stacked teams, 3 min rounds on beach, no sportsmanship

[xdeadeye1]

tldr

[magus]

The shuffle thing is difficult- when you've been on a team that has been destroyed in a previous round and the shuffle has left all the OSP pros on one side it's hard to remain calm and circumspect- and then when people sit in spec waiting to join the stacked team it's pretty infuriating. Most of the people doing the stacking know better- the admins know that they know better. I hear what both Shooter and MsB are saying- it can't always be even, the shuffle isn't perfect- I understand that, and therefore it would be nice to see people who repeatedly deliberately stack the sides getting a kick now and again to perhaps remind them to play with a bit more class? And the double whammy of joining a stacked axis side, spawning in forward bunker and then taking the flag- why as an admin would you not kick someone for doing that?

[CarpetClay Profile]

#whine

[Tragic Profile]

About the shuffle - our algorithm is: for one !shuffle it shuffles three times. Used to be, don't know if it changed.
If you see the admin do a !shuffle kill out with a nade before the round starts. Then you'll see what team you will be on.
A shuffle is a shuffle, - can't get a new shuffle if you get bad cards in poker yeah?
Play it and try to make the best of it.
- I mean who complained back in the days. I think it's to much whining the older the game gets and players getting lazy or think they are leet. It WILL be a full hold or skulls for the other team sooner or later.
I'm happy there is a lot of OSP cups at the moment with coverage by old school Warwitch the shoutcaster and co. So there arre many old schoolers coming back that still are REALLY good players. Enjoy the game.
Here check out some of the recent shoutcasting/recordings from the latest cups: http://www.twitch.tv/warwitchtv
Have a look, some epic moments here and there. Check some of the awesome frags from the last cup here:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... 8HGVAepb_s

EDIT: Really, watch them above in the link... you'll see how good some guys are and you've seen few of them on ecgn too.

And for some of the morons that will show up here and there, we admins try to do the the best of our ability about them. We can't see it all tho.
The rest MsB said earlier in the thread.
Have fun.

Frags from groupstage from the current cup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... d-ENLQMfi0

[Zabad Profile]

I forgot all about that tournament. Aside from links to some lame frag videos with awful music that doesn't even match, I wouldn't even know it existed.

[WinterWarlock Profile]

George M. Hitler here...

I too love this game and have been playing since 2002. As a Happy-Penguin regular, I loved that server and miss it. Since being on ECGN I have noticed two things:

1) There is a common type of player. The KD whore. This player ALWAYS plays medic. This player will go for every kill possible even if team mates are in the way, because it is CRITICAL he get the kill points, even if it means TK'ing players who are in the way. ALL health packets are for them alone, they will not share or drop any for anybody else. They MIGHT revive if no enemies are anywhere even remotely in their vicinity, otherwise they're too busy hunting down enemies to pay any attention to teammates needing revives and/or heath. They brag about their KD ratio, and look down with disgust anybody who does not do the same, constantly yelling at teammates "MOVE!" "You're worthless!" and going out of their way to troll and berate their own team.

This is not a team player. This is not someone who gives a shit about their team. They're doing a 1 man war and its all about them. This is not someone who contributes a friendly atmosphere to players wanting to play a fun game with fellow players. They are toxic and make everything around them toxic. Simply, they ruin the game for others. Not just by what they do, but how they attack fellow players even on their own team making it so others just don't want to play there anymore.

2) With FF on, accidents happen. Sometimes you accidentally get TK'ed. Unfortunately there are many psychopatic types (see #1 above for example) who will go out of their way to take things personally and strike back by TK'ing you. I've even seen incidents where certain nutbars would accidentally get TK'ed once and spend the entire round repeatedly intentionally TK'ing that person back over and over again.

One of the reasons I miss Happy Penguin so much was because FF was off and unlimited lives, so no "accidents" to react to, and ppl wouldn't be skulled with 10 mins left of game play, but could actually have fun. Plus, the server was always automatically balanced. And the Mods made sure ppl had fun through map rotations, but laying a heavy hand on trolls and shit disturbers. Kicks, slaps, launching in air, reversing view, mute, etc. But, sadly the server died due to bad pings and internal Mod infighting. Thanks MsB for trying to play Depot to make it feel like home, but it isn't the same.

I'm not going to get further into the FF/limited lives issue. I know Man At Arms is determined to keep it that way. Its his server. So be it.

I play the game for fun. The only "KD" I know is Kraft Dinner (macaroni & cheese). I'm a lousy shot. If I get 1 kill, its a miracle. But as a medic, I will ALWAYS revive others even if surrounded by 10+ enemies, I will always drop health for others, I'll often go LT to hand out ammo when needed, or go engineer to blow doors/gates/whatever so teammates can get to the objective. Don't count on me in a shootout, but I'll always have your back.

But so long as teams remain unbalanced, and trolls linger to make it a truely toxic environment... I'm not inspired to play. More often, these days, you'll see me sitting in spec mode. Often, I'm finding spec mode more fun than actually playing. Because its about the only fun I have left.

And Mods, if you're going to do rotation.. make sure BOTH SIDES have equal time. If one team starts a map with 25 mins, and finishes it in 3... sure its fun to try to beat it in 3, but if we can't... that's when THE OTHER TEAM starts the map at 25 mins so THEY GET A FAIR CHANCE AT THE MAP TOO!! I'm disgusted when I want to play an Allied Engineer on a cool map, but play 25 minutes as an Axis.. biding my time... waiting.. and when it comes my time to finally play the Allied Engineer I've been WAITING FOR.. we got 2.5 minutes... we lose... and on to the next map... and !shuffle puts me back on Axis. *sigh* And back to Spec mode for me.

I love this game, but I find myself stuck in Spec mode more and more these days. I don't want to uninstall the game, but I don't have the love for playing anymore. Its not fun anymore. And ever since I started playing this game, I always followed 2 rules:

a) Never take anything seriously. Relax and have fun!
b) The moment you break the above rule, leave immediately. (It isn't worth the stress)

I don't know how to do (a) anymore...

[Zabad Profile]

I can sympathize with your experience. You admit to being a poor shot. However you'll excuse me if I question your motives with an alias like that. Further, I've noticed there are a few players who do nothing more on the server than hand out packs. Is that honestly fun? I find that very peculiar. An example of a player like this is Mjr. Evilous.

Speaking as a positve KD medic who goes for obj rather than the spawn camp, I have to object to most of your criticisms.

This player will go for every kill possible even if team mates are in the way, because it is CRITICAL he get the kill points, even if it means TK'ing players who are in the way. ALL health packets are for them alone, they will not share or drop any for anybody else. They MIGHT revive if no enemies are anywhere even remotely in their vicinity, otherwise they're too busy hunting down enemies to pay any attention to teammates needing revives and/or heath.

95% of the time this is a case of an oblivious teammate, with a grenade/pack in hand, running into a vicious crossfire that has been occuring already for centuries. The result is, much to your amazement, you take double the damage and die, you get yourself and your teammate killed, or you let the enemy get away. Getting that kill is indeed critical and benefits the team as a whole. What is NOT critical is that pack or that grenade that has been tossed with only a teammate in view.

I've also noticed that many players will stop and pack up in wildly disadvantageous locations. Overwhelmingly outnumbered, and seemingly unaware of the enemy onslaught headed their way, ... packs. That is quite frankly utter foolishness. I'll give you your precious packs and revives, but there is a time and a place. Pay more attention!

Even worse, a teammate may be engaged in an intense dogfight with the enemy, swifly covering a lot of ground with evasive maneuvers, and instead of helping in the shootout, certain players will obstruct their teammates with pack/needle in hand. Another example where your pack is not critical and your gun is. Infact, you are actually a detriment to the team.

If you are legitemately mentally handicapped, like certain players actually are, then you can ignore the following paragraph and I'll understand. Otherwise there is simply no excuse for a sentient adult being to play like this. You must change the way you play and try and undo the bad habits you learned from HP no FF.

These are the same players that consistently deal out the most team damage as well. Many times these type of players single handedly destroy their entire team at critical moments of battle either by grenades, dyno, or obstruction. Who are the toxic players again? Again I question your motives. I can't beleive these guys actually have fun spectating or spamming packs. I suspect they're just waiting for the right moment to teambleed/teamkill. This is how they have their fun. If true, the following quote is a perfect example of your blatant hypocrisy...

This is not a team player. This is not someone who gives a shit about their team. They're doing a 1 man war and its all about them. This is not someone who contributes a friendly atmosphere to players wanting to play a fun game with fellow players. They are toxic and make everything around them toxic. Simply, they ruin the game for others. Not just by what they do, but how they attack fellow players even on their own team making it so others just don't want to play there anymore.

You don't want us to play there anymore? Why not just shut down the server then? Again, judging by your aliases, you have more evil and wicked intentions.

[WinterWarlock Profile]

I can sympathize with your experience. You admit to being a poor shot. However you'll excuse me if I question your motives with an alias like that. Further, I've noticed there are a few players who do nothing more on the server than hand out packs. Is that honestly fun? I find that very peculiar. An example of a player like this is Mjr. Evilous.

Speaking as a positve KD medic who goes for obj rather than the spawn camp, I have to object to most of your criticisms.

This player will go for every kill possible even if team mates are in the way, because it is CRITICAL he get the kill points, even if it means TK'ing players who are in the way. ALL health packets are for them alone, they will not share or drop any for anybody else. They MIGHT revive if no enemies are anywhere even remotely in their vicinity, otherwise they're too busy hunting down enemies to pay any attention to teammates needing revives and/or heath.

95% of the time this is a case of an oblivious teammate, with a grenade/pack in hand, running into a vicious crossfire that has been occuring already for centuries. The result is, much to your amazement, you take double the damage and die, you get yourself and your teammate killed, or you let the enemy get away. Getting that kill is indeed critical and benefits the team as a whole. What is NOT critical is that pack or that grenade that has been tossed with only a teammate in view.

I've also noticed that many players will stop and pack up in wildly disadvantageous locations. Overwhelmingly outnumbered, and seemingly unaware of the enemy onslaught headed their way, ... packs. That is quite frankly utter foolishness. I'll give you your precious packs and revives, but there is a time and a place. Pay more attention!

Even worse, a teammate may be engaged in an intense dogfight with the enemy, swifly covering a lot of ground with evasive maneuvers, and instead of helping in the shootout, certain players will obstruct their teammates with pack/needle in hand. Another example where your pack is not critical and your gun is. Infact, you are actually a detriment to the team.

If you are legitemately mentally handicapped, like certain players actually are, then you can ignore the following paragraph and I'll understand. Otherwise there is simply no excuse for a sentient adult being to play like this. You must change the way you play and try and undo the bad habits you learned from HP no FF.

These are the same players that consistently deal out the most team damage as well. Many times these type of players single handedly destroy their entire team at critical moments of battle either by grenades, dyno, or obstruction. Who are the toxic players again? Again I question your motives. I can't beleive these guys actually have fun spectating or spamming packs. I suspect they're just waiting for the right moment to teambleed/teamkill. This is how they have their fun. If true, the following quote is a perfect example of your blatant hypocrisy...

This is not a team player. This is not someone who gives a shit about their team. They're doing a 1 man war and its all about them. This is not someone who contributes a friendly atmosphere to players wanting to play a fun game with fellow players. They are toxic and make everything around them toxic. Simply, they ruin the game for others. Not just by what they do, but how they attack fellow players even on their own team making it so others just don't want to play there anymore.

You don't want us to play there anymore? Why not just shut down the server then? Again, judging by your aliases, you have more evil and wicked intentions.

Going after my old alias is fair enough. I started using the alias George W. Hitler in 2003 for obviously political reasons as a protest. However, despite the name.. I rarely actually discussed politics. I'd just keep quiet and play the game. Others would argue. In 2008, I knew it was time to move on with a new alias, but couldn't come up with one so I jokingly changed it to George M. Hitler in the mean time. Around 2009, I've since changed it to WinterWarlock. But nobody knew me under that alias, and I found it easier to resort back to my old alias so people knew who I was. Lately I've been playing under the name of PoohBear. And surely nothing is more evil or wicked than a yellow bear.

BTW, I'm not attacking all medics. I'm not saying people who go for positive KD's are ALL like the example I've mentioned above. But it is definatelty present. There ARE people who do this. That's why teammates are often complaining about not being revived or no health packets.

And no, I'm not talking about "oblivious" players. I suggest you go back and re-read how I described it, as I was bang on with my description. I notice a lot sitting in spec.

Getting that kill is fine. You say getting that kill is indeed critical and benefits the team as a whole. I say what is critical is the revive that gets more teammates into the fight, to increase your teams chances, and to save your teammates critical lives so they don't skull early and leave you less players.

Also, I was describing one specific scenario. Yes, there are those who throw grenades wildly or TK for fun, or set dyno inappropriately, etc. I never suggested there weren't. I was only discussing ONE SPECIFIC SCENARIO. So, no, there is no hypocracy in what I was saying.

I'm a weekend warrior. Unlike some on there, I don't live in my mother's basement and consider my fulltime career being the ultimate gamer. I work all week at a stressful job, and once in a while spend an hour here or there on the weekend playing the game, trying to relax and have some fun and be a part of the team helping out where I can. I'm at the best I'll ever be.

I have just as much right to be there as any other player. Even more so because I don't spend my time yelling at teammates, berating them and making it impossible for them to play. Say what you will about my alias, that's the past. But I'm no troll.

If you want to play there, then play there. If I want to play there, I will do so. But if you're going to sit there in game and spend your time trying to rip me a new asshole because I don't fit your qualifications of a "good player" and troll just because I value reviving teammates over getting the ultimate kill, then just shut up and play.. or leave. Your choice. No need to be a complete asshole and ruin EVERYBODY's gaming experience.

If I'm reviving teammates and helping my team stay alive, I'm certainly a help to the team, regardless of KD ratio.

[Zabad Profile]

Perhaps comparing you to players such as Mjr. Evilous, or Satan'sLuvStiK was a bit unfair.

I have just as much right to be there as any other player. Even more so because I don't spend my time yelling at teammates, berating them and making it impossible for them to play. Say what you will about my alias, that's the past. But I'm no troll.

If you want to play there, then play there. If I want to play there, I will do so. But if you're going to sit there in game and spend your time trying to rip me a new asshole because I don't fit your qualifications of a "good player" and troll just because I value reviving teammates over getting the ultimate kill, then just shut up and play.. or leave. Your choice. No need to be a complete asshole and ruin EVERYBODY's gaming experience.

I agree with this. However I've experienced raging insults simply for not reviving when someone thought I should. I've also experienced vengeful trolling just for playing the way I want or for being more skilled. It works both ways, but if you want to just revive and pack, I certainly won't insult you for it. I'll be busy playing the way I want.

Getting that kill is fine. You say getting that kill is indeed critical and benefits the team as a whole. I say what is critical is the revive that gets more teammates into the fight, to increase your teams chances, and to save your teammates critical lives so they don't skull early and leave you less players.

Again, you can play how you want I won't complain but trust me you are wrong here. Wisdom is shown to be right by it's results. It is no coincidence that the team with the most pack spammers and excessive revivers gets skulled first. If your first instinct when faced with the enemy is to always go down for the revive regardless of the circumstances, 9 times out of 10 you're only delaying your inevitable defeat. Most likely you will only end up dying a few more times before your defense is overwhelmed and annihilated.

From a practical perspective, it may be better to just fall back and reinforce another defensive line or to just shoot and cause as much damage as possible before the next respawn. From a personal perspective, if I was just engaged in a bloody duel with the enemy, and he happens to defeat me, I want you to avenge me and finish him off before reviving me instead of letting him get away!

While it may seem like you are helping your teammates for the moment, you and your teammates will always be caught off gaurd, without your machine guns, and be overrun easily. The enemy will swiftly advance uncontested leaving only a trail of unrevivable giblets and carnage behind them. Take my word for it, you will always have a negative KD and you will be skulled first.

When I spectate players more skilled than myself, I try and figure out how I might be able to withstand their attacks, but more importantly, I try and figure out how I might better attack them. You are not as good as you'll ever be, especially if you don't even try to shoot back at the enemy. Even if it's just on the weekends, you will get better if you make it a point to practice shooting more.

I'm not saying that you should never pack or revive, just that you should be more deliberate about when and where you do it. In a game with such astounding violence, it should be obvious that killing the other team is the most effective way to help your team.

[pinkname Profile]

Hello guys!

I'd add my couple words to the topic, since I see many of you think quite black and white, also quite darkish.

Why I even play at ECGN: if there was any other pub, I'd try that instead. ECGN was a bad joke while there were other servers. I'm laughed at by old mates cus I play here. I stopped being "proish" when I didn't upgrade my comp, nor my ISP and I couldn't simply hit enough to be regarded seriously. Now I at least have the fps, but a laggy LCD(superb for coding :D) and a heavily saturated line, no chance. I also have some other priorities (like most ppl do), I've quit the proish many years ago being fed up with the continous K/D talks instead of concentrating on smart teamplay, didn't find a team (nor I was looking for one) since, it just doesn't worth the effort. So I just come and waste my time on pubs. Be frank: playing rtcw is a pure waste of time.

To tell the truth, I have no clue why osp pubs died many years ago. My guess is that with time most ppl just didn't care the pubs enough to think, just came to frag and frag and frag. Allstars seems to be a proof of this. Someone was talking bout allstars having a friendly, supportive atmosphere. Wow. Allstars was the 3rd worst server in regards of teamplay after ECGN and Hunhost. Ppl were going for KD, even obj was off lol. TCG was the last nice pub server I've seen.

Stacked teams: nowadays it's again an issue. I have no problems with the so called proish being on one side and the lames on the other. Lames could be smart and trick the narrowminded (so called) proish if they wished. But they dont, they just disconnect and whine after eg. camping beach for 20 mins in the hope docs will come to them :X Lazyness can be done on different levels: some ppl are lazy to even up and they feel strong when defending only and some ppl are just too lazy to climb up to uppr they camp trenches (and fail ofc) and blame it on stacked teams. Being smart and pushy makes the difference of fun or a fading pubscene.

3 min rounds: these are a good example of KD wars. Defenders are busy getting frags instead of concentrating on their defense. This is when the "lames" win against the "proish". Playing for skulls is boring, since it's just spwncamp if done properly. I guess the very short spwntimes on ECGN are there to make spwnkilling a bit more difficult, eg. (in a real proish environment) on village there's no chance for allies once axis pushes them back and it's quite annoying to spwn, die, wait and start it again (simple solution for newbs: don't let it happen!). So If defenders are so stupid, go get them, and make them learn. 3 min rounds can also be beaten. In osp matches (30/40 sec spwn!) it happens many times, ppl disconnecting in a case like that are another good example of the lazyness involved.

No sportmanship: imo about 50% of players show no brains, 50% show no sportmanship. I don't think we can do much about that, it's related to the question why ppl play rtcw. Yes, there are ppl who can not "afford" bad stats. Poor them. The other 50% can have nice games if they're not lazy to do so. In my experience limited lifes are not bad, and are balanced quite well on ECGN (grats to dear inventors!): if one team goes heavily on KD they will lose because of the obj part, if they go too heavy for obj, they will lose the skullage war (as eg. I do usually).

Admining stuff: apart from the mapchanges, ECGN has enough admins imo. One more than needed as I see. All of them do their jobs quite perfectly imo, only MsB has some serious issues in regards of respect to the game and players. She's a bad example of how it should be done. I wont flood the topic here with claims, I think most of us (and other admins) exactly know what I'm talking about. She's just overusing her powers while being ignorant and rude. BUT: I think she also aims for a playable server, so I'm getting used to her. I don't think much can be done by admins about sportsmanship (only their own: like not taking the pz but asking for it and such minor stuff), my advice is just to don't try to deal with it since it usually causes more harm than good. An example: a few days ago shooter dropped in for some 3 mins, made a shuffle and destroyed two balanced and quite well working teams ruining the fun just when we had the hope of some better than avarge games. 50% disconnected within a couple minutes, even if shooter wanted good for us.

Cheatorz: ppl who piont them out should give a proof, a demo or whatever. My old mates if sometimes dropping in overwhelm the whole server (like eg. FRO does) with ease. And they don't cheat, I know. Yes it is possible, just get good equipment, learn and practice. If you come dead tired after a week of 100 hrs wrk, never read a line about aiming, the insides of the q3 engine, don't whine, just look and listen pls.

Thats' it, pls feel free to disagree!

J.

[W0lfy Profile]

The reason for all those things listed is because of one thing: stats. I know it's not going to happen and I'm not pushing for it, but the game really was better before stats. Even among the "top" OSP players that are left a lot of them still play incorrectly because they are overly concerned with stats. When stats were first put into the game it wasn't a problem because most of the top players and teams at the time were mature and professional. But when all those players left the remaining playerbase was neither and the game devolved if you will. That's just the nature of online gaming though and it's best to ignore it and enjoy the game for what it is, not what it was or what it could have been.

[Zabad Profile]

Keeping an eye on one's KD doesn't make one an e-sports professional. I like to push for the obj and don't spawn camp. I don't even look at stats except for KD. It's just a basic measure of wether you are playing incorrectly or not. It's worth mentioning though to the players that constantly rage at me for not diving instantly to revive them everytime. But to the players that don't mind constantly going negative KD, that's fine by me if they want to play that way. I agree with much of what you say. I too enjoy 3 minute caps against players who are always wildly out of position.

[magus]

Pinkname- everyone has a right to their own opinion about how a game should be played, but you should be aware that there is no right way, so you should be as critical of your own assumptions as you are of everyone elses. What name did you play under at Allstars? I had a great many years playing and the admining there, and completely disagree with your analysis of the gameplay there. The community was much tighter than at ECGN, so people knew each others game far better- and the general attitude towards teams was much more leaning towards people enjoying a good closely matched game over just stat pumping. Of course there were a minority who played only for themselves, stacked winning teams- but the proportion of these people was far lower than at ECGN and so the attitude of the admins was that this was unnacceptable/antisocial and they'd be kicked or moved to the appropriate team. I prefer this way of playing, and in the long run I think it keeps the server generally happier.

I personally don't think there are enough admins at ECGN to deal with the amount of eejits there are- yesterday I played for the whole afternoon on the server with 20+ ppl and there was no admin on at all, with some idiot regs rejoining when they skulled and also deliberately tking a teammate and rejoining before they were kicked for neg score. So not only am I on a team with LUCAS and we are down 1 player on top of that, but one of my teammates is focusing his attention on following him around to TK him, and I have no choice but to just get raped by a stacked side, and I can't even voice any discontent because then I am "whining"? I'm sorry, but that's bullshit. Most of the people playing on the server aren't 14yr kids with no excuse for behaving like a child, and I don't see why this shitty behaviour by a minority is tolerated at the expense of the majority of players.

[Zabad Profile]

I also have some other priorities (like most ppl do), I've quit the proish many years ago being fed up with the continous K/D talks instead of concentrating on smart teamplay, didn't find a team (nor I was looking for one) since, it just doesn't worth the effort. So I just come and waste my time on pubs. Be frank: playing rtcw is a pure waste of time.

This isn't directed specifically at you pinkname, but I've seen that same line of reasoning used many times as a justification to troll the players. Yet here they are spending a substantial amount of time in the game. It's blatant hypocrisy. How much more of a waste of time is it to, not even play the game, but to spend so much time in the game 'griefing' like a little kid? Some people may just be enjoying some recreation after a hard day at work, and they would take that away from them. How much more selfish is that? I guess I just don't understand. Maybe some of you can help me shed some light as to what is the motivation behind these mysterious creatures.

[xdeadeye1]

some of you have a need to see your words on the internet.