Closing our borders

if you guys wonna have disneyland involved in this... fine for me:
america has the power, the money and the possibility to make the wolrd a disneyland/wonderland for everyone on this planet... but they refuse to do it... but when they did it Bin Laden wouldn't had found peeps to hijack those planes... he wouldn't even have a reasson to do it...

[PudriK]

You're right, I am getting lost in the trees. I would agree that tracking people is a much more attainable goal. At the least, they need to start demanding proof of citizenship or naturalizationin order to obtain simple civic services, such as driver's licensces, medical care, etc. Not that it could be refuesed (medical care), but it would result in immediate processing for deportation. At the same time, they have to remove barriers to obtaining work visas. I say, get 'em in and make 'em pay taxes like everyone else.

The effort needs to be made to streamline the process at the same time as making it more comprehensive.

The sea and air border problem is still very challenging, even limiting it to human cargo.

If I was to join the army, marines, etc, etc, of course I would still want the war, that is what I joined for correct???? to serve and protect!!

Second my husband is in a war everyday of his life, He is a cop,and he serves and protects people everyday of his life and if my husband was in Iraq and got killed would I blame Iraq??, no I wouldn't because it would have been my husband's choice to join the army knowing that he could go to war, there for if he was in the war in Iraq and died, at least I know he died defending his country and others, I would be a proud wife of a solider!!! life or death

if you're proud that your husband died because of a war that didn't had to be...

sorry but here i've nothing to say on that... (only that america is attacking, only the iraqi's are defending there country, but are you proud on them?)

Iraqi soldiers are defending there fuck up leader{Saddam}
not there country, Americans are fighting for Iraq and it's people to help save them from such an unhuman leader and fighting for our country as well!!!

Originally posted by [WEF]Herr Renz
if you guys wonna have disneyland involved in this... fine for me:
america has the power, the money and the possibility to make the wolrd a disneyland/wonderland for everyone on this planet... but they refuse to do it... but when they did it Bin Laden wouldn't had found peeps to hijack those planes... he wouldn't even have a reasson to do it...

What? If the US refused to make the world a better place, we wouldn't be in Iraq. I'm sorry, but your statement makes no sense given your stand so far.

if you would want to make the world better then you wouldn't be in Iraq with soldiers but with medics, teachers and food...

Originally posted by [WEF]Herr Renz
if you would want to make the world better then you wouldn't be in Iraq with soldiers but with medics, teachers and food...

You must be talking about Afghanistan. Medics, teachers, and food are there now that they have been liberated from the Taliban.

What good is trying to help people when a brutal regime steals the aid/services, or just doesn't allow some or all of them? Think of all the monetary aid that Saddam has turned into palaces.

[Folic_Acid]

Originally posted by [WEF]Herr Renz
if you would want to make the world better then you wouldn't be in Iraq with soldiers but with medics, teachers and food...

Herr Renz, if you follow your logic, how would you have handled Hitler and Mussolini? Would you have preferred the Americans and British sending doctors and teachers to Normandy, or would you prefer the bloody invasion? Their current recalcitrance notwithstanding, I wonder if the French would have preferred doctors and teachers to the American, British, and other soldiers on the Normandy beaches...

man i allready told (how many times do i have to repeat myself?) that i have nothing agianst defending yourself... but in this case they are attacking Iraq, putting there own people in danger... and they don't even want to take the responsibility they have to rebuild Iraq...

[Folic_Acid]

Originally posted by [WEF]Herr Renz
man i allready told (how many times do i have to repeat myself?) that i have nothing agianst defending yourself... but in this case they are attacking Iraq, putting there own people in danger... and they don't even want to take the responsibility they have to rebuild Iraq...

Ah. So in that case, the Allies should have stopped at the German border?

Also, let me quote from an 18 March editorial by Ann Clwyd, Labour MP from the Cynon Valley, written for the Times of London - I would encourage you to read the whole thing.

From the Times of London
There was a machine designed for shredding plastic. Men were dropped into it and we were again made to watch. Sometimes they went in head first and died quickly. Sometimes they went in feet first and died screaming. It was horrible. I saw 30 people die like this. Their remains would be placed in plastic bags and we were told they would be used as fish food . . . on one occasion, I saw Qusay [President Saddam Hussein’s youngest son] personally supervise these murders.”

This is one of the many witness statements that were taken by researchers from Indict — the organisation I chair — to provide evidence for legal cases against specific Iraqi individuals for war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide. This account was taken in the past two weeks.

The full edtiorial can be found here.

Does this sound like a regime that deserves to be left alone? Does these sound like the actions of a reasonable and humane regime? Does this sound like a regime that supports and upholds principles of freedom and democracy?

One further quote from Ms. Clwyd's editorial:

From the Times of London
Many Iraqis wonder why the world applauded the military intervention that eventually rescued the Cambodians from Pol Pot and the Ugandans from Idi Amin when these took place without UN help. They ask why the world has ignored the crimes against them?

All these crimes have been recorded in detail by the UN, the US, Kuwaiti, British, Iranian and other Governments and groups such as Human Rights Watch, Amnesty and Indict. Yet the Security Council has failed to set up a war crimes tribunal on Iraq because of opposition from France, China and Russia. As a result, no Iraqi official has ever been indicted for some of the worst crimes of the 20th century. I have said incessantly that I would have preferred such a tribunal to war. But the time for offering Saddam incentives and more time is over.

Can you argue with this?

Originally posted by [WEF]Herr Renz
if you guys wonna have disneyland involved in this... fine for me:
america has the power, the money and the possibility to make the wolrd a disneyland/wonderland for everyone on this planet... but they refuse to do it... but when they did it Bin Laden wouldn't had found peeps to hijack those planes... he wouldn't even have a reasson to do it...

Are you suggesting that we move Israel, better yet the only thing that would have made Bin Laden and his radical followers happy, would be us Nuking Israel.

Amazing how you side with a guy like Bin Laden, that you find his response to his hatred as a "reason to hijack planes and fly them into buildings" as a valid one.

Yet our response to the world of terrorism, unjust and murdering of people.

Better go check your moral handbook again.

There is actually nothing I have to say to Herr Rehns. I mean to even address that guy, would be to acknowledge that he's worth replying to, which is alot more credit than I would afford him. Sure he's trying to start a debate, but it's a debate made along the worst possible lines, he's insulting, he's accusatory, he isn't open to opinnions other than Bloodbuddas, and he expresses no respect for the people who he talks to.

So to all you good guys on this forum, Doug, Bukkake, Iron Pyrite, Bayotanzk and others I appreciate reading your comments but I'm personally through reading debates bounced off of Herr Rehns. Herr Rhens just degrades the conversation too much.

cya on some other threads.

C'mon Cid! It's listening to the insulting, accusatory, outlandish anti-US propaganda that confirms we are right. These people need to keep talking so we are reminded of just how ludicrous it all is.

Try not to pin too much of it on Renz. We have plenty of "reality-challenged" around here.

Originally posted by Doug the Unforgiven
C'mon Cid! It's listening to the insulting, accusatory, outlandish anti-US propaganda that confirms we are right. These people need to keep talking so we are reminded of just how ludicrous it all is.

Try not to pin too much of it on Renz. We have plenty of "reality-challenged" around here.

Yeah:D , I guess your right, thanks, again.