US MILITARY ACTION IN IRAQ Y or N?

[Horsepower Profile YIM]

don't get me wrong, i was skeptical. in no way do i ever take what my government says at face value. i was never "rah rah go to war" and i never thought Iraq was an imminent threat to my country. i was, however pretty sure that Saddam did have these weapons, and in doing so, had continously violated the UN resolutions. that is why i somewhat reluctantly supported the war. i had a bad feeling about it from the beginning, but was giving my government the benefit of the doubt. that's a mistake i will never make again.

i'm glad Saddam is gone though. i don't feel any remorse for that. he truly did many screwed up things to those people. but i doubt if i were in the same situation, an Iraqi would give enough of a fuck about what was happening to me to come over here and liberate me.

i was lied to, plain and simple. i already know how i will be voting next election. whoever runs against Bush.

[Colonel Ingus Profile]

Scepticism (although healthy) was completely unnecessary.

I know some of you guys are too young yet to serve in the military and some of you are from foreign countries where the military isn't as large a part of society as here but there are few simple facts that need to be recognized.

I served in the Gulf War I and although we did a kickass job we were not allowed to finish it.

Al Queda's stated purpose is to remove the "Great Satan" from Islamic lands. (actually myself and many others belive it is just the beginning. Hardcore Islamics truly believe in the "Islam or the sword" credo, and that no other religions are permisibble)

I don't know how many of you have actually been to Saudi Arabia (I have) but it is chock full of muslim holy sites including the most sacred Mecca. Prior to the 1991 Gulf War we never had troops stationed there and the Saud family had a working accord with the Wahabi's.

After Gulf War I the Saudi's insisted we stay to prevent any recurring aggression by Saddam and others of his ilk. For economic and national security reasons we had to honor this commitment.

So this puts us into the situation that ran throughout the 90's and into this decade. The first WTC bombing, The embassies in Afica, The USS Cole, The millenium attempt in Washington state that was stopped and numerous others culminating in 9/11. Not to mention all the incidents that were not reported because our government did a good job in preventing them.

Why was Al Queda attacking us? Because we were in Holy Land. Why were we in holy land? Because we did not get to finish Iraq in the first go around.

So what did attacking Iraq gain us? We have already removed a major portion of our forces from Saudi Arabia and continue to do so. This in effect removes a major portion of Al Queda gripes against us. (although I do not believe they will stop because of this)

Contrary to what many anti-american's believe we are NOT there to form an empire in America's name and we aren't going to stay there. We are already urgently pushing to have an Iraqi government run by Iraqi's but we can't leave yet because to do so would leave them at the mercy of the small but dedicated hardcore Islamicists and leftover remnants of Saddam's people killing machine.

I hate to sound cold-hearted but for guys who play games dedicated to killing people many of you do not seem to have a grasp on war and the costs of it.

Some times war is neccesary and it must be fought. Are people going to die? Yes. And although you hear these leftover Vietnam era reporters talking about the horror of a handful of lives being lost daily or weekly it is not the tragedy they make it out to be.. (although it is to the ones dying and their loved ones)

Be realistic here people. How many people die in this country everyday? I know the statistic is 50,000 yearly on our highways alone. Why thats just 8,000 short of how many we lost in Vietnam and that went on for over 11 years!
Why aren't upset about that? Because it is the price we pay for the kind of society we have and most of us seem willing to accept it. Make no mistake. I do not believe that there is a single person in this world worth one American's life and I rue the loss of Americans over there but I recognize it as a necessary price to pay so that no one blows up shit over here anymore.

I can say that honestly because I was there last time around, recognized the necessity of it, and was willing to do my duty to my country.

Did Saddam have "weapons of mass destruction"? I believe he did but I don't even care. Did we do a great humantarian thing by freeing the Iraqi people? Yes but we could have saved literally tens if not hundreds of thousands more if we had finished Gulf War I. Is any of this important to the real reason why we waged this most recent war? Not really.

One of the most famous and oft bandied about quotes is that those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Quick question for you here. Do you know who the only national leader and important person from WWII was that oppossed Hitlers invasion of Czezchloslovakia was?

Bennitto Mussolini.

Think about that for a while.

[PudriK Profile]

Considering the fact that we were overflying Iraq for over ten years, frequently bombing AA missle sights, one could consider that the first war never really ended, we just stopped fighting it. The problem was we stuck with the UN mandate to just push them out.

One thing about this war, no matter whether you think Gulf War II was justified, it has unequivically demonstrated how useless the UN is as a world government. (Which is what many want it to be.) It reminds me of the Articles of Confederation. Without an executive branch or the ability mandate national contributions, it is unable to effectively accomplish anything more than passing "resolutions." They failed to deal with problem of Saddam, and they failed to keep the US from restarting the war. Not that I want a world government any time soon... There are still too many disfunctional nations in the world.

Regardless, we got ourselves into this mess, and I sure hope we can get ourselves out of it and leave Iraq better for having been there. Certainly we cannot just pull out now, there is still to much work to do.

I wonder, though, with all these recent attacks with Arab casualties, if Al Qaeda may lose the PR battle with the rest of the Arab world.

[Fat Bastard]

Bravo Ingus well said

[Cpl. Bingham]

Hasn't Bush said they were pulling out next year? In political terms, not much can be accomplished ina couple of months.

What I worry about the iraqi people the most is that even if the US stayed for the next 10 years, the very next day Saddam would suddenly reappear with more Republican Guard and simply resume power again.

[sgt.worm]

Originally posted by s.s. one person
3 people said no....... may i ask who did and why?

if you take away there military thay will not be able to defend them selfs agenst hostels not all iraqes are terrorist i think we should rid the world of terrorism dont get me wrong

[SilverSurfer Profile Website]

i voted no. why bring this thread alive?