Bill Gates has big balls

[cavalierlwt]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070307/ap_on_go_co/congress_bill_gates

Bill Gate is crying about the educational system and the lack of math, science, and engineering grads in America....while at the same time he outsources to India like there is no tomorrow.

[SavageParrot]

LoL because they can add and subtract and work for half the price. It's not like the 2 are unrelated

The real pertinant fact to quote would be something like he has more money than the entire federal education budget. I dunno if it's true but probably

[cavalierlwt]

I've sobered up to fact that it's a world economy, and that cheaper labor is cheaper labor. I'm sure India is capable of turning out top notch engineers, we're all human, we all have similar capabilities. It's just the way of the world, much as it will suck for us in the future. What kills me is the Hamlet act these guys put on --""The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

They don't face up to the truth, and they don't want any kind of backlash against them, so they spew this crap. Now we'll start spending more money and pushing kids toward engineering and flood the market with uneeded engineers. It's not fair to the current engineers who will lose their power to command a decent wage, and it's not fair to the taxpayers that Gate's expects to take up this crusade.

[Lord ZOG]

Talk about having big balls, get a load of this.

The upcoming Daylight Savings Time changes are causing a mild panic attack for many IT personel, especially if they happen to be in charge of maintaining an Exchange server.

While the DST tool is a free upgrade for 90% of Windows and Windows Server products Microsoft is charging $4000.00 for the same tool for users of Microsoft Exchange Server 2000.

Microsoft is claiming that product is out of it's support period and feels that the price is more than reasonable.

I say Microsoft is gouging their own customers in an attempt to alienate them and get them thinking about using other products.

"Dear Bill, when your offspring are mopping the floors of their Chinese masters 20 years hence, look back to this period of time and consider yourself responsible for America's fall from grace."

[cavalierlwt]

$4000 for a little snippet of code to adjust the time automatically twice a year?? Huge balls indeed. That's enough money to make plenty of smaller businesses say screw it, let's migrate to something else.

[gowhitesox99]

i am knee deep in this stuff for all our devices at work... its crazy

[CodeRed68]

I think the real issue that Gates it pointing out, and this is not new news or surprising, is that the US public education system sucks! Teachers don't care enough, and don't get paid enough. Kids are allowed to skate by with what would have been failing grades, etc. But that's another government program for you, so there you have it. Private schools and the privatization of the school system is the way to a better, higher, more caring education of this nation's kids.

[YOOPER]

It's times like this that make me thankful I don't have to deal with this crap with my job...

Kudos to the rest of ya. I wouldn't have the patience...my attention span is far too short.

[cavalierlwt]

I think the real issue that Gates it pointing out, and this is not new news or surprising, is that the US public education system sucks! Teachers don't care enough, and don't get paid enough. Kids are allowed to skate by with what would have been failing grades, etc. But that's another government program for you, so there you have it. Private schools and the privatization of the school system is the way to a better, higher, more caring education of this nation's kids.

No, he's asking for an overhaul in immigration laws--in otherwords H1B visas, and saying we need to devote more money toward math and science. Whether we're deficient in these areas is irrelevant from his true motivations because he's one of the people making these areas irrelevant. That's my whole point. It's like a successful bank robber writing a letter to the paper crying about the poor security at the bank he robbed--it might be true, but he has big balls to cry about it.

[CodeRed68]

No, he's asking for an overhaul in immigration laws--in otherwords H1B visas, and saying we need to devote more money toward math and science. Whether we're deficient in these areas is irrelevant from his true motivations because he's one of the people making these areas irrelevant. That's my whole point. It's like a successful bank robber writing a letter to the paper crying about the poor security at the bank he robbed--it might be true, but he has big balls to cry about it.

sorry cav, but i dont think that is the argument he is making. According to the article, the only thing mentioned about immigration is that federal law allows 65,000 visas to highly skilled, engineers, scientists, etc. and that is still not enough.. that microsoft cannot fill 3000 tech jobs due to lack of skilled U.S. workers. There is absolutely nothing mentioned about outsourcing jobs, etc. But should he complain about this? One would say "no, of course not." But he is and does give tremendously to charity. 3 bil in the last 8 years from a privately owned company to help with scholorships and educational programs.

[cavalierlwt]

I find it highly unlikely that the govt needs to issue more H1b visas due to a shortage of qualified engineerns in the US. Not buying, not for one second. My point is exactly that he is crying that he has to go overseas for a lack of well trained software engineers, and he blames the education system. This is complete and utter bullshit. He's going overseas (or importing cheap labor via H1B visas) because it's cheaper. In doing so, there is less incentive for kids to start engineering programs. It's a self fullfilling prophecy.

It's a fact of life, over time, the value of engineers will be outpaced by other professions (chemistry, biotech?) and this is due to supply and demand: other countries are now supplying Engineers in record numbers...and at a lower price. Gates is part of this trend, whether he wants to admit or not. But he's trying to blame the trend on declining quantity/quality of domestic engineers and not price. I say the the drop in quantity is directly related to the offshoring. Ask college kids why they are choosing other programs instead of Engineering. They won't say 'Because I suck and Bill Gates won't hire me'. They'll say they see Engineering as a risky career path.

I personally would like to see kids do better in math and science in high school, but I sure as hell wouldn't start pushing them toward engineering or most science degrees, fact is we'd just be setting them up for a fall. If the jobs are really there, then the wages should get hot, and when that happens kids choose engineering programs in college. Supply and demand takes care of the problem. I'm not ragging Gates for offshoring, I am annoyed that he's taking part in it, and then blaming us for it.

[cavalierlwt]

Here's another article, about the same news story, but it shows the other side:
http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2007/02/21/study_forecasts_offshoring_to_hit_hub_lowell_harder/
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-11153_22-6165166-2.html?tag=st.next

And from another article:
Senator Sherrod Brown (news, bio, voting record), an Ohio Democrat, said he heard different stories from industries and workers during forums on the economy in his state last month. "Time and time again, local businesses told me that they just could not find the engineers or the computer scientists they needed to run their businesses," he said. "At the same time, skilled workers in my state are watching their jobs move overseas, not because foreign workers are more qualified, but because U.S. companies can get away with paying poverty wages to workers in other countries."

[Namloot]

"Time and time again, local businesses told me that they just could not find the engineers or the computer scientists they needed to run their businesses,"

I'll translate:

"Time and time again, local business told me that they just could not find the engineers or the computer scientists willing to work 70 hours a week for $25k a year with no medical benefits or retirement package."

If anyone thinks it's anything else, they really don't understand what is happening in America with respect to labor and immigration.

This could very easily get political, and is a really sore spot for me, so I will shut up now

[Chacal]

On the other hand, here in Canada I have to turn down interesting contracts in IT security because I can't find anyone to hire, at very good wages and conditions.

Last year I had 50 students (kids and adults) enrolled in my IT security course at the local university, this year I had 25, and it's not just because I'm known for choking a couple every year (who doesn't?), the same is observed in all IT departments. Kids now enroll in administration and economy and other useless bullshit that will quickly pay for their BMW.

[cavalierlwt]

On the other hand, here in Canada I have to turn down interesting contracts in IT security because I can't find anyone to hire, at very good wages and conditions.

IT Security looks pretty hot right now, but I think people have been spooked by the whole IT collapse though. Here in America few sectors have been hit as hard as IT. It only stabilized after a ton of people left the business altogether. Remember, prospective students have friends/relatives that graduated in the last ten years, they turn to them for advice. A person starting their college career is going to look down the road 5 years, 10 years, etc. Given the input from past IT graduates, it's no surprise that students have chosen paths that appear safer-- I use the word 'appear' because you never truly know.
Same thing for Database admins and such, niche market, kinda hot, but people are skittish.