Bush Plans Science Base on the Moon

[SGT DEVILDOG Profile]

People thought that it was to expensive/ crazy to send Columbus on his voyage of exploration, and look what happened. Man should always strive to pull back the veil of ignorance no matter what the precieved cost is. The day that man as a speices is to scared to explore just turn out the lights because we are done.
Building a base on the moon is the 2nd step to getting a man/woman on Mars. From the red planet we will go to the astorid belt and the outer planets and moons like Uropia etc. Actually, without the low gave of the moon we will not be able to build the massive space ships that will be needed to reach those more distant locations succesfully. Once NASA does build a base on the moon it is only a matter of time before big biz gets in the game and real space exploration takes off. Did you know that claims are already being made on the biggest astroids, which contain massive amounts of mineral wealth? Money has always controlled exploration.

P.S. Without space exploration we wouldn't have TANG:)

[Bagginses]

I'm not exactly sure of where most of the money goes into getting into space, but my feeling is that tons and tons of it goes into ensuring that nothing goes wrong on this ships. I think NASA's fear of failure is one of the biggest things holding us back. However, it's because of mistakes that we have become successful in many areas. We never would be where we're at with aviation if people had not made mistakes and died. Now I'm not saying NASA should be careless, but privatizing space exploration would be substantially cheaper as private companies would be less nervous about it.

-Bagginses

[hightimber Profile ICQ]

Originally posted by SGT DEVILDOG
People thought that it was to expensive/ crazy to send Columbus on his voyage of exploration, and look what happened. Man should always strive to pull back the veil of ignorance no matter what the precieved cost is. The day that man as a speices is to scared to explore just turn out the lights because we are done.
Building a base on the moon is the 2nd step to getting a man/woman on Mars. From the red planet we will go to the astorid belt and the outer planets and moons like Uropia etc. Actually, without the low gave of the moon we will not be able to build the massive space ships that will be needed to reach those more distant locations succesfully. Once NASA does build a base on the moon it is only a matter of time before big biz gets in the game and real space exploration takes off. Did you know that claims are already being made on the biggest astroids, which contain massive amounts of mineral wealth? Money has always controlled exploration.

P.S. Without space exploration we wouldn't have TANG:)

Well said. I definitely think NASA is using the moon as a stepping stone to get men to mars. A lot of the same technology used for manned missions could be tested on short hops to the moon (and back).

[Colonel Ingus Profile]

NASA in its original format was made up of engineers who solved problems and thats why the orginal missions (Mercury, Gemini, Apollo) were so successful.

SInce the early 70's NASA has been run by "administrative" types who are more worried about their congressional funding than they are about performing good solid work.

The real engineers, The people that actually create instead of endlessly shuffling papers, aren't in charge and have little say in the organizations decision making process and the direction they are taking.

Since the 70's NASA has engaged in toadying to big name contractors and has shown little innovation and little forward thinking. In the eighties that wonderful Reagen administration created the OSMB that has basically engaged in suppressing private growth in the space industry to protect NASA's monopoly on space and space travel.

Because Apollo was such a success NASA and the Government have grown so fond of massive public initiatives that they actively discourage individual initiative and in turn suppress such.

People solve problems, not massive government funding, and until we get private investment in space we will plod along extremely slow and take steps backward. Steps backward like going for an Apollo type program to move forward in space.

I personally would rather we did NOT go to mars. If we did they would do it the same way that the lunar missions were done. Lets build up space industry and space technology to the point that a MARS mission would be cheap and successful. The first man landed on the moon a little over 34 years ago. The last was a little over 31 years ago. Lets not take a populist approach and repeat the same mistake with further space exploration.

Jerry Pournelle, an author and scientist, was involved in the orignal lunar programs with NASA said it something along the lines of how he had always dreamed of seeing a man on the moon but he did not expect that man to be the last one.

[Buliwyf Profile]

Government officials have confirmed that a new space initiative will be launched and the media has reported details of the plan contained in official documents. According to these, the Moon base would be constructed within the next 15 years, with missions to Mars or nearby asteroids beginning in the 2020s. The president will ask Congress for $800 million in seed money for 2005 and an additional five per cent of NASA's approximately $15 billion annual budget over the next five years, reports United Press International. A human mission to Mars is expected to cost $40 billion to $80 billion.

[SGT DEVILDOG Profile]

[quote]Originally posted by Colonel Ingus

People solve problems, not massive government funding, and until we get private investment in space we will plod along extremely slow and take steps backward. Steps backward like going for an Apollo type program to move forward in space.

I personally would rather we did NOT go to mars. If we did they would do it the same way that the lunar missions were done. Lets build up space industry and space technology to the point that a MARS mission would be cheap and successful. The first man landed on the moon a little over 34 years ago. The last was a little over 31 years ago. Lets not take a populist approach and repeat the same mistake with further space exploration.
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Col I agree that Space travel and exploration will eventually be taken over by big business. It is only a matter of time before this happens. Look at the space station it is already starting to be used to make money. 20 million a flight. However, this is an area that the government needs to seed the venture so that business can start to grow in this area. Kind of like the X prize. Back to those asteroids I mentioned earlier. Do you think that thoses big corperations are not chomping at the bit to get at those vast resources.
My only problem with turning over all of space exploration to big business, is that eventually those companies might be sold to other countries who are not as friendly as we would like. China is a great example, Clinton greased the wheels so that a certain areospace company could be sold to China. Nevermind the fact that the company had Rocket secrets among other things. Did you see that recently China just launched their first man into space. They should have named it the Clinton 1.

P.S. "Not go to Mars" Whould you rather see somone else go first? Or sould we just call space exploration finished, and be happy with what we know already. If neither of these solutions dont work for you then Mars is the next logical step in our journey out of the Solar System.

[Bagginses]

On a side note, does anyone know when the State of the Union speech is? I'm curious to see how a proposal for millions of dollars for the space program will go over in front of Congress.

-Bagginses

[Colonel Ingus Profile]

I am saying to not go to mars now.

Build up space industry and infrastructure first (like the original Apollo program was suppossed to do) and go there some day later.

Who gives a shit about "I WAS FIRST!". We were the first onto the moon and I don't see any huge advantage over any others because of this. In fact I see burgeoning space industries in the rest of the world and we went to the crap shuttle that should have been scrapped when it was deisigned.

In the mid to late seventies there were designs for the SSX (Space Ship Experimental) that would be a one stage ground to orbit craft but we went ahead and built the shuttle to keep companies like Boeing and Morton Thiokol fat and happy on government contracts.

There is absolutely no value to going to Mars in a rush like the Apollo program. Asteroids are a much cheaper, easier to take advantage of, and economical approach.

What are we going to find on Mars? Look DIRT! Is there or was there life on mars? Who cares, it will be there in 10 years (or the signs of it) and that will still be there in 20, 30, and 40 years from now.

Consider this. We could snag a NEO asteroid (Near Earth Orbit) and change its orbit to place it orbit around the earth, or more safely, the moon. You take a giant weather balloon into space, inflate it, spray the inside to make it mylar and then cut it in half. Now you have two extremely cheap gigantic mirrors. You face them so they concentrate the sun onto the rock and you have a practically free smelter to boil the rock and get what minerals you want out of.

Its has been estimated that one asteroid greater than one KM in diameter could supply the entire worlds metal needs for an entire year! Get a carbonaceous chondrite and you have water also for your moon colony, where water would be an extremely valuable commodity, and you wouldn't need to ship it up from the surface (earth) at great cost.

NOW THATS AN INVESTMENT!

The country that focuses on economic expansion into space and not the ole prestige one time shot is going to be the one that leads the way.

Then once you have an infrastructure built you can go for the PR and send a manned mission to Mars.

More on this later.

[=V!per=]

Originally posted by Colonel Ingus

Consider this. We could snag a NEO asteroid (Near Earth Orbit) and change its orbit to place it orbit around the earth, or more safely, the moon. You take a giant weather balloon into space, inflate it, spray the inside to make it mylar and then cut it in half. Now you have two extremely cheap gigantic mirrors. You face them so they concentrate the sun onto the rock and you have a practically free smelter to boil the rock and get what minerals you want out of.

Its has been estimated that one asteroid greater than one KM in diameter could supply the entire worlds metal needs for an entire year! Get a carbonaceous chondrite and you have water also for your moon colony, where water would be an extremely valuable commodity, and you wouldn't need to ship it up from the surface (earth) at great cost.

NOW THATS AN INVESTMENT!

The country that focuses on economic expansion into space and not the ole prestige one time shot is going to be the one that leads the way.

Then once you have an infrastructure built you can go for the PR and send a manned mission to Mars.

More on this later.

This is a great PR sale. I find it intriguing and essentially doable. Can you supply references citing this idea so I can have a deeper understanding?

Thanks