Ethanol ball is ROLLING!

by **cavalierlwt** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:40 am

Bush spoke about this stuff the other night, and just a hour ago I saw a slick General Motors commercial touting E85 ethanol, and that they've got tons of cars already on the road. Commercial featured slick logos, buzzwords (flexifuel) etc.
I know it's not perfect (nothing is) but it looks like the Chicken vs the Egg aspect of this is finally breaking down!
Very exciting. I know nothing will happen overnight, but just to see a real beginning is very exciting.

by **cavalierlwt** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:42 am

Here's the link to their website, has the commercial link on there -- E85 on TV button
http://www.gm.com/company/onlygm/livegreengoyellow/

by **Wairudo Enjin** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:29 am

As I posted in another thread , Brazil already uses Ethanol and these vehicles and have for some time; there are several companies that make vehicles that use Ethanol. This is nothing new.

But, it is the future.

by **cavalierlwt** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 4:31 am

It's new in the US! One of our biggest problem is getting started. It wouldn't matter if Brazil had cars that ran on water, we've been stuck by inertia. It's tough to get people to buy cars when there's no fuel available, tough to get people to make fuel for a car that doesn't exist. Something has to kick it off (just like any technology). Looks like we might be breaking the hold of inaction.
And that my friend, is something new.
Up till now it just been talk about someday...
This is happening. Now will come a massive wave of naysayers. As long as GM and the others market it right, this should evolve into something big.

by **Buliwyf** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:21 am

promising

by **Wairudo Enjin** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:18 pm

Originally posted by cavalierlwt
It's new in the US! One of our biggest problem is getting started. It wouldn't matter if Brazil had cars that ran on water, we've been stuck by inertia. It's tough to get people to buy cars when there's no fuel available, tough to get people to make fuel for a car that doesn't exist. Something has to kick it off (just like any technology). Looks like we might be breaking the hold of inaction.
And that my friend, is something new.
Up till now it just been talk about someday...
This is happening. Now will come a massive wave of naysayers. As long as GM and the others market it right, this should evolve into something big.

\soapbox
Don't get me wrong, I think it is VERY important for the US to adopt this techonolgy!

And the sooner the better, since our dependence on oil from a very tumultuous part of the planet creates an extremely high risk to our economy, way of life, and well being.

What I AM saying is that it does NOT have to take nearly as long as they are proposing. The technology already exists, has been proven successful, and has been in use for quite some time. It is just a matter of the Government subsizing the installation of new equipment in gas stations to handle the new fuel and of course production plants. Without wanting to get into political waters....the cost of the Iraq war could have funded a great portion of the cost.

Additionally, once we have converted to producing ethanol, we signifcantly reduce, if not eliminate, our subsidation of farmers because they would have a constant, and ever growing market for crops that they could grow.

One of the main reasons that they have not done this is because of Big Business, the Oil Industry in this case, has too much influence on the government and are using their influence to slow this process down. They have done so for years. If we had done what the Brazilians, a MUCH less developed country, had done, we would no longer be addicted to oil. And, we would not be paying these exorbitant prices for gasoline, or any other form of related energy.

We should all be SHOUTING at our government for this process to move faster! 75% by 2020 is rediculous!

/soapbox

by **cavalierlwt** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:29 pm

I'm totally with you Wairudo. Technology was there, but we just (for many reasons, certainly including the ones you presented) couldn't get off our asses and start the process. After the 1973 oil embargo we passed a bill to get us going on this, I think it passed in 1975. It was a twenty year plan so it would have been complete in 1995! Oil prices dropped after the bill was passed, and everyone just sold the future up the river for a quick buck today. In spite of all the screw up and corruption, I'm glad to see the ice breaking on it. I honestly wasn't sure it would ever happen in my lifetime. It's a great strategy though, by GM. If they advertise enough to convince people that 100% we will all be running E85 then people will start to take the FlexFuel option (assuming GM starts offering it on most or all of their models in the next two years or so). That's the other great part: FlexFuel, so people feel safe in that it will run on regular gas now, and E85 in the future as more and more pumps are installed. I think I read the cost to the manufacturer for the E85 option is just $200-$300, so I think people will take the option to be ready for the future. Hopefully Ford stays fully onboard with the same exact plan, same standards (FlexFuel, yellow gas cap, etc). It will be a real boost for the US car industry too. Sometimes you gotta give people a reason to upgrade. Look at sales of HDTVs right now, going through the roof and it's giving people a reason to go out a buy a new TV, upgrade cable, get upscaling DVD player etc. One of things I've always said is that converting to a new system won't be an economic drag, it will be an economic boom.

by **PudriK** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:56 pm

Not to burst anyone's bubble, but Bush's proposal was for a 22% increase in the DOE's budget for R&D into several alternatives--a little less than $1B--with only $150M towards ethanol research. Hardly a manhattan project.

http://horizons.eraunews.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2006/02/11/43ee37bae1d01

The silver lining is at least the Republicans are paying lip service to alternative energy now, and that may encourage businesses to increase their R&D (where the real money is anyway), knowing that the government will probably be providing regulatory,legal, and possibly tax-incentive support.

I'm not getting rid of my premium-sucking Impreza any time soon.

Up until now, there hasn't been a whole lot of market support for ethanol--some studies have shown it would less energy efficient in terms of the energy required to grow and process the biomaterials to make fuel.

Now, not only scarcity, but uncertainty of supply because of troubles in the middle east are being priced into oil (the reason for so much profit being made, because the price reflects more than just the cost of getting it out of the ground)... so the market is making alternative energy more attractive.

by **cavalierlwt** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:58 pm

This is going forward regardless of the government's stance. This isn't a potential project, it's actually happening. My bubble remains intact. If the government want to put money toward fuel cell tech, that's fine. It won't affect the Ethanol situation.

Ethanol ball is ROLLING!

Ethanol ball is ROLLING!

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