Wed May 12, 2004 1:01 pm
Originally posted by Major SONAR
BUT no one was actually KILLED or TORTURED or MUTILATED!!! Publically humiliated... yes, but not much more than that.
Do you really believe this? I don't for one second...we have only seen what we were allowed to see. I am sure that there was much more disturbing stuff that went on, and frankly, I don't even want to see it. I can't watch the video of the American being killed, just like I couldn't watch the video of the Iraquis being shot from the helicopter....nor can I watch people dragging lifeless bodies through the streets and playing with severed heads of the enemy like they were trophies or shrines.
I look at the Canadian example. We had our Canadian airborne regiment go through a similar situation where "prisoners" under their watch were tortured, humiliated, abused and in some cases, killed. It was alarmingly identical to what is happening now.
Like I said earlier, I am not saying that anyone is better or worse than the other, I just am very disturbed to learn that we, as humans, are capable of doing these terrible things to each other...maybe I am just naive or have too much faith/hope in the human race.
Wed May 12, 2004 1:03 pm
I doubt if the USA will reinstate the draft anytime soon. I'm glad our country has a VOLUNTARY army. Hell, if you don't want to fight, DON'T JOIN!!
Actually I've heard rumors that enlistment is up. Hmm.. imagine that....
I think it's called PATRIOTISM... I think most Americans fail to realize that Freedom ISN'T FREE. The reason you and I have freedom today is because a lot of American blood was spilled. Was it always for the right reasons. NO. The way I see it --- either you have faith in your government or you don't.
Let's see.... we were attacked 7 times during the Clinton years and how did we respond? Launching a few missiles during the Monica Lewinski saga... Personally I think this emboldened the Alkita (sp?) and others into thinking they could do anything and we (USA) would never retaliate.
Like it or not, we're in Iraq. If we leave now the Alkita will just move in and we'll have another 9/11 to deal with. It's unfortunate that we have lost over 700 American soldiers, but in the scheme of things.. that's VERY minor. Compare that number to any number of soldiers killed in previous wars. 700 dead is miniscule (I'm not making light of the soldiers killed).
Did Saddam have anything to do with 9/11? I have no clue, but I have to say I like Bush's response in Afganastan and can only hope he made the right choice in Iraq.
Actually I've heard rumors that enlistment is up. Hmm.. imagine that....
I think it's called PATRIOTISM... I think most Americans fail to realize that Freedom ISN'T FREE. The reason you and I have freedom today is because a lot of American blood was spilled. Was it always for the right reasons. NO. The way I see it --- either you have faith in your government or you don't.
Let's see.... we were attacked 7 times during the Clinton years and how did we respond? Launching a few missiles during the Monica Lewinski saga... Personally I think this emboldened the Alkita (sp?) and others into thinking they could do anything and we (USA) would never retaliate.
Like it or not, we're in Iraq. If we leave now the Alkita will just move in and we'll have another 9/11 to deal with. It's unfortunate that we have lost over 700 American soldiers, but in the scheme of things.. that's VERY minor. Compare that number to any number of soldiers killed in previous wars. 700 dead is miniscule (I'm not making light of the soldiers killed).
Did Saddam have anything to do with 9/11? I have no clue, but I have to say I like Bush's response in Afganastan and can only hope he made the right choice in Iraq.
Wed May 12, 2004 1:05 pm
Originally posted by ||ASS||Mortimer
LOL...You think Bush is bad? If Kerry becomes president, we may as well get ready for the next 9/11, because all that will do is give them time to regroup
Like it or not, we need to be over there. Whether it's Afghanistan or Iraq,it's all tied to those fanatics that flew planes into our buildings, and killed 3000+innocent civilians.
Lets stick to the issues here... this Iraq war had NOTHING to do w/ 9-11... The whole reason we acted was to get rid of the WMD over there and we still havent found them. Sound like a pretty good reason to get rid of ol' Saddam while we were over there. Our invovlment has only antagonized all those people who hated us to begin with.
With Bush as president or Kerry or your uncle for that matter as president, another terrorist attack will happen again. Somewhere, somehow, some American will die by the hand of some Islamic extremist. If you don't believe that then you are as dillusional as those guys that chopped off that civillians head.
With one hand Bush will wage war risking yours, mine and every other American's life to fulfil his bloodlust... and the other he'll start taking away all the rights we've had for the last 200 years... all in the name of our "freedom"
Now, if Bush finds a real Nuclear, Chemical, and/or Biological program over there that isnt 15 years old, IE: a current program, then i will go ahead and post an statement saying You are right and I was wrong.
I love the freedom of speech... hope it doesn't get monitored or taken' away.
Sludge
Wed May 12, 2004 1:08 pm
I declare KingofBeers as the smartest person atm 
Wed May 12, 2004 1:08 pm
Was it not Al Qaeda that flew the planes?
Did we not find evidence that Hussein was dealing with Al Qaeda before 9/11?
Are we not dealing with Al Qaeda on a daily basis over there?
Sure, it started out being about WMD, but the regime got rid of those while we were in the "get rid of them or else" mode.
That is how Iraq is tied to 9/11 my friend.
You think it's about oil, and I think it's about a bunch of heartless barbarians.
Did we not find evidence that Hussein was dealing with Al Qaeda before 9/11?
Are we not dealing with Al Qaeda on a daily basis over there?
Sure, it started out being about WMD, but the regime got rid of those while we were in the "get rid of them or else" mode.
That is how Iraq is tied to 9/11 my friend.
You think it's about oil, and I think it's about a bunch of heartless barbarians.
Wed May 12, 2004 1:13 pm
Quoting myself:
Quoted by Tommy Boy:
Yes I do believe it.
I wonder how many people realize this POW thing happened in JANUARY! Okay, so now the photos are finally getting leaked. I'm not saying the behavior of our soldiers was acceptable... but this is war. Should our soldiers be held responsible for their misconduct. Absolutely!
But... I still don't think humiliation can compare with torture or beheading. (Did you look at the pictures?) I did and the ones I saw were not nearly as bad as I thought they would be. I asked myself ,"Why are people making a big deal about this??" Bad.. yes, it certainly portrays America in a bad light. Do I think this is common. NO.
But what do I know?
BUT no one was actually KILLED or TORTURED or MUTILATED!!! Publically humiliated... yes, but not much more than that.
Quoted by Tommy Boy:
Do you really believe this? I don't for one second...we have only seen what we were allowed to see. I am sure that there was much more disturbing stuff that went on, and frankly, I don't even want to see it.
Yes I do believe it.
I wonder how many people realize this POW thing happened in JANUARY! Okay, so now the photos are finally getting leaked. I'm not saying the behavior of our soldiers was acceptable... but this is war. Should our soldiers be held responsible for their misconduct. Absolutely!
But... I still don't think humiliation can compare with torture or beheading. (Did you look at the pictures?) I did and the ones I saw were not nearly as bad as I thought they would be. I asked myself ,"Why are people making a big deal about this??" Bad.. yes, it certainly portrays America in a bad light. Do I think this is common. NO.
But what do I know?
Wed May 12, 2004 1:20 pm
Originally posted by Tommy Boy
Like I said earlier, I am not saying that anyone is better or worse than the other, I just am very disturbed to learn that we, as humans, are capable of doing these terrible things to each other...maybe I am just naive or have too much faith/hope in the human race.
Inhumane is the word that gets to me. Animals don't kill for fun, only humans so that makes thsi word a joke. We refer to bestial like it is a bad thing but the natural world is infinitely beautiful and the human world is ugly and destuctive, and evil beyond belief. I saw a similar video to this one a few years back with a rusian soldier getting his head cut off, I didn't want to watch it but some sick fuck had called it a funny video and I downloaded it with different expectations. I can trace this as the exact momment I stopped believing in any god. I felt physically sick, emotionally drained and I didn't sleep properly for weeks, but some sicko thought it was funny. F**k religion it's all bulls*** it serves only to hide the fact that we are nothing and that the only good we will ever do that will last is to fertilise that patch of ground where they finally lay us to rest.
Sorry I wanted that off my chest now go on.
Wed May 12, 2004 1:22 pm
Originally posted by ||ASS||Mortimer
LOL...You think Bush is bad? If Kerry becomes president, we may as well get ready for the next 9/11, because all that will do is give them time to regroup
Like it or not, we need to be over there. Whether it's Afghanistan or Iraq,it's all tied to those fanatics that flew planes into our buildings, and killed 3000+innocent civilians.
You still seem to be missing the picture when you say Iraq was tied to Al Quaida. Whether it is true or not, I don't know, nor do you, but the fact is there is no proof of it, nobody has any proof and Bush was telling you a lie when he said Iraq was tied to Al Quaida.
On another note I'm disgusted about the whole situation in Iraq. One lesson I learned from it is that this is not the solution for fighting terrorism.
Wed May 12, 2004 1:27 pm
These same human debri that murdered Nick Berg are the same ones "tortured" in the prisons.
They are terrorists, less than human in my view, and would have no hesitation repeating their actions to everyone on this forum, your mothers, fathers, children, brothers and sisters. Nick Berg is not the first, remember Daniel Pearl?
The so-called torture of those terrorist prisoners is a joke. Sorry, but this is a war and forcing an animal as they are to parade around in women's underwear and other things done is less than what's considered freedom of speech in porn magazines in this country, routinely giggled at, some of it paid by tax payers (NEA) as art. The whole thing is way out of perspective. Were things done that crossed the line? Yes. Is it worthy of all the political haymaking? NO!
Some of you folks just don't get it. There really are evil people in this world who want to kill you, do you understand that? There's no negotiating with them. Trying to understand them is futile. They believe it is their destiny to kill you. If they had (some say they do) nuclear devices they will use them. They will use chemical/bio weapons if they can. It's already been demonstrated there is no limit to what they will do. They have no natural human affection. They strap explosives on their children and send them to their deaths and celebrate it.
There will be another 9-11, maybe far worse than before. How many will it take?
Spain, Canada, France....go right down the list. You may think your countries are immune to terrorists, but there will come a day should the U.S./GB soften up and surrender, you will be next. There is no discrimination. Winston Churchill knew very well.
As for "war for oil", what would be wrong with that? Our whole existence relies on oil. If a country threatens our national security by stopping the free flow of oil at market prices, it is the obligation of the government to do something about it. It would be interesting to see what all these people who cry "no war for oil" would do if there wasn't any oil. We don't live in the Jetson age, and until that time, oil is the cheapest easily obtained resource we have.
They are terrorists, less than human in my view, and would have no hesitation repeating their actions to everyone on this forum, your mothers, fathers, children, brothers and sisters. Nick Berg is not the first, remember Daniel Pearl?
The so-called torture of those terrorist prisoners is a joke. Sorry, but this is a war and forcing an animal as they are to parade around in women's underwear and other things done is less than what's considered freedom of speech in porn magazines in this country, routinely giggled at, some of it paid by tax payers (NEA) as art. The whole thing is way out of perspective. Were things done that crossed the line? Yes. Is it worthy of all the political haymaking? NO!
Some of you folks just don't get it. There really are evil people in this world who want to kill you, do you understand that? There's no negotiating with them. Trying to understand them is futile. They believe it is their destiny to kill you. If they had (some say they do) nuclear devices they will use them. They will use chemical/bio weapons if they can. It's already been demonstrated there is no limit to what they will do. They have no natural human affection. They strap explosives on their children and send them to their deaths and celebrate it.
There will be another 9-11, maybe far worse than before. How many will it take?
Spain, Canada, France....go right down the list. You may think your countries are immune to terrorists, but there will come a day should the U.S./GB soften up and surrender, you will be next. There is no discrimination. Winston Churchill knew very well.
As for "war for oil", what would be wrong with that? Our whole existence relies on oil. If a country threatens our national security by stopping the free flow of oil at market prices, it is the obligation of the government to do something about it. It would be interesting to see what all these people who cry "no war for oil" would do if there wasn't any oil. We don't live in the Jetson age, and until that time, oil is the cheapest easily obtained resource we have.
Wed May 12, 2004 1:27 pm
Originally posted by ||ASS||Mortimer
Was it not Al Qaeda that flew the planes?
Did we not find evidence that Hussein was dealing with Al Qaeda before 9/11?
Are we not dealing with Al Qaeda on a daily basis over there?
Sure, it started out being about WMD, but the regime got rid of those while we were in the "get rid of them or else" mode.
That is how Iraq is tied to 9/11 my friend.
You think it's about oil, and I think it's about a bunch of heartless barbarians.
What evidence do you speak of? I can't find anything on google.
Wed May 12, 2004 1:30 pm
Originally posted by Sidekick Floppy
You still seem to be missing the picture when you say Iraq was tied to Al Quaida. Whether it is true or not, I don't know, nor do you, but the fact is there is no proof of it, nobody has any proof and Bush was telling you a lie when he said Iraq was tied to Al Quaida.
On another note I'm disgusted about the whole situation in Iraq. One lesson I learned from it is that this is not the solution for fighting terrorism.
Who killed Nick Berg??? In what country??
Wed May 12, 2004 1:32 pm
I did not personally speak with George, so he didn't tell "ME" anything. They found records of meetings between Al Qaeda, and Hussein.
Come on man, do you honestly think that the billions of dollars that Hussein had at his disposal, would not have made it into the hands of AL Qaeda?
Hussein hated the US as much as Bin Laden!
That's why we had to take him out. Whether we knew it at the time is irrelevant. THIS IS NOW...THIS IS REALITY!!
This is just my opinion, and you have yours.
Come on man, do you honestly think that the billions of dollars that Hussein had at his disposal, would not have made it into the hands of AL Qaeda?
Hussein hated the US as much as Bin Laden!
That's why we had to take him out. Whether we knew it at the time is irrelevant. THIS IS NOW...THIS IS REALITY!!
This is just my opinion, and you have yours.
Wed May 12, 2004 1:33 pm
Originally posted by RCglider
:rotflmao: Who killed Nick Berg??? In what country??
I meant before Iraq was invaded/liberated. There is no proof Iraq had ties with Al Quaida when Saddam was president. So there is no proof of a link that ties 9/11 to Iraq. Also I think a smiley does not really belong in this thread.
Wed May 12, 2004 1:38 pm
Originally posted by MajorFatty
What evidence do you speak of? I can't find anything on google.
There is more evidence to support an Al Qaeda link, then there is to support a friggin "Blood for oil" link.
Google a little more my friend.
Wed May 12, 2004 1:41 pm
I watched the video and it was sick !! No one should
have to die like that !!
have to die like that !!