Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:30 am
holy crap...I don't even know what to say about that.
I am literally speechless. This is some world that we live in...
I am literally speechless. This is some world that we live in...
Wed Jun 09, 2004 11:03 am
Originally posted by -HaVoC-
The hard part is that every situation is different. So to apply a consistent law across the boards is not easy and this has been debated for many centuries.
I guy comes home and finds his neighbor and wife in bed. An assault ensues and one is dead on the floor from a head wound occurred in the fight.
A second guy walks into a liquor store and shoots the clerk point blank.
Should those cases be treated the same? Some will state that they should and others will disagree.
What causes a mother to roll her car and three children into the water? Obviously they are very disturbed and these are some very serious situations without easy solutions. It's just very hard for most of us to hear these stories and attempt to understand why it happened.
If only life was black and white. Can she be rehabilitated? I don't know enough about the human psyche to say. I can only offer the family my deepest sympathy's and let the law handle the accused.
very well said
Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:46 pm
yeah, but the bottom line is that at 11 years old, you should not be doing this to a classmate. I can see doing this to an abusive parent, relative after years of unspeakable abuse, but this just seems so wrong on so many fronts.
Like I said, it sometimes depresses me when I think what kind of world my children will not only grow up in, but what world they will live in and enentually shape into their own.
it is truly shocking to a humble Canadian guy like me who is obviously very insulated from this kind of thing, or am I?
Like I said, it sometimes depresses me when I think what kind of world my children will not only grow up in, but what world they will live in and enentually shape into their own.
it is truly shocking to a humble Canadian guy like me who is obviously very insulated from this kind of thing, or am I?
Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:01 pm
No different than a Columbine or whatever school goes postal next. Kids are weird. No easy answers for what she did. I'm sure there may be more to it. But as a society we would never let a 12 year old get fried. Maybe let her sit for six years then fry her?
Kids should be home schooled via the internet now anyways. No need to worry about transportation or packing a lunch. No more worries about having the best shoes or newest gadgets. No need for a 15 year old with a kid to quit on her education. She can do her work from home and still take care of her kid.
Kids should be home schooled via the internet now anyways. No need to worry about transportation or packing a lunch. No more worries about having the best shoes or newest gadgets. No need for a 15 year old with a kid to quit on her education. She can do her work from home and still take care of her kid.
Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:32 pm
Originally posted by Irish
Kids should be home schooled via the internet now anyways. No need to worry about transportation or packing a lunch. No more worries about having the best shoes or newest gadgets. No need for a 15 year old with a kid to quit on her education. She can do her work from home and still take care of her kid.
But then you completely miss out on getting picked on...
Little story about this kid who plays roller hockey where my buddy refs. Goalies are hard to come by. This home school kid somehow is invited to play, cuz he played street hockey and any body in front of the net is better than none. This kid has no communication skills. He is essentially Milton from Office Space. Walks like him, talks like him and in many regards even LOOKS like him (but thats besides the point
)
At any rate, he is a terrible goalie. Just hasn't played long enough for the skill level of the indoor group. The kids begin to talk shit to him like "YOU F*CKING SUCK!" and such. Milton then goes on to throw temper tantrums that you wouldn't expect out of a 15 year old kid. After and before the games, he tries to talk to my buddy the ref, asking the same questions week after week, "can i put my water bottle on top of the net, what if i spill water on the floor, what if i get slashed...." The list goes on and on. He just doesn't have the communcation skills to talk to anybody. This is probably extreme but if two people were applying for a job that deals with the public, one was home schooled and the other went to a public school, i'd take a public school student over the home school kid.
Home school might be good for a kid's education, but its not necesaraly the best sollution. Kids need to be around other kids at younger ages... to learn to play, have fun, and grow an identity. Like in The Matrix the humans rejected the first "perfect" world because the human mind cannot accept only good things. A little adversity is necessary. Kids learn or should learn how to deal with these situations at a young age... say 3 or 4. Like sitting out if one child hits another child. Learning to give praise to another child too is also important. Children cannot learn things like that if they are home schooled.
Now i'm not saying that home schooling is wrong but its not the best answer. Its our human nature to compete, to be the best. Kids learn a lot about self-improvement at an early age without really knowing it. Kids hate being the last picked, or if you're a boy, picked AFTER a girl during kickball or whatever. responses to that situation are typically practice to be better, or wilt away and feel depressed. Darwin of course would say that this is the "survival of the fittest"
Maybe the girl who killed the other girl was completely sane until being picked on by this other girl... her response was just over the top. Its like Ralphie in The Christmas Story when he beats up the neighborhood bully. He's crying by the end because they've been picked on so much and he can't control himself.
Murder is wrong and this girl KNEW what she was doing. She cut both the other girls throat AND wrists. This was plotted, worked out. I dont know about you but if i cut someone's throat i think the wrists are a little unneccesary to go after. She also led the girl to a secluded area so she could commit the act. The act of murder. 1st degree if you live in the states. It was plotted, and then set in action. This doesn't seem like the ralphie situtation to me though.
I'd say send her to a mental hospital and be watched for the rest of her life. Do psycho-analytical tests on her and compare those tests to kids who haven't killed anyone.
I'm sure there are a thousand loopholes in everything i said. But hey, what can i say im not a psychologist.
Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:10 pm
King, the type of home schooling you're referring to is just a stereotype (but can be true). Many people in my family have been homeschooled, and yet they are the most polite, more sociable people I have ever met. They seem to have millions of friends because they go out in the world and do things.
I don't know about you, but personally basing someone on whether they are homeschooled or not is wrong. I'd choose the one that has the better personality, skills, and social ability.
I don't know about you, but personally basing someone on whether they are homeschooled or not is wrong. I'd choose the one that has the better personality, skills, and social ability.
Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:33 pm
I would take old school (the movie) over home school anyday.
You're my boy Blue!
You're my boy Blue!
Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:35 pm
I think in japan they eat their lunches in their classroom where a teacher is and they can go outside where a teacher is and there must be some sort of hall moniter but you have to figure not every room can be watched. Who knows she might have taken her to the boiler room where there would definatoly wouldn't have been any teachers or moniters.Originally posted by ShipWreck
well why the F*** are 2 young girls wondering around school without and adult
Wed Jun 09, 2004 4:56 pm
You can't assume that you can keep an eye on kids all the time. They have a way of getting away from you, even if you're standing right next to them. Besides... can you remember growing up that your parents were watching you ALL THE TIME? Mine certainly wasn't, and I turned out fine. It's part of growing up.
As far as home school goes, you have a point. There's another side to this, though. My mom is a teacher, and the biggest problem she's had is getting kids to shut up and get to work. (She teaches 1st through 3rd graders.) She says it has gotten worse over time. Her theory is that kids are not getting enough socialization out of school---they just go home and plop in front of the TV and don't play outside with other kids, so all their social energy comes out in the classroom.
So no matter where you educate your kids, it's all about achieving the right balance... social time is definitely important, but should not be part of the classroom. However, learning to work with otehr kids is also important. A home schooled kid could be well adjusted if they are involved in plenty of group activities.
The bad side of school these days is it seems to become this child-society microcosm where kids generate their own norms of social behavior, status, and heirarchy, and these things can result in extremes such as Columbine and the thread topic.
As far as home school goes, you have a point. There's another side to this, though. My mom is a teacher, and the biggest problem she's had is getting kids to shut up and get to work. (She teaches 1st through 3rd graders.) She says it has gotten worse over time. Her theory is that kids are not getting enough socialization out of school---they just go home and plop in front of the TV and don't play outside with other kids, so all their social energy comes out in the classroom.
So no matter where you educate your kids, it's all about achieving the right balance... social time is definitely important, but should not be part of the classroom. However, learning to work with otehr kids is also important. A home schooled kid could be well adjusted if they are involved in plenty of group activities.
The bad side of school these days is it seems to become this child-society microcosm where kids generate their own norms of social behavior, status, and heirarchy, and these things can result in extremes such as Columbine and the thread topic.
Thu Jun 10, 2004 8:35 pm
I am not going to pretend I know all about homeschooling or not to homeschool, etc. But I agree with what most of King said about kids needing to be in a social, competetive environment, and I agree with what Pudrik and Evan said regarding that there can be a balance between homeschooling alone and then taking the time to go out and socialize with peers, etc.
Here is a short story one of my co-workers told me this week that has someting to do with Pudriks thoughts in his 2nd paragraph regarding kids not socializing out of school:
I was having a discussion with my co worker Bill and we were talking about the seat belt laws, etc, and then it turned to the bicycle helmet laws out there. I think kids under 12-13 have to wear helmets. Anyway, without going too far off the subject, he was taking his young daughter for a bike ride thorugh thier new neighborhood (wearing thier helmets
) and was noticing that there were no kids at play. None at all! And this was just before dusk so it was still light and the street lights have not come on yet. (when i was a kid, we had to go in when they came on). They rode around all the blocks and there was not a kid to be seen. None playing stick ball, none playing kick ball, baseball, street hockey, tackle football between houses or just running around being generally active. NONE!
We came to the conclusion that it seems these days, like Pudrik said, kids get home, plop down and either watch TV or are on the internet, or playing video games. I think part of this reason is that parents don't want thier kids outside out of fear of "sickos" in the world that might kidnap them or bring some kind of harm to them.
Granted, with technology, there are other outlets and choices for kids that we didn't have growing up but I cannot help but feel that this seclusion helps in some way to impede social skills needed to confront the pressures of the world today. And some people cannot handle this.
IMO
Here is a short story one of my co-workers told me this week that has someting to do with Pudriks thoughts in his 2nd paragraph regarding kids not socializing out of school:
I was having a discussion with my co worker Bill and we were talking about the seat belt laws, etc, and then it turned to the bicycle helmet laws out there. I think kids under 12-13 have to wear helmets. Anyway, without going too far off the subject, he was taking his young daughter for a bike ride thorugh thier new neighborhood (wearing thier helmets
) and was noticing that there were no kids at play. None at all! And this was just before dusk so it was still light and the street lights have not come on yet. (when i was a kid, we had to go in when they came on). They rode around all the blocks and there was not a kid to be seen. None playing stick ball, none playing kick ball, baseball, street hockey, tackle football between houses or just running around being generally active. NONE!
We came to the conclusion that it seems these days, like Pudrik said, kids get home, plop down and either watch TV or are on the internet, or playing video games. I think part of this reason is that parents don't want thier kids outside out of fear of "sickos" in the world that might kidnap them or bring some kind of harm to them.
Granted, with technology, there are other outlets and choices for kids that we didn't have growing up but I cannot help but feel that this seclusion helps in some way to impede social skills needed to confront the pressures of the world today. And some people cannot handle this.
IMO
Thu Jun 10, 2004 8:45 pm
Originally posted by CodeRed68
I am not going to pretend I know all about homeschooling or not to homeschool, etc. But I agree with what most of King said about kids needing to be in a social, competetive environment, and I agree with what Pudrik and Evan said regarding that there can be a balance between homeschooling alone and then taking the time to go out and socialize with peers, etc.
Here is a short story one of my co-workers told me this week that has someting to do with Pudriks thoughts in his 2nd paragraph regarding kids not socializing out of school:
I was having a discussion with my co worker Bill and we were talking about the seat belt laws, etc, and then it turned to the bicycle helmet laws out there. I think kids under 12-13 have to wear helmets. Anyway, without going too far off the subject, he was taking his young daughter for a bike ride thorugh thier new neighborhood (wearing thier helmets
We came to the conclusion that it seems these days, like Pudrik said, kids get home, plop down and either watch TV or are on the internet, or playing video games. I think part of this reason is that parents don't want thier kids outside out of fear of "sickos" in the world that might kidnap them or bring some kind of harm to them.
Granted, with technology, there are other outlets and choices for kids that we didn't have growing up but I cannot help but feel that this seclusion helps in some way to impede social skills needed to confront the pressures of the world today. And some people cannot handle this.
IMO
Around where I live, if you don't see kids playing outside something is seriously wrong or no one is home.