Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:30 pm
Originally posted by Jeffro
So you enjoy the fact that Moore twists the truth, and only shows one side of the situation?
For example:
In bowling for columbine, he makes every gun owner look like a complete hoosier or psycho, when in reality, that is totally wrong.
I honestly hope that smug fatass has a heart attack.
Ironic. Only shows one side of the situation? Kind of like how you only took one sentence out of my entire post and made my post into something it was not. Pot calling kettle black? I admit he is very liberal, and a lot of what he shows is selective(like I pointed out soldier's views on the war), but a lot is not liberal, and damn important points and questions that this President and his administration need to answer, IMO. We spend $80 million in tax payers money to prove Clinton got a blow job, but this President illegally using funds for the war in afganistan to fund a preliminary war in iraq is ok?
I actually found Bowling to be a great movie, and not sided left or right. What i find absolutely funny is the fact that it has been 'guns do not kill people, people kill people.' now that someone took the first step into why people(well, American's) kill people that too is wrong!
Which is it? Guns or people killing people? It does not work both ways.
Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:33 pm
Be this as it may, I just hope people realize that a lot of his movie is exaggerated. If they don't, oh well. We all die anyway.
However, it will be interesting to see how Kerry (if elected) handles this situation (war/terrorism/etc). I personally would enjoy seeing him fail, but alas that is my opinion.
However, it will be interesting to see how Kerry (if elected) handles this situation (war/terrorism/etc). I personally would enjoy seeing him fail, but alas that is my opinion.
Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:43 pm
Originally posted by JimmyTango
It is also ironic that the current administration is censoring many of us, especially in the media. Howard Stern, a Republican, has dropped his support of Bush because of it.
Example, please? And, you also say "us" - is the administration censoring you somehow?
Originally posted by JimmyTango
That being said, there is a lot about this movie where the facts can not be disputed.
Examples, please? (preferably, some that aren't hearsay, misrepresentation, stretches of imagination, rumor, or complete fabrications)
Originally posted by JimmyTango
I am still waiting for our great leader to explain why 24 members of bin Ladin's family were allowed to fly out of this country while all other flights were grounded(included Bush Sr's) on 9-13.
Why don't you ask Richard Clarke - the man Moore promotes as the only one in the Bush administration with ethics - when he, and he alone, before the 9/11 Commission and under oath claimed sole responsibility for authorizing that flight.
Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:45 pm
Originally posted by JimmyTango
Why is it when someone uses their right to voice their opinion against politicians that people always come up with 'go to another country.'
BTW, those in office never gave us the freedom to poke fun of them, our ancestors did. It is also ironic that the current administration is censoring many of us, especially in the media. Howard Stern, a Republican, has dropped his support of Bush because of it.
I saw this movie, and like Moore's other work I liked it a lot. In this particular movie he has taken a giant leap as a film maker.
Like his other work, it is heavily sided to his views(he will show soldiers against the war but not those for it). That being said, there is a lot about this movie where the facts can not be disputed.
I am still waiting for our great leader to explain why 24 members of bin Ladin's family were allowed to fly out of this country while all other flights were grounded(included Bush Sr's) on 9-13. Not only that, but over 100 Saudis not related to Bin Ladin were also given a free pass out of here. I find it dispicable that this administration allowed them to leave without so much as a simple interview to see if they possibly knew Osama's location. I know I know I know, Clarke did it, not Bush, he even admits it. Then there lies a bigger flaw; how did Bush not have control over this? How is it the President of the United States is not in control of allowing grounded planes to take off with Bin Ladin family members 2 days after 9-11?
Bush made a deal with Bin Laden on a SR-71 flight to Afghanistan in October 2000, just before the elections.
I'm surprised you didn't know that.
Now, start listing the factual elements of the propaganda film (it's not a documentary), since all propaganda has an element of truth.
How are you being censored? Be specific.
Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:45 pm
Originally posted by JimmyTango
Ironic. Only shows one side of the situation? Kind of like how you only took one sentence out of my entire post and made my post into something it was not. Pot calling kettle black? I admit he is very liberal, and a lot of what he shows is selective(like I pointed out soldier's views on the war), but a lot is not liberal, and damn important points and questions that this President and his administration need to answer, IMO. We spend $80 million in tax payers money to prove Clinton got a blow job, but this President illegally using funds for the war in afganistan to fund a preliminary war in iraq is ok?
I actually found Bowling to be a great movie, and not sided left or right. What i find absolutely funny is the fact that it has been 'guns do not kill people, people kill people.' now that someone took the first step into why people(well, American's) kill people that too is wrong!
Which is it? Guns or people killing people? It does not work both ways.
Well...if the gun is magical...
I am a gun owner, however, I do not use it for home defense. Infact, I totally disagree on the use of guns for home defense. Instead, I go to the shooting range, or participate in a historical reenactment.
That investigation of Clinton was just a cover up on how the economy was going in the shitters.
Mon Jun 28, 2004 4:03 pm
Originally posted by JimmyTango
We spend $80 million in tax payers money to prove Clinton got a blow job,
Did that actually happen? I didn't pay attention to the Clinton scandal because I thought it was dumb, people practice infedelity all the time and the media blew it out of proportion, Clinton is as human as you and I so I saw no need to be educated about that ..
Mon Jun 28, 2004 4:08 pm
Originally posted by Folic_Acid
Example, please? And, you also say "us" - is the administration censoring you somehow?
Turn on Stern and listen. 'Us' as in Americans, we are a whole.
Originally posted by Folic_Acid
Examples, please? (preferably, some that aren't hearsay, misrepresentation, stretches of imagination, rumor, or complete fabrications)
Pull out your wallet and pay to see the movie. If you do not, then for all you know is that the entire movie is 100% correct. The last thing I am going to do is pick over points in the movie when you have not even seen it, yet are more than happy to rip it. I have seen people rip a part the movie and use just as 'fictitous' facts as counter arguements. To take a write up of it as fact is just as bad as someone taking the actual movie for fact.
Originally posted by Folic_Acid
Why don't you ask Richard Clarke - the man Moore promotes as the only one in the Bush administration with ethics - when he, and he alone, before the 9/11 Commission and under oath claimed sole responsibility for authorizing that flight.
Are you sure you are not Moore yourself? I mean, didn't I mention Clarke? Even that he took responsibility? I mean, you didn't quote it, but are more than happy to point your little finger at someone else for doing the same thing.
If the President did not have the power to prevent it or even know about it, there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with that White House.
Our Ivy League President:
"I glance at the headlines just to kind of get a flavor for what's moving. I rarely read the stories, and get briefed by people who are probably read the news themselves."—Washington, D.C., Sept. 21, 2003
Mon Jun 28, 2004 4:19 pm
Originally posted by PL_M@ster
No need to be offenced cuz he exagerate the thruth, just look at the true part of what he shows and dont mind the others.
I understand what you are saying, unfortunatly, society as a whole isn't smart enough to do that.
Mon Jun 28, 2004 4:22 pm
MM is one of these fruitloops that when they have talent on one hand they will take that talent and misuse it. Instead of making better and better films he is gonna use the films to push an agenda...rather weak IMO. He has done it b4 at the oscars...during an acceptance speach he starts trying to push his political views on the viewers...also very very lame. He has talent...but what history and time will tell is that he wasted his time pushing this that and the other with his movies and political statements...and his films wont be remembered past the time that the issue is at hand...or something like that.
Mon Jun 28, 2004 4:26 pm
Originally posted by JimmyTango
Turn on Stern and listen. 'Us' as in Americans, we are a whole.
You're referring to the fine by the Federal Communications Commission of Clear Channel Communications for the broadcast of obscene and indecent speech, I take it? If it's obscene, then it's not protected by the first amendment at all. If it's profane or indecent, it's not censored, but rather is restricted to between 10pm and 6am. Clear Channel even had agreed that they'd violated the rules, and agreed to a $1.75 million fine. That Howard Stern is off the air is not the government's fault. It's Clear Channel's, because they were the ones that dropped him.
Originally posted by JimmyTango
Pull out your wallet and pay to see the movie.
Perhaps I shall. Of course, if reading about something rather than experiencing the "something" for yourself doesn't entitle you to talk about it at all, then I'd better stop talking about World War II, and you'd better stop talking about politics and government.
Originally posted by JimmyTango
Are you sure you are not Moore yourself? I mean, didn't I mention Clarke? Even that he took responsibility?
I did notice that. I'm still wondering why you pin the blame on Bush, when it was Clarke that made the decision. Surely you realize that the senior executives in government can make decisions without having to run every single one of them by the President personally? But, then again, if you haven't actually experienced government operations personally, then you don't have the standing to talk about it.
Mon Jun 28, 2004 4:33 pm
Yeah, comparing WWII and politics/government to discussing a movie you have not even seen yet you claim to be just about all(if not all) made up facts.
We are not talking about a little thing that the President didn't really need to sign off on. We are talking about a mass murderer and how 24 of his family members are allowed out of this country without one question on if they may know where he is. This is the kind of decision that only one man should have the power to decide on: The President.
How is a decision that big allowed to be decided on by anyone but the President?
We are not talking about a little thing that the President didn't really need to sign off on. We are talking about a mass murderer and how 24 of his family members are allowed out of this country without one question on if they may know where he is. This is the kind of decision that only one man should have the power to decide on: The President.
How is a decision that big allowed to be decided on by anyone but the President?
Mon Jun 28, 2004 4:54 pm
Bush or any effective leader does not micro manage every detail of his companies' opperation. two days after September eleventh the leader of our nation was making more decisions than anyone can even imagine. his main concern was not distant family of a public enemy knowing secret connections to the atrocity. Bush and Clarke were avoiding the meltdown that would occur if family memebers were harmed in some way while in our country.
I feel sorry for the soldiers who were stupid enough to be taped for this movie speaking against their comander and chief. once they signed their name on the dotted line they forfieted their right to free speech. They have now entered a field where they and everything they are taught after basic training is or can be classified. they should have kept their mouths shut.
I feel sorry for the soldiers who were stupid enough to be taped for this movie speaking against their comander and chief. once they signed their name on the dotted line they forfieted their right to free speech. They have now entered a field where they and everything they are taught after basic training is or can be classified. they should have kept their mouths shut.
Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:30 pm
That strikes me as odd that you hate Michael Moore, Jeffro. Since you are going to be going to a Liberal college and study Music Composition. I think a would be artist such as yourself would at least acknowledge the fact that Moore has attempted to swing the balance of power into the hands of someone he believes that would be better for our country.
I'd say at least go see the movie if you are going to really talk about the message of the film. For all we know everyone who rips on it gets all their information from Repbulican-News Daily and hasn't yet seen the movie.
I hope you aren't in for a extreme rude awakening when you get to Webster, but it seems like you will be.
I'd say at least go see the movie if you are going to really talk about the message of the film. For all we know everyone who rips on it gets all their information from Repbulican-News Daily and hasn't yet seen the movie.
I hope you aren't in for a extreme rude awakening when you get to Webster, but it seems like you will be.
Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:42 pm
Hitler asked a lot of hard questions that deserved an answer also. I don't see anyone recommending Mein Kampf for its social commentary. Now don't go off half cocked saying I am implying some kind of comparison between Hitler and Moore.
When someone applies the "truth" selectively how can you trust them at all? The very fact that he uses misinformation casts doubt upon the factual material he uses and therefore renders all of it suspect.
I mean seriously here Jimmy. Do you doubt that there is enough messed up shit in this administration (like all administrations both Dem and Rep) that you need to make stuff up?
If I understand what you are saying we should see his work to get to the kernels of truth that are in it.
Well if you look at a lump of shit the next day you can find kernels there also. Its still looks and smells like shit though.
When someone applies the "truth" selectively how can you trust them at all? The very fact that he uses misinformation casts doubt upon the factual material he uses and therefore renders all of it suspect.
I mean seriously here Jimmy. Do you doubt that there is enough messed up shit in this administration (like all administrations both Dem and Rep) that you need to make stuff up?
If I understand what you are saying we should see his work to get to the kernels of truth that are in it.
Well if you look at a lump of shit the next day you can find kernels there also. Its still looks and smells like shit though.
Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:43 pm
Originally posted by PL_M@ster
Yep, it takes a smarter spirit to light you up on the lies of your country
Well actually no, Bush just sucks. No need to be Canadian or Russian or Autralian to say that. And no need to be smart...
I love people that just jump on band wagons. If you're so smart and witty go find me the reasons in detail why you think Bush svcks (not that I give a fk one way or the other). At least spend some time on something. Help us understand your deep seated misunderstanding of World politics and your inability to form a coherent thought beyond "Bush svcks".
While your at it go find some examples of other foreign leaders and their wonderful achievements. Like specific details concerning the Oil for food campaign scandal and every foreign dignitary that profited illegally off that (you won't find that in Moore's movie). After that go find me some information on Yassar Arafat and the fking blunders that ahole has contributed to the world. Those bunch of losers should keep ya busy for awhile.
How bout this, why don't ya shut ya pie hole, cause your uneducated banter is stinking up the place. OOOOOOOOh your a bush basher. Your a friggin band wagon rider that looks into nothing and then runs his mouth. I bet ya root for the Yankees and loved the Steelers in the seventy's too.
Go back to your Western Civ class. It's nap time.