A very important question

by **Ralph Wiggum** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 3:00 am

As some of you may know, I have recently put together a new computer. I have gotten some help on these boeard, and in general everything has worked fine. Recently I have had a problem and I need some compter-savvy advice.

The computer has been working since about April 8, 2004. Until recently, I noticed no problems in Battlfield Vietnam or 1942. I installed Rise of Nations at some point, and played it for at least a week with no problems. Recently I started having problems with RON. I would play RON for a while and eventually the game would hang: the screen would freeze and I would get a squealing noise from the speakers. The squealing would happen on its own, but occurred more frequently when I hit the keys. I looked up known issues with RON and assumed it was a game specific problem. I didn't worry about it too much because it only happened in RON. I unistalled and reinstalled RON but it continued. Still I didn't worry about it too much since it wasn't a huge deal, and I assumed it was just a problem with that game.

You may have guessed where I am going with this post, but I'll spell it out for you: just tonight the problem occurred in BFV. It happened twice within an hour, so I believe that it will happen again. Basically my computer locks up at some point but will continue to squeak when I hit keys. I have to reboot to get any control back at all. I didn't care when it was just a RON problem. It's a cool game, but not the end of the world if it gives me problems. Screw with my BF, however, and you really hit me where I live.

The only thing that is new is my install of the mobo drivers. I noted in the prvious thread that some of the things I had read indicated that problems would occur unless the mobo drivers were installed before the OS. Since that appears to be the only likely culprit, and since the comp is pretty new and doesn't have a lot of data on it, I am thinking of reformatting the harddrive and starting over. I would like to avoid that if anyone has any thoughts on what else might be causing my problems. If anyone has any idea that might spare me that ordeal I would appreciate them.

The specs are:
3.4 P4
9700 Pro
Two 120 Gig Seagate HD in Raid 0 array
Audigy 2 sound card
1 Gig DDR RAM

by **shockwave203** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 3:12 am

This is a problem that plagues many ATI card users, and is a problem that has yet to be fixed.

a lot of people have posted about having the exact same problem here: http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33752579

I've experienced this problem a lot as well. Sometimes the lockup with a blackscreen and screeching speakers will happen in BFV several times a day, and sometimes it may not happen for 3 weeks. It's very strange.

I use 2 monitors in my setup. I usually cloned the desktop (same image on my LCD and CRT) so that when I wanted to play BFV, I could simply turn off my LCD without fiddling around with any settings (my LCD has a bad response time). I experienced many lock-ups. Now when I want to play BFV, I disable my LCD and use my CRT as primary display, and I don't get any lockups. I havent for a long time, which leads me to believe that this is most likely a driver issue that needs to be fixed.

Some people have stopped the lock-ups by lowering their AGP settings in ATI smartgart (ATI control panel) to 4X instead of 8X (virtually no performance loss by the way

) and turning fastwrites OFF. I'm not sure if enabling/disabling VPU recovery will affect anything, but it's worth a try.

Hopefully you can get your lock-ups sorted out. Lots of people are having the exact same problem.

by **Bullhead** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 12:08 pm

A few thoughts:
1. Possibly heat-related? Maybe something is overheating, causing the lockups? Check the 3 key fans (CPU, GPU, and NB/chipset) for good operation, make sure they aren't clogged or anything. Also check to make sure heatsinks are on securely....

2. Since you update the chipset drivers, have you reinstalled the sound/vid drivers? I know ATI drivers are especially fickle about this detail, whenever you update the chipset drivers you need to reinstall the vid drivers as well. I suspect the same holds true for the audigy drivers.

If you want to try it, before doing a clean install again, you could try doing this (I'd back up data first, just in case):

1)Uninstall video drivers and sound drivers, WITHOUT rebooting. Then, reboot the computer, but make sure you go into safe mode.

2)Skip/cancel out of any device installs windows prompts you for. Run Driver cleaner, and have it remove all stuff for ATi and Creative. Also do the cab cleaner it comes with (under tools).
***note*** Lately I've been having issues with DC not killing all the files in the system32 folder, so on reboot windows reinstalls my 9800pro. I've worked around this by switching user accounts (logging off, then onto my administrators acct) while still in safe mode, after running the DC, then going to the system32 folder and deleting all the ati*.* files. Sometimes it won't let you delete one of them, but you can rename it. Log off, and go back to the other user acct and you should be able to delete it now.

3)Reboot to windows. Skip/cancel any hardware install wizards. Now the fun part, install of the chipset drivers. Hopefully you can remove them all at once (as you can with the nvida and VIA drivers), otherwise do it however intel allows. The key is not to reboot until they're all uninstalled. Reboot, but make sure you go into safe mode, otherwise you might crash windows (due to lack of core system drivers).

4)Now, if intel has any kind of uninstall util, or something similar, run it now (or again) to try and grab any leftover files. Once you've done all you can to rid the old stuff, Reinstall the chipset drivers. After install is complete, let it reboot to reg. windows.

5) Once the chipset stuff is done (sometimes takes 1-2 extra reboots), reinstall the vid and sound drivers, and hopefully all is well. It's about as close to a clean install as you can do, without actually reinstalling windows.

by **Ralph Wiggum** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 1:55 pm

Thanks for the advice guys. I read the Rage3d thread you posted Shockwave, but I'm not sure I am having the same symptoms. My screen doesn't go blue or black, it just freezes with the speakers intermittently squeaking.

I will check the heatsink and fans and try some of these less drastic driver options and see if it helps. I haven't reinstalled the ATI drivers, so that could be it. On the subject of heat, what is the best way for me to get a reading on the temp? I know how to do it in the bios, but I don't think that will help me too much.

The more I think of the timing of it, the more I think it may be tied to the chipset drivers. Even if that is the case, reinstalling all of my video and sound drivers seems like it could be the answer.

by **Edogg** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 2:29 pm

after exhausting all other possibilities, consider buying a new power supply. A defective/dieing psu will cause random system lock ups. The lockups will happen more often as time goes by. At first it will only lock up in system intensive applications, but it could progress to lighter apps such as IE or even the desktop.

Im not saying this is your specific problem, but it is a possibility.

by **Major SONAR** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 4:04 pm

It could be a heat problem. How soon after playing does it start?

Drivers could also be the problem. Could restore to a previous point? Do you have all the latest drivers? (Motherboard, VIA, sound card, NIC, etc.)

Sounds like a driver conflict or heat problem to me.

Good luck.

by **Ralph Wiggum** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 5:18 pm

The timing varies. Sometimes it happens very soon, sometimes not for 45 minutes, and sometimes not at all. The first time it occurred in BFV was last night.

I haven't had a chance to apply any of the fixes mentioned yet, but I'll report back. The more I think about it the more I think it started around the time I installed the chipset drivers. I am going to go back and reread an article I read about my mobo and its drivers and see if that offers any other tips, but I think my first step will be to uninstall/reinstall the video and sound card drivers. I have at least the 4.3 Catalysts for the video card. I am not certain I have the newest Audigy. Does anyone kow what the most recent Audigy drivers are (or alternatively the best/most stable if the newest ones aren't good)?

by **Ralph Wiggum** » Sat May 01, 2004 8:06 pm

I uninstalled and resintalled my ATI and soundcard drivers (I actually went ahead and installed the 4.4 calatysts instead of the 4.3 I had been using. This didn't help.

I thought I had a breakthrough when I changed the AGP settings from 8x to 4x, but the problem recurred. The game seemed to have runlonger than usual before it happened, but as I've noted it doesn't happen on anything like a regular schedule.

I believe all of my fans are working properly and that the heatsink is fixed properly to the processor.

A thought occurred to me that I think might allow me to avoid reinstalling windows. I first got this computer up and running on April 4 or so. My understanding is that XP system restore would allow me to turn back the clock to a prior point before I had installed anything on the computer (since it's been up and running for less than a month, it looks like I still have the ability to turn it back to day one.

As I've noted before, I believe my problem started around the time I installed the Intel Chipset Software Installation Utility about two weeks ago. According to articles and forums I have read, I should have installed the Intel Chipset Software Installation Utility immediately after installing XP. (I'm not sure what the mechanism is that could be causing me my problems, but the timing makes me think that this was the cause.) There is apparently a method for making things right even if you have done what I did, but it is more involved than I think I could handle.

My thought is that I could restore my system to day one before I had installed anything. I would then install the Intel software and proceed through all my other drivers and software. I have only installed 1942, BFV, Teamspeak, Nero, and maybe one or two other programs. Reinstalling all of these will be a hassle, but not as bad as having to uninstall and reinstall XP.

My question for our learned experts is this: does this make sense or am I on crack?

by **Ralph Wiggum** » Wed May 05, 2004 10:38 pm

I have just run the Microsoft memory test referred to in some other threads. According to the test, one of my DIMMs had 0 errors and one had 321423. I'm not a scientist, but I assume that is bad. I intend to switch the memory sticks and run the test again to confirm whether this is a correct reading. I thought I would ask whether this makes sense. Also, I still plan on making sure the software installation utility is installed correctly, but I think this may be my problem. One thing I have noticed, since I have been playing 1942 more, the freezing problem has not occurred at all in regular BF. I theorized that 1942 is not as memory intensive as the other games and that that is why it hasn't been an issue there. Does that make sense, or should a bad memory stick cause problems in everything?

by **RCinator** » Thu May 06, 2004 3:01 pm

Originally posted by Ralph Wiggum
I have just run the Microsoft memory test referred to in some other threads. According to the test, one of my DIMMs had 0 errors and one had 321423. I'm not a scientist, but I assume that is bad. I intend to switch the memory sticks and run the test again to confirm whether this is a correct reading. I thought I would ask whether this makes sense. Also, I still plan on making sure the software installation utility is installed correctly, but I think this may be my problem. One thing I have noticed, since I have been playing 1942 more, the freezing problem has not occurred at all in regular BF. I theorized that 1942 is not as memory intensive as the other games and that that is why it hasn't been an issue there. Does that make sense, or should a bad memory stick cause problems in everything?

Yes, memory errors are bad! Follow your swapping path for now and see what results you get.

FYI - System restore _should_ work just fine if it is indeed a driver issue. I've used it numerous times to bail my friends out of trouble. You also might want to consider pickin up a copy of Norton Ghost. It's like system restore on steroids.

by **Ralph Wiggum** » Thu May 06, 2004 5:52 pm

Well I switched the sticks to my other pair of DIMMs. This time I let the Microsoft memory tester (can't remember what it is called) run through two passes and it showed DIMM1 with 622821 errors and DIMM3 with 0 errors (I assume it just showed about twice as many errors because I let it run twice as long). I will probably flip them one more time (expecting to see errors in DIMM3 and none in DIMM1) just to make sure that it is that stick and not the motherboard itself.

The newegg people sound like they will be very reasonable on the return for new memory, but it will suck to be memoryless for a couple of days. My old computer was using RD RAM so I can't canibalize it to keep playing.

by **Ralph Wiggum** » Sat May 08, 2004 7:44 pm

I just ran the Windows Memory Diagnostic program one more time. This time I made sure that I flipped the sticks (putting the stick which the program indicated had errors into the other slot that had previously held the stick that the program said had zero errors).

This time the same slot (DIMM1) showed up with errors while the other slot showed zero errors. Does this make sense to anyone? I am going to send the memory back to newegg for replacement anyway, but these results don't make sense to me. It has me concerned that perhaps something isn't set up right about my memory in general. I am going to tinker with it, but would appreciate any input.

by **Edogg** » Sat May 08, 2004 7:56 pm

your dimm 1 slot is probably bad. Try putting your sticks in dimm 2 and 3.

by **Ralph Wiggum** » Sat May 08, 2004 8:09 pm

I don't think that is it Edogg. The first test I ran was in DIMM 0 and DIMM 2 (the blue ones). That one indicated errors in DIMM 0 and none in DIMM 2. For the second test I used DIMM 1 and DIMM 3 (the black ones). That test indicated problems in DIMM 1 and none in DIMM 3. For the last test, I flipped the memory sticks between DIMM 1 and DIMM 3 expecting to see errors in DIMM 3 because the test had indicated errors in DIMM 1 and now that stick would be in DIMM 3.

by **Edogg** » Sat May 08, 2004 8:17 pm

Originally posted by Ralph Wiggum
I don't think that is it Edogg. The first test I ran was in DIMM 0 and DIMM 2 (the blue ones). That one indicated errors in DIMM 0 and none in DIMM 2. For the second test I used DIMM 1 and DIMM 3 (the black ones). That test indicated problems in DIMM 1 and none in DIMM 3. For the last test, I flipped the memory sticks between DIMM 1 and DIMM 3 expecting to see errors in DIMM 3 because the test had indicated errors in DIMM 1 and now that stick would be in DIMM 3.

have you tried testing your memory in single channel mode?
its quite possible that your memory or your motherboard isnt liking dual channel for some reason.

A very important question

A very important question

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