Sun Nov 19, 2006 4:40 pm
well i guess he was asking for it then
Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:34 pm
Police should be proportional and well measured in their use of force. Like I say, if he was fighting back, taser him, it's best for all. But if he's playing that 'rag doll' posture, drag or carry him away. No realistic chance of injury--and please, don't even TRY to say pulled muscle, etc.
Same situation, except the kid's drunk and passed out, do you stand over him and say 'Stand or be tasered'? No, you'd haul his stupid ass out of there. Same result regardless of the kid's stupid intentions.
In this case the kid was being an idiot, but a non-violent idiot.
Same situation, except the kid's drunk and passed out, do you stand over him and say 'Stand or be tasered'? No, you'd haul his stupid ass out of there. Same result regardless of the kid's stupid intentions.
In this case the kid was being an idiot, but a non-violent idiot.
Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:02 pm
Buli, you are literally making ECGN a mirror site for You Tube...
and
the if you don't listen to the law, this is what happens in the US...why is anyone surprised?
and
the if you don't listen to the law, this is what happens in the US...why is anyone surprised?
Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:04 am
by Evan
by Jingleboy
by Buliwyf
Pretty simple really... Obey and nobody gets hurt. Civilization has to have laws and the ability to enforce those laws otherwise there is chaos and anarchy.
I support it.
I support it.
by Jingleboy
that kid has no respect for authority
by Buliwyf
all the guy had to do was stand up
Pretty simple really... Obey and nobody gets hurt. Civilization has to have laws and the ability to enforce those laws otherwise there is chaos and anarchy.
I support it.
Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:26 am
Yeah you are still missing the point. He was already under arrest for not obeying the law, the punishment for that is decided by the courts.
Punishment is not, nor ever should be, decided by police officers. So unless he posed a threat, which he clearly didn't (he's handcuffed unless I am mistaken), using the tazer is an abuse of power. It's there for self defence not as a tool for intimidation or on the spot punishment.
Punishment is not, nor ever should be, decided by police officers. So unless he posed a threat, which he clearly didn't (he's handcuffed unless I am mistaken), using the tazer is an abuse of power. It's there for self defence not as a tool for intimidation or on the spot punishment.
Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:40 am
I hear what you're saying, but I look at it from a different point of view. The police are not "punishing" him for committing a crime, rather they are forcing him to comply with their demands. Demands that are not unreasonable. IMHO that's not punishment.
His punishment will be decided by a judge in court and I am fairly sure he will have an attorney to represent him. Should he not be able to afford an attorney, one will be assigned to him, per the laws of our country. (Which is more than a lot of countries, I might add.)
I agree there is always a chance of abuse of power and it probably happens more frequently than we realize; however I believe we must have obedience to authority otherwise anarchy will reign.
(I've been known to be wrong before... just ask my wife):P
His punishment will be decided by a judge in court and I am fairly sure he will have an attorney to represent him. Should he not be able to afford an attorney, one will be assigned to him, per the laws of our country. (Which is more than a lot of countries, I might add.)
I agree there is always a chance of abuse of power and it probably happens more frequently than we realize; however I believe we must have obedience to authority otherwise anarchy will reign.
(I've been known to be wrong before... just ask my wife):P
Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:44 am
Right but there are dozens of ways to take him to the car that don't involve using a tazer to cause him pain. It's just unecessary...
Also blind obedience to authority is not healthy. If the law is unjust and I think it is here then I'd consider it worthy to protest it.
Also blind obedience to authority is not healthy. If the law is unjust and I think it is here then I'd consider it worthy to protest it.
Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:56 pm
Police are there to apprehend lawbreakers and actions should only be done to insure the positive or least negative outcome while arresting them, not for reasons of morality or ethics.
The cops have two choices with the kid laying on the floor. Carry/drag him out, or taser him. What's the negative outcome of carrying/dragging him out? There's literally no chance for injury since he's not fighting. So, why take the harshest route? Once again, morality and ethics are off the table, that's for the courts to decide. It should be about expediency, safety, and common sense. I say again and again, it's different if he's forcing them to wrestle or fight him, but that's not the case.
Everybody has a friend who's an idiot, imagine if this was your friend, drunk on the floor and passed out. Would you approve of the cops using the taser to rouse him out of his stupor, or would you prefer they just haul his drunk ass back to the cop car?
The cops have two choices with the kid laying on the floor. Carry/drag him out, or taser him. What's the negative outcome of carrying/dragging him out? There's literally no chance for injury since he's not fighting. So, why take the harshest route? Once again, morality and ethics are off the table, that's for the courts to decide. It should be about expediency, safety, and common sense. I say again and again, it's different if he's forcing them to wrestle or fight him, but that's not the case.
Everybody has a friend who's an idiot, imagine if this was your friend, drunk on the floor and passed out. Would you approve of the cops using the taser to rouse him out of his stupor, or would you prefer they just haul his drunk ass back to the cop car?
Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:06 pm
Originally posted by cavalierlwt
There's literally no chance for injury since he's not fighting. So, why take the harshest route?
Everybody has a friend who's an idiot, imagine if this was your friend, drunk on the floor and passed out. Would you approve of the cops using the taser to rouse him out of his stupor, or would you prefer they just haul his drunk ass back to the cop car?
Not Fighting???? He is going to struggle with the cops, trying to break free if the cops dragged him out. Listen to the beginning of the vid. Hes literally screaming at the cops to not touch him. Thats an indication of hes going to fight with the cops either way. Tasering him would subdue him. And he couldn't have just stood up.
And what the hell does this have to do with a friend drunk and passed out. If hes passed out then why would you to taser him. HES OUT COLD! Hes not going to bring much of a fight. This guy was not passed out on the floor! He was supposly handcuffed and sitting on the floor. No one can know for sure (unless you read the police report) b/c the vid really sucks at capturing the guy.
Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:41 pm
Look even if he was trying to put up a fight it still wouldn't warrant the tazer. He's unarmed and he's handcuffed. It's not exactly a life and death situation for the police officers involved.
The tazer is intended for self defence not as a cattle prod.
The tazer is intended for self defence not as a cattle prod.
Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:48 pm
Correct me if I"m wrong, but don't the Bobbies in England use wooden sticks (batons) to ensure compliance with their demands?
I'm not sure which is worse, being tazered or being hit with a wooden club. One would think a taser would inflict less damage, whereas a club might break bones. Either way the poice must have some method of enforceing their demands.
I'm not sure which is worse, being tazered or being hit with a wooden club. One would think a taser would inflict less damage, whereas a club might break bones. Either way the poice must have some method of enforceing their demands.
Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:16 pm
No they use their batons for self defence same as your police use nightsticks (In fact most of them carry US model batons anyway). Situation like this they'd never get away with using one of those... They'd have dragged him.
But then maybe our police don't eat as many doughnuts
*Incidentally our police have tazers as well (though I imagine fewer un number) and my reaction wouldn't be any different if it was one of them doing this. It's worth noting that our policemen don't generally carry guns (we have armed units but not that many) so the tazer is pretty much their last resort. I don't think they are as casual with it as your lot... yet.
But then maybe our police don't eat as many doughnuts
*Incidentally our police have tazers as well (though I imagine fewer un number) and my reaction wouldn't be any different if it was one of them doing this. It's worth noting that our policemen don't generally carry guns (we have armed units but not that many) so the tazer is pretty much their last resort. I don't think they are as casual with it as your lot... yet.
Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:19 pm
I would hate to be a police officer these days. I always say, the only way to talk to a cop is yes sir, no sir and always say thank you (not for catching me but for doing a service to society) when they are done. This should avoid any problems in the future. Now if I felt the cop was wrong I certainly wouldn't take it up with him/her. That can be done after the fact with a lawyer and an investigation. Or you can be a pain in the ass and risk getting tasered. To each their own.
Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:29 pm
Originally posted by [ECGN] BTT
I would hate to be a police officer these days. I always say, the only way to talk to a cop is yes sir, no sir and always say thank you (not for catching me but for doing a service to society) when they are done. This should avoid any problems in the future. Now if I felt the cop was wrong I certainly wouldn't take it up with him/her. That can be done after the fact with a lawyer and an investigation. Or you can be a pain in the ass and risk getting tasered. To each their own.
Thanks Tony finally a good answer. Also resistance is resistance. Doesn't matter if the cuffs are on or not.
Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:02 pm
And this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FRnh9f1NnU&mode=related&search=
Excuses on a postcard please...
As for whether or not the tazer (or taser) whatever you prefer is dangerous try googling "dies taser", Yeah seems absolutely safe. Not to mention the fact that ;Tazer International' the makers of these sweet babies admit they can contribute to death. Makes it so much more fun to watch when the kid in this is yelling that he has a medical condition and even though he is probably lying the police don't bat an eylid about continung to stun him. Yeah, yeehaa lets get us a death live on video it'll be funny as fuck!
Here this is pretty funny too:
http://www.yourlawyer.com/articles/read/10577
Seems like not all policemen are a fan
Amnesty international don't like it either seeing as I am on a roll:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engamr511392004
I particularly like the bit about using a tazer on kids as young as 9.
"In May 2004 a police officer from South Tuscon, Arizona, used a taser on a nine-year-old girl who was a runaway from a residential home for severely emotionally disturbed children."
Yeah those 9 year old girls can be a bugger to deal with without the ol' hand padle portable pain device. Still if you don't do what a policeman tells you you had those 50,000 volts and that agonising pain coming...
I'm not against the use of the tazer. In fact as an altenative to firearms I think it's an extremely good solution. But when you are routinely using it in situations which pose little or no threat then your really need to rethink the policy on their use. Using it when otherwsie you'd have to use lethal force, good. Using it becasue you asked for no sprinkles on your doughnut and they put sprinkles on anyway, bad.
If they were working his kidneys with some choice punches would that be ok? That's not likely to kill him. Or what about slapping him around the face I mean that's obviously reasonable right? Maybe they could just stand on his nuts till he agrees? No-one could possibly disagree with that. I was always a big fan of putting a plastic bag over their head and starving them of oxygen, think maybe I could sell custom bags to the police for that? I mean it's pretty sure to be non-lethal.
Don't make the mistake of thinking that just becasue it is unlikely to kill that it's all one big funny joke. They are casuing that kid pain and as easy as it would be for the kid to avoid the pain by toeing the line he's not the one in the position of authority.
Still at least it's given me an idea. I'm gonna go take the battery out of one of those disposable cameras so the next time my 8 year old cousin gives me some lip and refuses to go to bed when I tell him to I can zap the little fucker to sleep. Yeah that ought to make my babysitting duties a lot easier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FRnh9f1NnU&mode=related&search=
Excuses on a postcard please...
As for whether or not the tazer (or taser) whatever you prefer is dangerous try googling "dies taser", Yeah seems absolutely safe. Not to mention the fact that ;Tazer International' the makers of these sweet babies admit they can contribute to death. Makes it so much more fun to watch when the kid in this is yelling that he has a medical condition and even though he is probably lying the police don't bat an eylid about continung to stun him. Yeah, yeehaa lets get us a death live on video it'll be funny as fuck!
Here this is pretty funny too:
http://www.yourlawyer.com/articles/read/10577
Seems like not all policemen are a fan
Amnesty international don't like it either seeing as I am on a roll:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engamr511392004
I particularly like the bit about using a tazer on kids as young as 9.
"In May 2004 a police officer from South Tuscon, Arizona, used a taser on a nine-year-old girl who was a runaway from a residential home for severely emotionally disturbed children."
Yeah those 9 year old girls can be a bugger to deal with without the ol' hand padle portable pain device. Still if you don't do what a policeman tells you you had those 50,000 volts and that agonising pain coming...
I'm not against the use of the tazer. In fact as an altenative to firearms I think it's an extremely good solution. But when you are routinely using it in situations which pose little or no threat then your really need to rethink the policy on their use. Using it when otherwsie you'd have to use lethal force, good. Using it becasue you asked for no sprinkles on your doughnut and they put sprinkles on anyway, bad.
If they were working his kidneys with some choice punches would that be ok? That's not likely to kill him. Or what about slapping him around the face I mean that's obviously reasonable right? Maybe they could just stand on his nuts till he agrees? No-one could possibly disagree with that. I was always a big fan of putting a plastic bag over their head and starving them of oxygen, think maybe I could sell custom bags to the police for that? I mean it's pretty sure to be non-lethal.
Don't make the mistake of thinking that just becasue it is unlikely to kill that it's all one big funny joke. They are casuing that kid pain and as easy as it would be for the kid to avoid the pain by toeing the line he's not the one in the position of authority.
Still at least it's given me an idea. I'm gonna go take the battery out of one of those disposable cameras so the next time my 8 year old cousin gives me some lip and refuses to go to bed when I tell him to I can zap the little fucker to sleep. Yeah that ought to make my babysitting duties a lot easier.