Weed Yes/no

[Burningwick]

Originally posted by Dragon Fart
so your saying if this guy was riding a bike , joging, playing basketball he woulda died also ? sounds like he was gonna die anyway if thats the case. If your heart cant handle a higher rate. . . . . .

i donno maybe im just high

so everyone be aware , smoke pot at your own risk. Play football ride in your car dancing all can be a very dangerous so do these without getting an elevated heart rate or death can occur.

This is obviously a gross over-simplification of the principles involved. One thing you need to take into account is the amount of increase in heart rate. Bumping your bpm by 40 and bumping it by 140 are two totally different situations.

What happens if there is an underlying heart condition and a person undergoes very strenuous exercise? Well, sometimes, they can just drop dead. We see this occasionally with left ventricular hypertrophy and young athletes but this is very rare. However, what is MUCH more common is that they get some chest pain, stop the activity (key point), and get it checked out. What happens if you have an underlying heart condition and you have introduced a chemical into your body that is driving your heart rate up (and thus your cardiac oxygenation down)? Maybe just some chest pain if you didn't introduce too much of the chemical. However, if you did take too much, a heart attack can occur. What's the difference between the two situations? With exercise, you can tell that there is a problem and discontinue the exercise. With the drug, you can tell there is a problem, but you can't just magically tell the drug to go away. It has a certain half-life in your system and you're going to have to wait it out. If you've taken too much, and you have a heart condition (that you may be unaware of), there's not much you can do. Unlike if you were exercising.

[Dragon Fart]

So let me get this strait,
your saying that a guy never exercised
never rode a bike
never played any sports
couldn't drink more then 2 cups of coffee
and in the rare instance
some type of heart condition
that he heart couldn't handle 140 bpm
and HE NEVER KNEW ABOUT.
and non of his doctors ever detected
during just a routine visits
and in the rarer still
takes a hit of just weed and dies ?

wow now that's a shocker
Now ive heard of sports players
dying from heart attacks after doing coke or heroin
A girl drowning internally from drinking to much water on ecstasy
ive known people that have done both (speed-ball)
and lived. Some have died, some are on there way there.

shit my heart rate has to be 120 just sitting here writing this
and im not ston e.e... . . u m mmmmm
<-----exhale----------->
( HEY I NEVER INHALED )

ok ,, ,, , were was I ?
ohh my heart rate . .. well its a . .. <120 now
so I donno seems a lil bit of a "shot in hell" if you ask me
but ill be sure to say my prayers tonight
because you never know when its time for you
to check out

[S.S. N Profile WebsiteICQ]

wick's playin scientist, i wont deny it certainly could happen.
i think somebody spiked the weed with lycol or raid or somethin...ooo look at all the pretty crystals on my bud.

-
takes a hit of just weed and dies ?
-

some people, just cant hang.

live from the opium den,

[Burningwick]

Originally posted by Dragon Fart
So let me get this strait,
your saying that a guy never exercised
never rode a bike
never played any sports
couldn't drink more then 2 cups of coffee
and in the rare instance
some type of heart condition
that he heart couldn't handle 140 bpm
and HE NEVER KNEW ABOUT.
and non of his doctors ever detected
during just a routine visits
and in the rarer still
takes a hit of just weed and dies ?

wow now that's a shocker
Now ive heard of sports players
dying from heart attacks after doing coke or heroin
A girl drowning internally from drinking to much water on ecstasy
ive known people that have done both (speed-ball)
and lived. Some have died, some are on there way there.

shit my heart rate has to be 120 just sitting here writing this
and im not ston e.e... . . u m mmmmm
<-----exhale----------->
( HEY I NEVER INHALED )

ok ,, ,, , were was I ?
ohh my heart rate . .. well its a . .. <120 now
so I donno seems a lil bit of a "shot in hell" if you ask me
but ill be sure to say my prayers tonight
because you never know when its time for you
to check out

***SIGH***
Well, I gave the quick and dirty answer to the debate but I see I should have been a bit more thorough. Alright, let's address your qualifiers for the 'shot in hell' situation. First off, we're not talking about 140 bpm. We're talking about an increase (such as 140) above the normal resting rate. In this case, we'd be looking at a rate of around 200 bpm. No, two cups of coffee would not do this. Caffeine will cause a bump in bpm but nothing very dramatic.

It is very possible for someone with a congenital heart defect not to know that they have it. Sometimes they're picked up by physicians when the patient is a baby; often they are not. After you pass the toddler years, how often does the average kid see a doctor? Not very often. Most young people don't schedule routine visits. That's why many of these heart defects go undetected. And that's assuming that the defect is emitting a murmur that can be heard in the first place.

And what about your qualifiers about the person never exercising or riding a bike or playing a sport? Earlier, I mentioned a couple possibilities that could happen with a young person with a heart condition who exercised too hard. These included instant death and chest pain which brings them to a physician. Would the chest pain necessarily bring them to a physician? Heck no. Most young people think they are indestructible and dismiss most physical complaints unless they really get in their way. A little angina may not be that devastating and will go away once they rest for a little bit. Is that the only way that a heart condition could present while exercising? Again, no. A strong possibility is that it could simply present as fatigue. The person would probably conclude that they were just out of shape. The exercise would be stopped due to fatigue before the heart would be harmed. It could also present as shortness of breath. There are other ways it could present but, I'm not going to bore you with the details of all that. There are so many ways that a heart defect could present with exercise (if at all) that one cannot conclude that exercise would automatically alert you to the presence of one.

Suffice it to say, it is not uncommon for people with heart conditions to go through life completely unaware of them. It's tragic when they first present as a heart attack following the use of marijuana or (more commonly) cocaine or other drugs. Now, back to the case we were originally discussing. Did this kid have a heart condition that lead to his death once he used marijuana? Maybe. Was the marijuana he used laced with something? Maybe. Was his death totally unrelated to all of this and the story only told by the coroner in order to scare some kid straight? Again, maybe. Have I wasted too much time on this thread? Definitely.

[Dragon Fart]

mann. .
first of all no way
im i gonna read all that. thats like homework
and i never did that either.

but theres also no way that POT
can make your heart rate go up to 200 bpm
not posible

not even the anxiaty oone could create being stoned could do that. COKE YES or anyform of. First hand experence allways speaks louder then anything else.

more people have choked to death on steaks
thats fer sure

[Burningwick]

Originally posted by Dragon Fart
mann. .
first of all no way
im i gonna read all that. thats like homework
and i never did that either.

but theres also no way that POT
can make your heart rate go up to 200 bpm
not posible

not even the anxiaty oone could create being stoned could do that. COKE YES or anyform of. First hand experence allways speaks louder then anything else.

more people have coked to death on steaks
thats fer sure

Well, you were trying to poke holes in the short form of the argument so you got the long form. I never said that pot would make your bpm go up to 200; just used that as an example. What I did say is that new users of marijuana experience an increase in heart rate (variable by person) that could effect those with an underlying heart condition.

Finally, first-hand experience is a TERRIBLE thing to rely on. Why? Because our own experience is statistically insignificant. Fortunately, science and medicine learned this long ago.

[Dragon Fart]

Medical science learnd that weed can cause death ?
this is a first to me
when did they determine this?
if its not in JAMA then quit reading those
other medical books your studing.
dont belive everything you read.
experence life for yourself


hummm

life experence
you cant learn from a book

untill you smokum the peace pipe
and partake in the festivites
its something youll never know

[Starlight]

Attention everyone!!!!

Please make sure you see your doctor before smoking marijuana!

Incase of any undetected heart problems!

[s.s. one person Profile]

this has nothing to do with weed or anything on the subject but this is by far the bigest thred i have ever seen

[Burningwick]

Originally posted by Dragon Fart
Medical science learnd that weed can cause death ?
this is a first to me
when did they determine this?
if its not in JAMA then quit reading those
other medical books your studing.
dont belive everything you read.
experence life for yourself
hummm
life experence
you cant learn from a book
untill you smokum the peace pipe
and partake in the festivites
its something youll never know

Glad I could be of service in helping your medical awareness. Why do you believe that JAMA is the most authoritative source out there? Because it is the one that the lay public has heard about? Of course I don't believe everything I read. I've been trained in many different schools as to how to critically evaluate new research and how to correlate it with current knowledge.

I agree with you that life cannot be experienced in full just by reading about it. However, I don't think I personally could enjoy life in full without educating myself as well as getting out there and living it. There are many careers out there that require a high degree of sacrifice and drive. Marijuana has been shown (yes, in medical journals) to decrease drive. I need all the drive I can get for what I want to do in life. So, I'll sacrifice any supposed benefits from a joint and reap the rewards that I personally would rather have. Different people want different things out of life.

[SilverSurfer Profile Website]

mmmmmmm

[AnimalCracka]

Who would have thought that such a simple thread would get such a response.

[Burningwick]

Originally posted by *AnimalMutha*
Who would have thought that such a simple thread would get such a response.

I thought for sure it was going to die a quiet death about a month ago. But no.......

[El Cid]

Originally posted by Burningwick
I thought for sure it was going to die a quiet death about a month ago. But no.......

Yeah, I second that.

[s.s. one person Profile]

but no i just had to keep on liveing...... damn how rude or it.