Rumsfeld Resigns

[Darknut]

That information is and has been recored for years before the Patriot Act. The Patriot Act just makes it easier for law enforcement to go look at those things. What? You think before the PA nobody recorded that information? Nobody had access to that information? You were being "monitored"** long before the PA came into existence.

Don't mistake me for one of those people who thinks that everything can be protected nor do I believe it is even worthwhile to protect everything but I do believe that if suspect somebody is up to no good you should be able to observe them. The PA isn't designed to catch petty thugs, it is designed for counter-terrorism and high-profile criminals.

**Monitored if anyone cared to look.

[Conscious*]

Looks at what books you read at the library? Honestly do you care if they know you've rented from a library....not like they actually check you anyway....its only for people that are suspicious. If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear, and i agree with Darknut.

[Darknut]

Tell you what, the library has always known what you've been reading. If you trusted some random person at the counter with your library activities then why can't you trust law enforcement? You trust some random guy at your ISP with your internet activities, why not law enforcement?

[JimmyTango]

Originally posted by Conscious*
Chacal, you don't live in the US and you don't like the Patriot Act? I seriously haven't been able to understand people's problems with it.

Simple: we side step what makes us so great as a nation, what is supposed to seperate us from them. That turns us into them.

[JimmyTango]

Yes, it is ok to wipe away a few rights like needing proper warrants to do searches.

BUT TAKE MY M16 WITH ATTATCHED GRENADE LAUNCHER, SILENCER, BAZOOKA AND HEAT SEAKING MISSLE ATTACHMENT AND WE HAVE A FUCKING PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SavageParrot]

Pfft we have the same shit in the uk now. They just passed a bullshit law that lets the police look at medical records. Now that's way over the line IMO. I can deal with most things but I fail to see how medical histories are going to help stop terrorism...

[cavalierlwt]

It all seems harmless when you picture all these new programs being used to fight terrorism. But imagine what it's like when these broad, far reaching powers are in the hands of a president who wants to do something more, something worse. They can snatch people off of a plane and zip them over to guantanamo bay, no lawyer, no judge, no chance to plead your case. So what's to stop a president from deciding that his political opponents are bad for America, and should be whisked away?? They disappear without a trace and suddenly we are on our way to a dictatorship.

If you can't picture the current president from doing it, use you imagination and try to picture what these powers will be like in the hands of future presidents.

We set our system up very carefully with checks and balances to avoid this possibility, we have to be very careful that we don't provide a loophole to undo these checks and balances.

As it stands now, any non-citizen would have to be insane to visit the US, seriously. We sent an innoncent Canadian to Syria to be tortured.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A522-2003Nov4¬Found=true

[SavageParrot]

what classifies as a link to terrorism anyway? mothers, pool cleaners, nephews 3rd cousin?

[gowhitesox99]

i knew you were hiding something Parrott

[SavageParrot]

I'm just saying working on the old 6 degrees of separation you can link practically anyone with terrorists.

[gowhitesox99]

heh ya I'm sure you could.

Isnt that 6 degrees of Bacon?

[SavageParrot]

mmmn bacon

[Darknut]

Lol that story isn't the result of the Patriot Act. They were able to do the same thing before the PA and have done so before.