US soldiers torturing prisoners
Fri Apr 30, 2004 3:23 pm
This article was disturbing to me, but unfortunately not surprising.
OUTRAGE AT AMERICAN TORTURE OF IRAQI PRISONERS
From Anthony Harwood, US Editor, In New York
VIDEO footage of US soldiers torturing Iraqi prisoners of war horrified America yesterday.
The TV stills showed a hooded captive standing on a box with wires attached to his hands, and naked prisoners stacked in a human pyramid while jeering troopers look on laughing.
Six soldiers now face court martial and jail. One allegedly boasted that the captives "broke within hours". Seven others, including a general, are suspended from duty and may be disciplined.
ORDEAL: Prisoner on box with wires attatched to his hands
Shocked Army spokesman Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt said: "I can't make excuses for this. We're appalled. These photos are dismaying."
TV network CBS said the prisoners were filmed late last year at notorious Abu Ghraib jail, Saddam's former torture HQ in western Baghdad, where the US is holding 4,400 detainees.
The prisoner standing on the box was told that if he fell off he would be electrocuted. One of the men in the "pyramid" had an Arab insult written in English on his skin.
HUMILIATION: Soldiers grin behind the pyramid of captives
Other captives were forced to pose in humiliating positions, some of them simulating sex acts, as soldiers gave the thumbs up.
Army Reserve Staff Sergeant Chip, who is accused of striking detainees and ordering them to beat each other, was seen sitting on a prisoner.
He allegedly boasted in an email to his family: "We had a very high rate with our styles of getting them to talk. They ended up breaking within hours."
Yesterday Frederick said he would deny abuse, claiming he was not shown Geneva Convention rules on how to treat captives.
VILE: Iraqi PoWs are forced to parade before their jeering captors
He said: "We had no support, no training whatsoever.
"I kept asking my chain of command for things like rules and regulations. It just wasn't happening." The soldiers, from the 800th Military Police Brigade, were arrested after the video images were sent to a friend who handed them to authorities.
The friend told investigators: "There are some things going on at Abu Ghraib that I can't live with."
Brig Gen Kimmitt said: "These pictures may reflect the actions of individuals. But, by God, it doesn't reflect my army.
"If we can't hold ourselves up as an example of how to treat people with dignity and respect, we can't ask that other nations do that to our soldiers."
Former Marine Lieutenant Colonel Bill Cowan warned: "We'll be paid back for this after these people are let out."
BRUTAL: Woman soldier points at genitals of hooded and naked Iraqis
The charges faced by the six soldiers include dereliction of duty, cruelty, maltreatment, assault and indecent acts with another person.
Among the officers under investigation is 800th Brigade's commander, Brigadier General Janice Karpinski.
CBS broadcast the pictures on its show 60 Minutes early yesterday. Last night they were shown on the BBC 6 O'Clock News.
OUTRAGE AT AMERICAN TORTURE OF IRAQI PRISONERS
From Anthony Harwood, US Editor, In New York
VIDEO footage of US soldiers torturing Iraqi prisoners of war horrified America yesterday.
The TV stills showed a hooded captive standing on a box with wires attached to his hands, and naked prisoners stacked in a human pyramid while jeering troopers look on laughing.
Six soldiers now face court martial and jail. One allegedly boasted that the captives "broke within hours". Seven others, including a general, are suspended from duty and may be disciplined.
ORDEAL: Prisoner on box with wires attatched to his hands
Shocked Army spokesman Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt said: "I can't make excuses for this. We're appalled. These photos are dismaying."
TV network CBS said the prisoners were filmed late last year at notorious Abu Ghraib jail, Saddam's former torture HQ in western Baghdad, where the US is holding 4,400 detainees.
The prisoner standing on the box was told that if he fell off he would be electrocuted. One of the men in the "pyramid" had an Arab insult written in English on his skin.
HUMILIATION: Soldiers grin behind the pyramid of captives
Other captives were forced to pose in humiliating positions, some of them simulating sex acts, as soldiers gave the thumbs up.
Army Reserve Staff Sergeant Chip, who is accused of striking detainees and ordering them to beat each other, was seen sitting on a prisoner.
He allegedly boasted in an email to his family: "We had a very high rate with our styles of getting them to talk. They ended up breaking within hours."
Yesterday Frederick said he would deny abuse, claiming he was not shown Geneva Convention rules on how to treat captives.
VILE: Iraqi PoWs are forced to parade before their jeering captors
He said: "We had no support, no training whatsoever.
"I kept asking my chain of command for things like rules and regulations. It just wasn't happening." The soldiers, from the 800th Military Police Brigade, were arrested after the video images were sent to a friend who handed them to authorities.
The friend told investigators: "There are some things going on at Abu Ghraib that I can't live with."
Brig Gen Kimmitt said: "These pictures may reflect the actions of individuals. But, by God, it doesn't reflect my army.
"If we can't hold ourselves up as an example of how to treat people with dignity and respect, we can't ask that other nations do that to our soldiers."
Former Marine Lieutenant Colonel Bill Cowan warned: "We'll be paid back for this after these people are let out."
BRUTAL: Woman soldier points at genitals of hooded and naked Iraqis
The charges faced by the six soldiers include dereliction of duty, cruelty, maltreatment, assault and indecent acts with another person.
Among the officers under investigation is 800th Brigade's commander, Brigadier General Janice Karpinski.
CBS broadcast the pictures on its show 60 Minutes early yesterday. Last night they were shown on the BBC 6 O'Clock News.
Fri Apr 30, 2004 3:25 pm
Link broken TB 
Fri Apr 30, 2004 3:26 pm
yeah, I know...I cut and paste the article
Fri Apr 30, 2004 3:27 pm
Fri Apr 30, 2004 3:37 pm
This happened with the Canadian army in Somalia too. The problem lies with human nature, which is not as far removed from animal nature as we like to think. If these people had been born in Germany in 1920, you would have found them guards in concentration camps. Certainly makes it harder to judge others when it happens with your own guys.
Torture is still common prectice in lots of countries. In 2002 a Canadian citizen returning home via the US was extradited towards Syria, his country of origin, where he was imrpisoned and tortured without any kind of trial or due process. He's now back here and tells horror stories.
Torture is still common prectice in lots of countries. In 2002 a Canadian citizen returning home via the US was extradited towards Syria, his country of origin, where he was imrpisoned and tortured without any kind of trial or due process. He's now back here and tells horror stories.
Fri Apr 30, 2004 3:40 pm
yeah, you are right Chacal. I guess that it is human nature, but it is troubling to think that people can still do those things to each other. Maybe I am not enough of a realist, but it frightens me a bit that other humans are not only capable, but willing to do these things to each other.
And yes, I remember the Canadian example with the airborne...same thing as this.
And yes, I remember the Canadian example with the airborne...same thing as this.
Fri Apr 30, 2004 3:56 pm
Like I said in another thread, I think that the US should hand these corrupt, inhumane individuals over to the Hague for trial. They are war criminals, plain and simple. Anything less would not be sufficient.
Fri Apr 30, 2004 3:56 pm
It is human nature...
However, as an American I don't like the thought of our troops humiliating/torturing the enemy. I'd like to think that we (as Americans) are better than that. Guess I was wrong.
I would like to think that this is not a representation of all our soldiers, but merely a handful of men that made extremely poor choices. I certainly believe they should be punished for their actions and relieved from service. (i.e. Kicked out of the Army)
Otherwise I still support our troops and their efforts in Iraq.
However, as an American I don't like the thought of our troops humiliating/torturing the enemy. I'd like to think that we (as Americans) are better than that. Guess I was wrong.
I would like to think that this is not a representation of all our soldiers, but merely a handful of men that made extremely poor choices. I certainly believe they should be punished for their actions and relieved from service. (i.e. Kicked out of the Army)
Otherwise I still support our troops and their efforts in Iraq.
Fri Apr 30, 2004 4:09 pm
Gen. Kimmit said what I thought - "I can't make excuses for this. We're appalled. These photos are dismaying." He's right. There are no excuses to be made for this. It was absolutely a disgusting, horrible, cruel thing to do, and the soldiers who did it should be punished.
It's certainly NOT a representation of our soldiers. Most of them are the epitome of honor. The perpetrators of these acts should be shipped home to Ft. Leavenworth, tried, and thrown in the brig for 30 years.
Originally posted by Major SONAR
I would like to think that this is not a representation of all our soldiers, but merely a handful of men that made extremely poor choices.
It's certainly NOT a representation of our soldiers. Most of them are the epitome of honor. The perpetrators of these acts should be shipped home to Ft. Leavenworth, tried, and thrown in the brig for 30 years.
Fri Apr 30, 2004 4:20 pm
I totally agree with Murg. If the US gov't insists on calling their operations in Iraq a 'war', then those detainees are prisoners of said war, and the guards involved are guilty of war crimes.
But I would like to think that cases such as this (and the disgraceful actions of our Canadian airborne troops) are examples of the need for better discipline or tighter psych screening, not indicitive of soldiers as a whole.
But I would like to think that cases such as this (and the disgraceful actions of our Canadian airborne troops) are examples of the need for better discipline or tighter psych screening, not indicitive of soldiers as a whole.
Fri Apr 30, 2004 4:33 pm
I agree with Folic. The army will not treat this lightly, and most likely these people will be doing time in Leavenworth, and end up as felons, not to mention paraded in front of the nation in dishonor.
There's always a few screwoffs around who make the whole look bad by their actions
There's always a few screwoffs around who make the whole look bad by their actions
Fri Apr 30, 2004 4:53 pm
And now UK soldiers as well, disgusting behaviour I hope they throw away the key, don't come back you are not welcome here any more!
Fri Apr 30, 2004 4:54 pm
Oh they'll pay. If not to save political face but because we have laws against behaviors like that. The UCMJ will wield it's justice as it should.
Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:13 pm
Yeap sad thing is there from my hometown, 372nd MP out of Cresaptown, MD. Kind of glad I didnt join that MP unit when I moved back here. Funny thing is that unit is the top ranked MP unit in the U.S.
Sun May 02, 2004 4:55 am
I do not agree with what the guards did at all. They should be punished to the full extent of military law, which is much harsher than civilian law. Having said that this is how they torture Americans. http://craigpages3.100megsfree5.com/JPG/Iraq/Iraq_Hidden_From_USA.html
Please don’t flame me here just trying to show the other side of the equation.
VERY Graphic
Please don’t flame me here just trying to show the other side of the equation.
VERY Graphic