World War 3 imminent

by **PraiseA||ah** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:01 pm

World leader: The United States of America is the most powerful nation at the moment. The most powerful in any terms you wish to apply that term to. Monetarily, militarily, etc. Ever hear of NATO and the UN? They're really small organizations the US is a really small player in. I don't know.. I'm sure you will be able to find a category the US doesn't lead in, like oh.. say, soccer. But that would be a very small list indeed.

Rhetoric followed by action - in particular torture as an excuse to invade:

Iraq ring a bell? The first Gulf War. I don't know if you remember or are old enough too, but claims of torture by Iraq was a prime reason given for going to war with them. Torture also played a role in the reasoning for the second and current war with Iraq.

Torture has also played a supporting role in justifying our involvement in many other conflicts.

by **cavalierlwt** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:26 pm

I'm 37, I remember the first Gulf War Allah. There's no need to get testy, unless you really believe I haven't heard of the UN or NATO. By Leader, I mean leader, as in tell people what to do. We don't control the world, hell we can't control Iraq.

I'm not backing off of this, that somehow talking a big game and not living up to it is somehow worse than not talking a big game and doing even worse things.
The US preaches freedom and democracy, makes ass-pyramids=worse atrocity since the holocaust.
Chechens invade a Russian school and kill a bunch kids=less of an atrocity because Chechens don't preach freedom and Democracy???? Thus Chechens are better people than Americans.
That's the formula I see applied.

I'm not in favor of the occupation of Iraq, but our name was mud long before we set foot in that country.

US along with NATO fights in Yugoslavia to stop ethnic cleansing. Bridges get blown up, and even the Croats say the Americans are assholes for blowing up bridges and road.

US gets involved in Somalia to stop warlords and starvation, Somalia rises up attacks US, US leaves.

Rawanda breaks out in violence, US stays home, UN does nothing, somehow the Americans are assholes for not doing something.

I am the first to admit the wrongdoings of the US, and I do what I can, I'm just one man with one vote after all.
But as for the rest of the world, the US can't be all things to everyone. We can't be the Savior and Bad Guy all at the same time.

by **PraiseA||ah** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:58 pm

Ok ok.. I'm not getting testy but I was getting smart.

And yes, the US can be the savior and the bad guy all at the same time. We are a nation of people. Some good, some bad. Lots of people do good stuff and lots of people do bad stuff - all as Americans.

Politics.. heh. People not agreeing on politics? What!? Why I never heard of such a thing!

by **SavageParrot** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:00 pm

Originally posted by Alofwar
It because we love negativity. Another example is GCSE grades going up. Instead of were getting smarter (which were not, were getting dumber), or teaching techniques are getting better its "GCSE's are too easy". It just makes good TV to have negativity.

America is often held to higher standards, because it built itself up on having higher standards.

GCSEs are getting too easy. That's why you can't distinguish between we're and were

As for why the US gets held to a higher standard it might have something to do with the way you constantly bully and browbeat the rest of the world into accepting american style democracy. Like yours is the only system of government that is worth a damn.

Want a trade agreement? Get democracy. Want aid cos your people are starving? Get democracy. Want us to stop bombing you? Get democracy. You put commitments to move towards democracy in almost every trade agreement or aid package you make with the developing world. You are the telesalespeople of world politics. It's like you have a script you work from and you just keep repeating yourself.

On top of that you drone on and on about human rights abuses elsewhere which is admirable enough if not a little of a club fisted approach to diplomacy. You blocaded Cuba for nearly 30 years with human rights front and centre of your flimsy list of reasoning. You pressed for sanctions on Iraq on human rights grounds, ditto with Haiti. Recently you did the same for Sudan over the darfur crisis. Human rights has been top of your agenda for a long time which is good and proper but it means that you yourselves are gonna be held under a magnifying glass when it comes to your own actions.

So with that as the major basis of your diplomatic action when you don't practice what you preach people are more than willing to point with mouths wide open.

by **Evan** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:06 pm

Fuck it. Lets annex Canada, England, and Mexico.

by **SavageParrot** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:11 pm

Why would you want Canada. I mean Mexico gets the sun and England would bring a lucrative market for dentistry but what does Canada have to offer?

by **Hash** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:12 pm

Clean water and no serial killers.

by **SavageParrot** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:14 pm

but mosquitos up the ying yang...

by **cavalierlwt** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:11 pm

And the US is the only bully, the only hypocrit. The worst in the worst in the World I guess.
Well, I the son of Satan now sign off tonight, to sleep with dreams of lying to your face while I slaughter the innocents, the first and only in a world full of honest and forthright nations.

by **jingleBoy** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:09 am

i think you america haters need to pick up history books and start reading

they read a tiny (biased) article about a past event and now they're an authority on it:roll:

by **SavageParrot** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:33 am

You see this is what get me about americans...the denial

. I'm English I know we have a proud history of being shits and I'm comfortable with it; admitting your countries mistakes doesn't make you weaker. You criticise america once though and suddenly you are an america hater. Putting down all criticism as just ranting from america haters is like sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting la la la I am not listening.

Why don't you bring up the second world war again? We have heard how you saved our asses in that one for at least 10 minutes...

No america isn't the only hypocrit or the worst in the world but you have put yourselves up as the worlds leaders and it's a little late to complain that people expect you to lead in the right direction. What you are hearing is the sound of disappointment. It's like 'well if even america can't help torturing people what hope is there for everyone else'. Maybe that sounds a bit kissass but I genuinely believe that is the case. It's like when hollywood stars get caught doing something really bad, it's so much worse because of their role model status...

Like I said before being anti-guantanamo is not about being anti-america. As and american YOU should be anti-guantanamo because it goes agains all the values that america stands for and they are great values.

by **cavalierlwt** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:16 am

1) I am anti guantanamo
2) I totally cop to all the bad things America does, I'm not in denial.

That's my point exactly though. I ask, why do you hold America to a higher standard? You list a bunch of bad things America has done. My point exactly: you know we're full of shit, you know all the bad things we do, so why do you hold us to a higher standard???? Shouldn't you hold us to a lower standard??
It's like listening to a bunch of used cars salesmen, politicians, and lawyers who go to a magician's show, and then get outraged when they suddenly discover that it's all sleight of hand.
This is my point, not that America does no wrong. Reread my posts. I said if you think we're so bad, just write us off as bad guys, then at least we can have the freedom of low expectations.
I really don't understand you guys. Our country was founded by rich white slave owners who wrote 'All men are created equal', we left one country because we felt the Church was looking down it's nose at us, and when we got here, we started buning girls at the stake for having a funny shaped mole.
You guys know the score, right from the get go. Then when we do something bad, you guys have the nerve to say 'I expected better from you'

I say, don't get all bent out of shape over what we say, just over what we do. No point in going 'Well, you torture people, and that's bad, but the *real* crime is that you guy lie about freedom and Democracy'
That's simply retarded.
As for disapointment in America, I can only drive home this point with a sledgehammer: Get used to it. We are not special, we are not different from anyone else. Do not hang high hopes on us. This is what I am talking about when I say we have a weird unhealthy relationship.

by **=ender=** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:39 am

The USA = damned if you do, damned if you don't.

by **cavalierlwt** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:46 am

The sooner they stop paying attention to the whole 'bringing freedom and democracy to the world' speeches, the sooner we can be judged by a normal standard.
Everytime we do something wrong, the world is shocked and doubly pissed because they thought we were going to live up to our politician's speeches.

by **SavageParrot** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:49 am

Ha ha you are actually under the impression that it's the rest of the world that put you up on the pedestal, that funny and [sarcasm]not at all egotistical[/sarcasm].

You as a nation climbed up on the pedestal all on your own and started jumping about shouting 'we are the greatest and you all suck' over and over. If you are held to higher standards it only because you won't stop telling everyone just how superior your sytem of government . For the last 50 years and more you have travelled around the world telling every other government just exactly why they are not as good as you. You can't really be surprised when they turn around and say 'you get your house in order then maybe we'll do the same'.

World War 3 imminent

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