High Gas prices=OPPORTUNITY

[cavalierlwt Profile]

From what I understand US car companies have had a tough time eeking out a profit, they say they are only moving cars due to low interest rates and cutting prices. Well, here's their chance. I think the price of gas will come down a bit, but it's going to stay withing 20 cents of the high for a long time.
Now is the time for car companies to get off their ass and work on improving gas mileage. Let see a company come out with an SUV that get 25 MPG in the city, 30+ on the highway, mabye a midsized car that get 30 in the city, 40 on the highway, those kinds of numbers. Do this while maintaining a reasonable zero to sixty, and voila, there's a reason for consumers to buy a new car. Japan did this (in a fashion) back in the mid 70's after the oil embargo that had us buying gas on only even day, or rationed amounts of gas. In came Japan with piece of s#*t cars that got good gas mileage and boom, they had big market share and a booming car industry almost overnight, all the while detroit kept pumping out huge, heavy cars, kinda like todays SUVs.
Either we can do it, or some other country can do it for us and take a bigger piece of the automotive market.

[deathBOB Profile]

hmmm no way you can make an 25/30 mpg SUV, their air resistis awful... My friend at school has an H2, and if he gets off the gas on the highway it really slows a lot

[cavalierlwt Profile]

No way? Cmon, no way has been said about a lot things. I'm not talking about putting a man on the moon, I'm talking about an SUV engine that puts out *almost* the same HP and yet gets 6-7 mpg more in the city. It can be done, someone will do it. There's plenty of countries out there that are great at engineering, let's not be the one to play catch-up this time.

[Jim0322 Profile]

George W and the other oil barons and their lobbies have it in their best interest to not let that happen. If all are vehicles used less gas they would be out millions of dollars.

Some car companies, Subaru the most recent addition, have taken advantage of regulatory loopholes on the minimum MPG by getting their vehicles classified as trucks. As trucks, they do not have to hold to the higher MPG standards of cars. All those SUVs out there are classified as trucks so they don't have to follow as stringent regulations about MPG. George W says big SUVs are good for the American way of life and the US economy. It is at least good for those in the oil business, both US oil and Mid east too.

Jim

[Colonel Ingus Profile]

Now Jim how dare you take such a narrow minded view.

Its also good for the car companies, the tire companies, hell even the automobile apholstery industry. Its the trickle down effetct:help:

[cavalierlwt Profile]

Yeah, GWB does nothing to push for a decrease in the average mpg, but neither did clinton. The national average mpg rose plenty under his admin. No admin is going to stop a car maker from making a modestly more fuel efficient engine, I assure you. Let's not start with the standard conspiracy theories. All I hear is defeatist attitudes. What are you folks gonna say if the Germans (fine engineers) or the Koreans, the Dutch ( a little shout out to one of regulars on this board!) or someone else delivers these vehicles? We would probably bitch about unfair trade practices or something. I don't know what the solution is, but I thought it would make nice Smoking Room Topic

[Xenius]

Whoever makes 'em, I'll buy em. Then I'll drive around in it and laugh at all the U.S. based companies that dropped the ball.

[LordShard]

Buy one of those new fangeled 50mpg cars.

[cavalierlwt Profile]

If they get the cost down, it'll be in consideration when I buy my next car. I currently drive a very small car that gets about 35 MPG, thank god because it's makes a huge difference at the pump (how often and how much I pay). Like I say, here is an opportunity, it will be interesting to see who is smart enough to take that opportunity.

[Cpl. Bingham]

It won't happen until were literally out of oil on the planet. Every country has too much vested in the oil trade, and they'll hold onto the industry until the oil is completely gone. You'd think the oil companies would smarten up and start investing in hydrogen plants and fuel-cell companies, but they seem mighty happy to ride their industry into the grave.

Hell, we have the technology now to have reliable, decent hydrogen powered cars. The problem is the oil companies want to stick to oil, so there's isn't an infusion of cash that would help hydrogen power really get off the ground and refine the technology so it didn't cost as much.

Here in Vancouver, the city has made up a plan to have hydrogen stations along our Sea To Sky Highway from Vancouver to Whistler, for the 2010 Olympics. It'll be interesting to see what comes of it, but you never know, it might be the catalyst the puts hydrogen power in the worlds eye.

[Jim0322 Profile]

Originally posted by Colonel Ingus
Now Jim how dare you take such a narrow minded view.

Its also good for the car companies, the tire companies, hell even the automobile apholstery industry. Its the trickle down effetct:help:

Making more fuel efficient cars/trucks would be good for all those things too. The oil industry would lose money though if less fuel were used because vehicles were more fuel efficient. I am hoping that hybrid technology is further developed and made less expensive and more common.

Jim

[LordShard]

Pssshaa. They'd had the technology to make 100 mpg cars for a real long time. Just they don't put it out.

Also, why don't we ask congress to make a bill that would require people to get SUV permits or something. Like everyone who buys a SUV is capable of driving them safely, or even needs a 5mpg vehicle. And as if they would ever take their SUV off the highways, which is where SUVs are very dangerous, because they turn over easy.

Also SUV=roadrage?

[Major SONAR Profile]

I'm not necessarily in favor of big cars/SUVs (own a Saturn myself) but it is a proven fact that in bigger cars, people are more likely to survive an accident.

Small cars = more deaths on the highways (and better gas mileage)

So I have no problem with SUV's; if that's what you want to drive. I have also heard/read that there is PLENTY of oil in the world to last for 100+ years. So lack of oil should not be an issue.

Yes gas powered cars cause pollution and I would like to see a reasonable aternative; and yes, I think big business (car makers) control the market, but I am a fat, content American, and I see no real reason to change.


:wall:

[RCglider Profile]

To put things in perspective, plus inject a bit of reality, not black helicopter conspiracy theories:

Necessity is the mother of invention.

1. We don't have enough refineries as it is now. If just one goes down, today's prices will seem like blue light specials. There's something called supply and demand. The economy is heating up, pushing up demand when the supply is low. The other problem is dependence on OPEC. Even if we were to double the MPG on vehicles, OPEC could easily obligue by further tightening of the spicket. The world is not running out of oil, and there's no shortage of politicians willing to put politics before serving their country, referring to preventing ALL new oil exploration in North America, including new technology to do it.

2. If the government forces car makers to build cars consumers don't want, two things will happen: we'll end up with pieces of junk like the 70's (due in part to forced govt emissions standards), and consumers won't buy them. To correct an error, Japanese cars were not junk, except to the UAW. Edward Deming brought his Quality principles to Japan in the 50's because the U.S. rejected him. Compare Japanese small cars from that era to U.S. cars: Vega, Pinto, etc......JUNK. It was the best thing to happen to the U.S. as it was a wake up call. During the 1980's U.S. quality improved immensely by adopting Deming's Quality philosophies and methods. It was a catchup game we had to win. I bought a new 1984 carbureted Dodge Colt (Mitsubishi) that got between 45-50 mpg highway, but I had no family and it was cost effective, plus very reliable. The U.S. competition had the Chevette (which I've also owned), Escort etc.....rattle traps compared to the Colt.
When the govt forces business to invest capital in one area, others will suffer. When the market requires it, car makers will fill the gap. Forcing them to build what the public doesn't want will not solve any problems.

3. Get off the GWB conspiracy theory nonsense. The same was said about his father. "No war for oil".....get real. If we went to war for oil, I wouldn't argue with that. However, we didn't take over Kuwait or the Saudi oil fields did we? Maybe we should have. GWB has as much control over oil prices as John Kerry does telling the truth, and that's very little. Why would he want high gas prices when it can only hurt his re-election prospects and cause inflation? That's just idiotic dribble. Even I didn't blame Clinton when prices shot up during his tenure. However, if GWB can apply pressure on OPEC to increase production, we still need more refineries to meet demand for fuel. We've been near 100% capacity for many years, now we are reaping the consequences of not preparing for it, Kalifornia leading the way. There is a lot of oil right here in North America, much of which can be extracted from abandoned oil wells from long ago.

4. The time for on-demand hydrogen powered cars is many years away, if ever. Like the 100 mpg carburetor myth, the claim of "big oil" suppressing this technology is urban legend. The current proposal to drive around in mini hydrogen bombs is both unsafe and impractical, not to mention the increased cost to produce them. Large buses may be more practical for this application however. I am currently working on a project on my own vehicle to increase mpg by xxx, decrease emissions by 95%, and no required maintenance/engine mods burning Aquanol and/or standard gasoline using a technology not yet marketed for automobiles. I'll let you know how it fares for all interested.


Believe it or not, current technology applied to today's automobiles for mpg is about maxed out. A normally aspirated engine, fired by a conventional spark plug ignition system requires an air:fuel ratio small enough to run properly; i.e. without detonation and damage to engine components. There are other ways to increase mpg, but not on a mass scale; I'm working on one such project. So, for the most part, increased mpg must be acquired by other means; lighter weight, hybrids etc. etc. Auto companies are not working in collusion with oil companies to keep mpg down, please come back to reality. If Ford could gain market share by introducing a midsized car that got 40+ mpg with good performance, safety AND RELIABILITY, they'd do it. Do you really believe Ford is happy that Toyota is the #2 automaker now??? Having worked in and out of the auto/aerospace industry for the past 21 years, the conspiracy nut theories are comical, but the number of people believing them is scary.
Hybrids will become more poplular, but they have their limitations, one being sticker price. The other is the high cost of maintenance, which has yet to be determined.

My2c

[TriX Profile]

Originally posted by cavalierlwt
From what I understand US car companies have had a tough time eeking out a profit, they say they are only moving cars due to low interest rates and cutting prices. Well, here's their chance. I think the price of gas will come down a bit, but it's going to stay withing 20 cents of the high for a long time.
Now is the time for car companies to get off their ass and work on improving gas mileage. Let see a company come out with an SUV that get 25 MPG in the city, 30+ on the highway, mabye a midsized car that get 30 in the city, 40 on the highway, those kinds of numbers. Do this while maintaining a reasonable zero to sixty, and voila, there's a reason for consumers to buy a new car. Japan did this (in a fashion) back in the mid 70's after the oil embargo that had us buying gas on only even day, or rationed amounts of gas. In came Japan with piece of s#*t cars that got good gas mileage and boom, they had big market share and a booming car industry almost overnight, all the while detroit kept pumping out huge, heavy cars, kinda like todays SUVs.
Either we can do it, or some other country can do it for us and take a bigger piece of the automotive market.

well from what i understand there is supposed to be hybrid trucks comming soon. they use a part hybrid engine with a normal gas engine. but they do get a sufficiently better MPG and still put out big BHP and TRQ.

but i don't know if i would want my 350z to be a hybrid. eventhough i am payin for gas through the nose.