9/11 attacks on pentagon????

by **Buliwyf** » Tue May 16, 2006 9:04 pm

nonoononono

by **Padre** » Tue May 16, 2006 9:19 pm

Originally posted by cavalierlwt
It's kind of funny that a long time ago, they'd hit oil while drilling for (water) wells in PA, and they would consider it a disaster. Looking for water and wound up with this foul black gunk that ruins the land!! All that changed once whale oil started to run out, and someone figured out how to make kerosene out of oil--which left behind the next useless byproduct--gasoline!
Makes you wonder what 'useless' substance is the next big breakthrough.

Used deep fry oil - you know, the stuff they cook french fries and chicken nuggets in. There was a Mythbusters episode that proved you could run a diesel car on it with no modifications.

It got worse milage (about 10% less MPG) but it worked.

Yeah Yeah I'm off topic. That conspiracy video is interesting - though I expected a pic from The Exorcist to pop up and scream at me at some point... I just don't trust Flash anymore.

I agree with the statement that the planes that hit the WTC seemed to disappear as well.

by Conscious* » Tue May 16, 2006 9:46 pm

If you want the biggest load of bullshit made about 9/11 search google video for "Loose Change 2" it should be a 90 minute video of complete BS about how the US government purposely blew up teh WTC and the pentagon, and they try to use evidence. It's rather amusing.

by **CreepingCharlie** » Tue May 16, 2006 10:11 pm

Ya I just saw the video that was released. Too bad I already saw it and it doesn't really even show all that much. Just a nose of something and then boom, giant fireball and thats it. Now I do remember seeing a video of the plane hitting the pentagon from a different angle. It was like the day of 9/11. I think it shows the plane coming in and smashing into the pentagon. You see the side(the one that got hit) and then see the plane coming in(like an overhead pass) and boom.

Oh and the reason why they are showing it is b/c of a court order to show it. I guess someone sued the gov b/c of its public knowledge or whatever and they won so now they have to release it.

by **munky73770** » Tue May 16, 2006 11:59 pm

Yeah, freedom of information act is the reason the gov released it.

by **munky73770** » Wed May 17, 2006 12:12 am

Originally posted by Conscious*
The bigger picture isn't oil. Allah is right in his post again, America is wasteful of everything it does. Even in stupid things as food, we waste a ton. The bigger picture I referred to was the global threat of Iraq and Iran. I understand no WMDs were actually found in Iraq, but still Saddam needed to be overthrown whether he was building WMDs or not. Now, Iran scares me 5x as much as Iraq ever did. Whenever the leader of a country calls death to another, and starts a nuclear program...the world faces a problem. Ahmadinjad (spelling) calls death to Isreal and the destruction of Jews, and calls the Holocaust a political joke by the West, and at the same time claims his nuclear programs are peaceful. I'm more scared of the fact that Isreal is going to attack Iran then I am of Iran striking first, because that is almost certian not to happen. If Isreal bombs Iran the Middle East will be a much bigger problem then even is now. If diplomaticsanctions do not halter Iran's nuclear ambitions whether they actually are peaceful or not, which its fairly obvious in my mind it isn't, Iran will be a much bigger problem then Iraq is. The support for radical islam will be at an all time high if anyone attacks Iran and the West will have a major problem in defeating what will emerge out of the Middle East, and stopping attacks on its own soil. (Whether it be in the UK, France, Germany, US or Canada)

Israel bombed the Iraqi nuclear plant (Osirak) in 1981 and the Middle East didnt do sh*t. The UN wanted to sanction Israel, but it never happened.

The Air Force is scared shitless of Israel attacking Iran because they will need to fly over our airspace in Iraq. But we all know that we will NOT shoot down their fighters, just warn them.

We do not need to invade Iran. Just take out the reactors, and we will be good to go. Sure, Iran might unleash their hell of suicide bombers, but we dont know that for a fact.

I say Iran has 5-7 years left to go before they start enriching plutonium on a large scale to use for nuclear weapons.

Then it will be time for either us or Israel to go in kick their ass.

by **munky73770** » Wed May 17, 2006 12:32 am

Originally posted by TiNM@N
alofwar has a point, i just happening to fli[p through the channels and saw stills of the Pentagon clean up. But it was actually a persons views on why it WASN'T a plane. anyways before you stop reading it was interesting to hear a ....few odd facts. The side of the building that was hit was the side that was going through reconstruction (hence a viable target with minimal loss) another they pointed out was that most people close to the actually accident DIDN'T hear a Jet passing, most times you go past airport you can hear a jet talking off and landing and they are much farther than when one comes crashing down. Another thing they said was that it's odd how they flew so close to the deck to avoid the AA system which i beleive to be in the middle of the Pentagon. They wanted you to beleive that it was a global hawk that was crash/slammed into the building.

Thats what their point was, mine on the other hand always was a bit suspicious of the LACK of Aircraft parts in the wreckage. 60+ passangers, luggage, FUEL (shouldn't there of been a HUGH fire?), aluminium, all disapears where were the 4 turbine engines or the wings? I have yet to see those photos, yea i might sound gulable for not beleive the all honest truthfulness of my government, but it makes me wonder at times. --- if you have a site that shows all those things i'm not seeing please link it.

My Father's friend who is a special agent in the FBI was at the Pentagon when that plane hit. He told me it was most definitely a plane, because he heard it rumble in. Dave lost a few friends in that attack, he is pretty bitter on it.

SAM system? I dont think the Pentagon had anything of that at the time of the 9/11 attacks. I know afterwards stuff like that started to get implemented on high threat buildings. And if it did, you have to think about the radar system. What if it wasnt on? I'm assuming they would either have the HAWK system or MANDPADS (Stingers).
'Targets for non-MANPAD SAMs will usually be acquired by air-search radar, then tracked before/while a SAM is "locked-on" and then fired. Potential targets, if they are military aircraft will be identified as friend of foe by identification fiend or foe (IFF) systems before "lock-on".'

Also, you have to think that if they did lock the target with a SAM you have to think about if they decided to engage the consequences... what if it got hit and then the debris fell into a large building and took more lives?

There are too many what if scenarios.

But I certainly believe it was a civilian airliner that hit that building.

And about luggage and so on, think about it for a second.... this plane was going probably 400+ mph and when the fuselage hit the building of course nothing is going to get scattered around on the outside. It punched a whole into the building like a nail going through a board. All the debris is going to be INSIDE. And I'm guessing the wings snapped backwords and got sucked into the building.

Currently I work at the South East Air Defense Sector (SEADS) and we monitor ALL airspace within the USA. I cant tell you anything else, but if there was another hijacking to go on, you can believe me that those motherf'ers wont be ramming any more jets into buildings.

\\end rant on this thread. I work mid shift here and I am EXTREMELY bored at this moment.

by **]DP[Artie** » Wed May 17, 2006 1:00 am

Originally posted by Alofwar
Thank you King, i posted this in order to further my knowledge of this terrible tradgerdy and respect for those who died.

My guess is that since there wasnt footage of it and the Government would rather not focus on its military command centre being attacked so it limited infomation.

There was footage of it. From several closed circuit video recorders that run 24/7 on nearby business properties. They were all confiscated by the government shortly after 9/11. The one that was recently released was actually shows on the news in the first days after 9/11 but then never afterwards.

This has been twisted by conspiracy theorists, them saying this somehow proves the government is covering something up.

But the truth is much simpler: One thing you'll notice in every pentagon news briefing where they're showing or talking about bombing missions (and showing cockpit footage of the bombings), they say 'we think such-and-such' but will need to do a full 'bomb damage assessment' to see how successful the strike was. Well the attack on the pentagon was the opposite, we were hit and one would expect the enemy to want to do as complete of a bomb damage assessment as possible, so they suppressed as much film as possible to limit the extent to which Al-quida (and any other enemies) could do a BDA of how successful the strike was, because the more they could learn, the more they could use that info in carrying out similar attacks in the future.

In general I'm against suppression of information or knowledge by the government. But in this case is was/is 100% necessary and justified.

by **Alofwar** » Wed May 17, 2006 1:24 am

And if it did, you have to think about the radar system. What if it wasnt on? I'm assuming they would either have the HAWK system or MANDPADS (Stingers).

Oh yes, so its a big coincidence then that the radar would be switched off when its on most of the time at the exact time of a terrosist attack?

If the pentagon didnt have SAM missiles at the time what about fighers. In Britain even before the 9/11 attacks, we had planes constantly on stand-by to intercept aircraft who enter no fly zones around key military installations, which could scramble and intercept any target before it reached its target. Surely America, a country much better prepared for war than Britain would be able to do the same at least?

by **munky73770** » Wed May 17, 2006 1:24 am

Originally posted by ]DP[Artie

In general I'm against suppression of information or knowledge by the government.

Well buddy, you dont have the need to KNOW about most stuff

by **TiNM@N** » Wed May 17, 2006 3:15 am

Originally posted by munky73770
My Father's friend who is a special agent in the FBI was at the Pentagon when that plane hit. He told me it was most definitely a plane, because he heard it rumble in. Dave lost a few friends in that attack, he is pretty bitter on it.

SAM system? I dont think the Pentagon had anything of that at the time of the 9/11 attacks. I know afterwards stuff like that started to get implemented on high threat buildings. And if it did, you have to think about the radar system. What if it wasnt on? I'm assuming they would either have the HAWK system or MANDPADS (Stingers).
'Targets for non-MANPAD SAMs will usually be acquired by air-search radar, then tracked before/while a SAM is "locked-on" and then fired. Potential targets, if they are military aircraft will be identified as friend of foe by identification fiend or foe (IFF) systems before "lock-on".'

Also, you have to think that if they did lock the target with a SAM you have to think about if they decided to engage the consequences... what if it got hit and then the debris fell into a large building and took more lives?

There are too many what if scenarios.

But I certainly believe it was a civilian airliner that hit that building.

And about luggage and so on, think about it for a second.... this plane was going probably 400+ mph and when the fuselage hit the building of course nothing is going to get scattered around on the outside. It punched a whole into the building like a nail going through a board. All the debris is going to be INSIDE. And I'm guessing the wings snapped backwords and got sucked into the building.

Currently I work at the South East Air Defense Sector (SEADS) and we monitor ALL airspace within the USA. I cant tell you anything else, but if there was another hijacking to go on, you can believe me that those motherf'ers wont be ramming any more jets into buildings.

\\end rant on this thread. I work mid shift here and I am EXTREMELY bored at this moment.

This is the kind of pic im talking about... where are the wings or the damage caused by the wings..... just a big hole...

by **SavageParrot** » Wed May 17, 2006 3:51 am

Originally posted by Conscious*
Savage your not a Tony Blair fan are you.

Decidedly not. Something about being lied to on a daily basis really irks me...

by **munky73770** » Wed May 17, 2006 4:38 am

Originally posted by Alofwar
Oh yes, so its a big coincidence then that the radar would be switched off when its on most of the time at the exact time of a terrosist attack?

If the pentagon didnt have SAM missiles at the time what about fighers. In Britain even before the 9/11 attacks, we had planes constantly on stand-by to intercept aircraft who enter no fly zones around key military installations, which could scramble and intercept any target before it reached its target. Surely America, a country much better prepared for war than Britain would be able to do the same at least?

Even if it was on, one key thing I forgot to mention in my previous post was that the flight transponder was turned off sometime after the hijacking. When this happens, the plane dissappears from FAA radar (which is also shared by the military). Yeah, SAMs have their own radar. But again, we dont know the full story on this. And I doubt we will ever know anyways. One thing about a SAM is that when you turn the radar on it takes time to 'warm up' which could take quite a long time actually. Its not like in the movies when you see the big bad commies flip on a switch and BAM they have a lock. It doesnt work that way. With MANPADS its different, because most of them are heatseaking...but with that fact, you need to wait for the jet to PASS you before firing because obviously the heat is generated towards the rear of the aircraft.

But whatever, I dont want to get too technical and there are many many variations of SAMS/MANPADS and their guidance systems out there.

I am pretty sure there were possibly some fighter jets in the area because there a few bases in the VA region. And once again, we can use the 'What if' scenario.

All in all, it was a sh*tty day for the US.

Before 9/11 there were only a handful of bases that monitored airspace. Now its above 20.

We learned quite a lesson from this and we are more than ready if it ever happens agains.

F*ck terrorism!

:ar15:

by **Rotoman** » Wed May 17, 2006 8:42 am

Tinm@n- don't forget the wings are where the fuel tanks are. At 400 mph a aluminum plane full of fuel impacting the ground isn't going to leave much debris. Most of it is going to disintigrate via the impact or the explosion. Its simple physics.

Look at the impact crater of Flight 93. There's no 'wings' left from it or identifiable wing damage. Just a big crater.

I don't believe the Pentagon had ever employed any AA system prior to 9/11. Hindsight being 20/20 it seems odd but given that its in downtown Washington the idea of having an active AA system around wouldn't have sat well with the general public.

Also, as Munky mentioned very few military bases ran round the clock active air patrol. Most had fighters in an alert 5 status, meaning they could be airbourn within 5 minutes.

by **Alofwar** » Wed May 17, 2006 8:52 am

In that picture of the pentagon with the damage it looks like a very small section actually, looks too small to be done by a massive plane.

Also the plane would not have dissintergrated, you see pictures of other plane crashes where it would have exploded and there is wreckage everywhere, metal doesnt just disintergrate in an explosion, it may be torn apart at its weakest points but then its carryied away by the force of the blast.

9/11 attacks on pentagon????

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