Outsourcing

[Colonel Ingus Profile]

And another link with some relevant info.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040406/bs_nm/economy_layoffs_challenger_dc

Mind you this is not good news. It is merely news. Remember earlier where it was pointed out how when politicians talk about spending cuts they are talking about cuts in spending increases, not actually spending less. This is along the same lines. Less people are being laid off but there are still people being laid off.

Which is going to happen in any kind of dynamic market place no matter what. But at least it has reached a low and hopefully will continue to sink.

[Colonel Ingus Profile]

Halfway down the column

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/business/columnists/dave_beal/8343286.htm

"DELUXE DECISION

Executive pay critics are asking shareholders at Deluxe Corp. to vote on a proposal to curb the pay packages of their top executives.

The proposal, slated to be presented at Deluxe's annual meeting May 4 at the company's headquarters in Shoreview, comes from the pension benefit fund of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers.

Deluxe directors unanimously oppose the proposition.

The fund, which holds 2,196 shares, wants to cap the salaries and bonuses of senior executives; replace their stock options with restricted share grants; limits those grants; restrict severance payments; and require disclose of key parts of the company's executive pay plan.

The proposal's backers cite the soaring gap between the pay of CEOs and average workers at large corporations. They also say the company needs to peg its pay more to long-term performance rather than to the short-term.

The board counters that the company's pay-for-performance plans have been working well, that it must retain flexibility in its pay practices to attract and retain competent executives and that it already requires shareholder approval for various pay programs."

Evidently shareholders also share my concerns. note the line about long term growth. I believe the line about "shareholder approval" to be bunk. As some one already stated most stock is voted by proxy.

[PudriK Profile]

Gotta love it. As much as I hate them, historically, only unions have managed to curb executive compensation excess. I was thinking about this recently... nowadays, businesses can avoid union workers by offshoring. Perhaps once pay differentials are equalized across countries, there will be an international movement of organized labor. That's probably a long way off into the future--once China and India are modernized, next will be Africa and South America as sources of cheap, non-union labor.

Your first link supports my orginal hypothesis, Ingus, that it's our poor education system to blame. 50%!! I thought maybe it was just my school, but according to Wired, 50% of all science, engineering, and math students in the US are foreign. Is it any wonder we're losing out internationally.

Of course, the solution is NOT to kick them out. Then we would have to lower our university standards, and we'd be worse off. Instead, we must improve our primary and secondary education systems, AND make all efforts to motivate the foreigners who learn in the US to stay here and join the American work force.

[Colonel Ingus Profile]

Yeah I was in agreeance with you on the education but I found that report demoralizing.

I actually work with a girl here who tailored her education to get a degree in something called "environmental awareness" WTF!?!?! Hell you can take courses in Klingon nowadays. I don't say ban the foreigners who are going to come here to get a technical education and be a hard worker. No I say bring 'em on!

What we should be doing is EXPORTING the people that want degrees in "environmental awareness". The environment here is just dandy. And if they go to places like China and India where the environment is trashed they can have real things to complain about!. And as an added bonus if they can force those types of countries to introduce environmental friendly policy then doing business over there isn't as profitable and who knows how many jobs that will save here?

Hmm Maybe we shouldn't be sending soldiers to the Middle East. Maybe we should be sending Greenpeace, PETA, and the GDF to China and India instead.

And while no means a fan of unions they do serve a good purpose in the right time and place.

Unions are going to have a tough go of it in India and China for unskilled labor. China uses prison labor for the ultimate in human resource cost cutting measures. Need more workers? Just sentence more people! And they both have about a billion potential scabs waiting just outside to get work.

[Tommy Boy Profile]

I used to work for a Contract Selling Organization or CSO in teh pharmaceutical industry. The company was booming and all that they did was outsourcing...

There is a lot of money to be made by independent contractors who get to write off a lot of business expenses who are willing to be flexible with contracts and the products/comapnies that they represent.

I actually think that it is a good system and having seen both sides of the coin, think that this option is a good one for most (not all) employers to consider. It gives them the flexibility to bolster their workforce or reduce it without compromising their pricing structure.

[RCglider Profile]

Originally posted by PudriK
Gotta love it. As much as I hate them, historically, only unions have managed to curb executive compensation excess. I was thinking about this recently... nowadays, businesses can avoid union workers by offshoring. Perhaps once pay differentials are equalized across countries, there will be an international movement of organized labor. That's probably a long way off into the future--once China and India are modernized, next will be Africa and South America as sources of cheap, non-union labor.

Your first link supports my orginal hypothesis, Ingus, that it's our poor education system to blame. 50%!! I thought maybe it was just my school, but according to Wired, 50% of all science, engineering, and math students in the US are foreign. Is it any wonder we're losing out internationally.

Of course, the solution is NOT to kick them out. Then we would have to lower our university standards, and we'd be worse off. Instead, we must improve our primary and secondary education systems, AND make all efforts to motivate the foreigners who learn in the US to stay here and join the American work force.

Union membership has been shrinking for many years, and is only about 13% of the workforce. I worked in union shops for over 15 years. Companies don't have to move offshore to avoid unions, what the heck are you talking about? My plant right now is outsourcing.....to Americans. The reason? Yep, you guessed it.

I'm not anti-union as there are situations where they were and are needed. However, many of them priced themselves out of a job. Plus, they tend to breed laziness and discontent. They protect the bad workers. There's no inventive to be better than the next guy because everyone makes the same. No sense in arguing this one; I've witnessed it time and time again. If someone gets a bug up their rear, just see how little work will get done. Nowadays many unions have two and 3 tiered pay scales. So much for "brotherhood". My main gripe is with union leaders, who are so left wing it's silly, not to mention the corruption and propaganda BS they shove down your throat. If you dare to disagree with their politics, you might end up shall I say....corrected? Then there's the Democrat campaign....err I mean.....union dues. Be good little robots, vote the way you are told and all is well.

I certainly hope your solution to "fixing" our schools isn't throwing more money at them. Let's see, what's the most powerful labor union in the U.S.??

[Colonel Ingus Profile]

I have to agree one hundred percent with everything you said about Union shops. Been there, done that, didn't like it.

My solution for schools? Private education. No vouchers, No taxes and i pay the school I chose to educate my kids. Of course your "most powerful labor union in the US" is also one of the most powerful lobby groups so programs to expand private education are facing an uphill battle.

And how about getting rid of that union totally. You are dead on when you say Unions priced themselves out of work. These people are overpaid to fail continiously year in and year out. How about we fire them when they can't teach?

I couldn't agree more about Union protecting dead weight. I won't rant and rave here right now as I am sure you have many simlar stories.

[PudriK Profile]

That's exactly why I hate unions, RC, all those reasons you mentioned. But historically, they have been the only market force strong enough to counter the gradual pooling of wealth at the top of the food chain. It's either that, or progressive taxation. I keep looking for a better way than these two; somehow, me must figure out how to do it. I don't think it's healthy in the long run if wealth distribution continues along its current trend.

I agree school choice is the answer, but disagree that it should be completely private. Vouchers are a great idea. One of the strengths of the American system is that everbody has almost equivalent access to education, up to high school. If it was completely private, poor students would be S.O.L., esp. if their parents decide to spend the money on bling-bling instead of their kid's education. Not that poor kids are receiving a quality education as it is, but at least they have access to some services outside of their parents' purview.

We have to accept that some transfer of wealth from the rich to the poor is a good thing for society in general. For example, in order to provide an at least somewhat skilled workforce for our factories and services, and goodness knows, voting population, it is in the best interest of the wealthy to pay some taxes to support the education of others' children.

I don't think charity would cover it. Studies have shown that the wealthy tend to give most of their charity money to services that benefit them (of course), like concert halls, museums, arts, etc. Gov't is the only entity that can force them to give some money to public service organizations, and I think doing so is a necessary evil. Let's face it, we have to do some things for society in general, unless you want to go back to being serfs slaving on some "noble's" land. It's in our and society's best interest. If everything was "pay your own way," then we would just expect the rich to pony up their own police forces, fire protection, sewage, etc. It's a matter of where you draw the line between ncessary public service and irresponsible welfare.

I would propose a system where taxes are collected, flat, progresive, whatever, and every parent receives a, say, $6,000 voucher good for an education at any school, or for purchase of home schooling supplies. (I can forsee a little corruption in home-school "field trips.") If you want to send your kid to a more expensive school, you pay the difference. Of course, the voucher price would be scaled to different educational levels, and areas of the country, to reflect higher cost of employment in NY vice KY.

Teacher's Union---screw them. The fact that you are required to join them just to teach in public school is an outrage.