, or the German Way. Were not being beaten by aliens, the earth isn't being hit by an asteroid. We just need to switch to a different type of fuel. It's not rocket science, it's just a matter of will.

by **Namloot** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:10 pm

When gas was $1.00 a gallon, they said producing alchohol would cost $1.50 a gallon, and wouldnt' pay off. Now that gas is $3.00 a gallon, I bet they say producing alchohol will cost $4.00, and it still doesn't pay.

Wake up folks, this is all being manipulated by the ruling class to screw us.

I can't afford my gasoline!

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