What is it with criminalization in the US?

[King]

http://www.break.com/index/security_test.html

LOL, add Australia to the list.

[Chacal]

King, there are so many things we don't agree on, but you are providing some insight to the question I'm asking in the topic title.

My point is this: crime and the law are not arbitrary subjects. If a crime is committed, then a punishment should occur..

No, I don't see why this is so important. Depends on a lot of other factors. This is the very root of the problem, probably, this craving of punishment. You guys really love it: prisons, shackles, bad guys getting arrested on police shows. I hear it is tied with the baptist faith that crime must be atoned with punishment (no requirement for the punished being guilty). What I know is: it doesn't work. Crime prevention isn't tied with punishment. It is tied with education.

But more on the current topic, you say "if crime is committed". I submit that a bunch of stupid teens doing a bad prank are NOT doing a crime, and police doesn't have to be called, and said stupid teens do not deserve a criminal file that will destroy the rest of their life. Hence the topic title: I'm trying to understand why everything has to be criminalized now in the US.

In the case of the students, who is responsible for the door they broke? The school, the students who broke it, or the taxpayers who put money into the school district? Same goes for the catfish bait they smeared all over the place. Where is the accountability?

It is still there of course. Responsibility and punishment can still come to them of course, from school and parents. I was a teacher for a long time, and I certainly wasn't letting kids get away with bad behavior. But I would have protected them against the police for something like this. We actually did, a few times.

I see the punishment as a valuable tool which can be applied in later life. What happens to a person when they stick their hand in a fire? It gets burned and it hurts like hell. Do you stick your hand back in after its healed?

I wish this was true for everything that must be learned. It is not. Especially in this case where punishment comes with a criminal file because once you've done the time the punishment doesn't end. It follows you for the rest of your life, you can't get a job, can't fly in a plane, for some crimes you can't even live where you want. Thus ensuring that you will have to resort to crime again, thus ensuring another satisfying punishment for you guys.

Police-state mentality? So be it. I'm not saying be an informer, call the FBI when some muslims move into the neighborhood but if you don't do a crime, then you don't have to worry about being punished by the FBI, KGB, SS or evil group.

That's another interesting topic that I'll leave for another time, especially since it borders on the political. Let's just say I disagree, you do have to worry, especially when the evil group defines what crime is.

[King]

We might disagree on the subject but we also see it from two very different perspectives, you as an outsider looking in and me as an insider looking out.

300 million people are a lot of people to protect and or control, and yes i do realize that the choice of words there further implicate my belief in the police-state many people despise.

These are options that i see here:

1) let parents set the rules and societal guidelines as to which a child must adhere and perform the punishments for not following said guidelines.

2) let representatives of our society set the rules and societal guidelines as to which everyone including adults and children has to adhere and let officials of the government/regime/controlling figures perform the punishments for not following the rules and guidelines.

3) have no rules, only guidelines that people have to loosely follow with minimal or no repercussions.

And please do tell me if there is another option, I may not see it or think of it as a viable solution to our quest to determine how to govern the populous.

And just for the fun of it, here is meriam-webster's definition of the word: Government. http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/government

Can you please change my name from Forum Whore to Fascist? I'd enjoy that so much.

I'm not trying to be a prick about this debate, yes i know i come off as abrasive and rude, but hey, I'm just being me.

[Chacal]

I see lots of other options.
The first two you suggest are not mutually exclusive, the third isn't possible in real society.
Why not just add to number 2, "... while still using good judgment, instead of blindly following the law".
Take for example mandatory sentences for drug offences, that's the most stupid things lawmakers could have done.

But your options still only deal with punishment, which, I repeat, has been proven to be uneffective as a long-term crime-reducing measure.

[Sabres]

So... I'm a senior right now and the end of the year is near. We need a good prank, we have some ideas but nothing real good yet. haha!

[-HaVoC-]

I'll say this and go. I've seen cases were people are jailed for marijuana possession and I've seen cases were child molesters in Vermont were released on a simple 60 day jail term and some psychiatric evals. This is a problem with every country. It's a human problem and because it is it suffers from the same inherent successes and failures as any other human related problem. I think we can all agree that we could find far greater atrocious acts against citizens of certain countries if we would choose to take the time to document them here. This is a jump on the bandwagon and insult the US thread and I'll say it again, it's insulting and meaningless.

But your options still only deal with punishment, which, I repeat, has been proven to be uneffective as a long-term crime-reducing measure.

So does that approval you mention recommend anything to substitute in it's place for a course of action?