unlag(shrub) vs antilag(osp/default)?

[pipi]

I just can't hit anything anymore. This is not a bit worse, this is massively worse for me.

Please change the settings like it used to be because this is just unplayable for me.

It feels like I'm playing on the same level like Surrey or OnlyMe (no offence to the persons named).

I agree with what Max said btw.

[Jun1oR]

I would like to add something (if I am not banned again for posting).

You were banned because you repeatedly ignore my warnings and pm's to stop posting that useless comment over and over. That's the problem with you guys. You like to do whatever you want and not listen to the admins then cry when we ban you. You think we are just here to change maps for you.

Here are my thoughts after playing on the server under different conditions this weekend (anti-lag, no lag compensation, unlag)

I think using anti-lag is the worst scenario. All players get minimal benefit while experiencing negative consequences. Registration for high ping as well as lower ping players is not improved much, and head shots do not register properly. Additionally, if you ping high 120+, you will not land shots even while aiming at players. And the game feels weird, you can tell bullet registration is not working properly. It changes the dynamic of shooting and gun battles to some degree.

No lag compensation-- This is ok for players with low ping 0-40. However, at 50+ your shots do not land properly, and the delay is noticeable. Anything over 100 is pretty much unplayable. I was struggling at 98 ping, which is what I ping to ECGN during peak hours. However, this is the only situation in which head shots land properly. Bullet registration feels more similar to original OSP that some players are familiar with; however, I don't think the registration is nearly as good as it is in OSP. I think OSP made some changes in hit boxes and some other items, but I can't really recall the exact differences. Also, Shrub might introduce its own changes as well. Obviously, for people playing on low ping 0-30, they will have a huge advantage over higher ping players. If I had a low, stable ping to ECGN, I would prefer having no lag compensation just due to the ability to land head shots and to have bullet registration work as intended by default. Even with my bad connection and high ping (for someone in US), I can almost convince myself its better because it is easier to kill people and get multi-kills if you are landing head shots. However, I know that its totally unfair to players with high ping and would rather have them be able to play well. In conclusion, I think that removing all lag compensation should definitely not be considered as an option.

Unlag- Best scenario considering what we have to work with. All players will be able to land shots reliably. If you aim at someone, most likely you will be hitting them. Of course its harder for people with higher ping. I find that around 100 ping sometimes feels the worst in terms of registration, but that could just be in my head. Unlag changes the dynamics of shooting and fights compared to having no lag compensation. Head shot registration is acceptable. It's better than with anti-lag but not as good as having no lag compensation. Because we have so many players on the server with diverse pings, I think this is by far the best way to go.

Also, a note about the server or maybe Shrub. I've noticed certain players are very hard to hit bullets on and sometimes they can just stand still and you can't shoot them while they can return fire on you. It could be because they are particularly good with like standing still and shooting while letting the bullet knock back cripple you. (C)Ghost, Bacon when he crouches, and SDI are the most notable examples of this. They will stand in one place and shoot you, and sometimes there is nothing you can do about it. Even with the unlag disabled yesterday I still noticed these situations as well as the poor hit boxes with crouching players.

In summary, I really don't think its a good idea changing unlag to a different system or removing lag compensation altogether. I think some players will find these moments of disbelief or confusion about how they died, how they were killed, or their inability to hit someone regardless of whether lag compensation is running or not. Simply, they are not honest with themselves about their own ability at the current time, the game itself and how it works, and want to blame some external factor such as unlag or 'hacking'

You think there's nothing wrong with unlag from your own personal experiences. You refuse to believe this is actually happening, maybe you are the one not being honest with yourself. I'm telling you that there is an issue. Do you really think I would do all this and embarrass myself over assumptions?

All players are not able to land their shots "reliably", read the thread. I'm not the only one. Look at the poll...

Unlag is going to be enabled again because MAA will not enable antilag for any reason(maybe we can change his mind) but just remember the same way you say I'm crying about unlag being enabled you are doing the same thing about unlag being disabled. I learned plenty this weekend, I can say with 1000% that unlag causes hit registration issues. I've been saying ever since I started playing here.

Also, I don't think its wise to base any judgement of unlag, antilag, no lag compensation on player performances or stats. There's many different factors that can impact someone's performance and stats. It's a pub after all, so if someone wanted to corner camp side upper base for the entire game long, they can do that and will probably have a high KR ratio and a large number of kills. If that same person decided he wants to just play with the team and help revive people , then his stats obviously are going to be completely different. And factor in other things such as distractions, listening to music,alcohol etc. Lot of things can affect people's play, connection stability.

Stats will not factor in this decision. Half the time I'm playing with my kids around me, answering PM's from players, doing admin stuff, sacrificing myself to revive, or even just running into a 3 vs 1 because I don't care as long as I drop one of you. This isn't competition gameplay.

For example, I know since I played 2-3 years mainly on 150 ping with European players and stopped playing much shrub during that time, my playstyle changed a lot and my ability to just aim well and have confidence in that has pretty much disappeared-- as a result of continuous negative feedback while trying to aim on 150 ping. My aim has become really poor and I'd like to improve it. But to do that I think you need practice in a situation where you can reliably land shots and be rewarded for good aim. My point is that player stats or performances should not be the tell-tale sign for either keeping unlag, going to no lag compensation, or going to anti-lag. I think with unlag, at least the skill ceiling can be high and all players will have the best chance of performing to their best ability in terms of basic aiming and fights. I think that unlag provides the best conditions for players with all pings to play well and be rewarded for having good aim, which is a large part of what the game is about due to it being an FPS..

Parcher there is no doubt that you are a good player, most players here think you cheat. I can tell you most players here don't want you here. I can also tell you the guys you think are your friends even complain about you. Maybe you cheat maybe you don't, as long as there is no proof I will always give you the benefit of the doubt but don't come here telling me I suck and I should learn to aim because you think there is no problem other than my ability to aim. The problem I have is not with you killing me or anyone killing me but instead the problem is with when I shoot someone they dont die.

[Jun1oR]

I just can't hit anything anymore. This is not a bit worse, this is massively worse for me.

Please change the settings like it used to be because this is just unplayable for me.

Here's the problem, you say its unplayable for you without unlag and I say its unplayable with unlag. Last time I checked this was a US based server.....

It feels like I'm playing on the same level like Surrey or OnlyMe (no offence to the persons named).

I agree with what Max said btw.

Maybe some of you guys are not as good as you think you are and just have been running around with free unlag armor or whatever you want to call it. Or maybe even some of these "bad players" are not actually that bad...

When unlag is enabled I'll start making demos so you can see the bullshit.

[Jun1oR]

Let me also explain how the late damage or shots while behind walls becomes an issue.

Lets say for example I'm running down the catwalk on beach and I enter the back stairs. Immediately upon entering the back stairs I engage an enemy. Now I am involved in a 1vs1 with that person but because of unlag there might have been some high pinging player just coming out of the transmitter and shooting me in the back but because his game is a half of second behind me I never realize it and end up taking damage from him and the person I am already engaging in the back stair way. Does that sound fair? Most likely I'll never even know that high pinging player was shooting me in the back and I assume the person in the back stairway insta killed me.

[B]

I don't understand how Parcher can come here complaining. He still drops people the same way he has always with his 13.42% hs acc. He realized the change on the server when he was being dropped by us "noobs". He left,then came back owning as usual. I think he cheats. And you're right Junior. 99% of the server would like to see him disappear. Napoleon hasn't been around and honestly it's been nice. Sorry if that's mean.

[Arachnyd_]

It sucks if we are going back to Unlag, because it has been really nice playing on a pub that actually feels like RTCW. Unlagged gameplay robs the game of its feel.

I googled g_antilag and the first thing that popped up was the source code for the feature. Anyone want to take a swing at tweaking it serverside if its even possible?

https://github.com/bibendovsky/rtcw/blo ... ntilag.cpp

[Jun1oR]

It sucks if we are going back to Unlag, because it has been really nice playing on a pub that actually feels like RTCW. Unlagged gameplay robs the game of its feel.

I googled g_antilag and the first thing that popped up was the source code for the feature. Anyone want to take a swing at tweaking it serverside if its even possible?

https://github.com/bibendovsky/rtcw/blo ... ntilag.cpp

I don't understand why we all haven't moved to MAA version of rtcw. It's really really nice even has built in voice comms I think. Plus that way MAA can make the necessary updates.

[xdeadeye1]

I wonder if the flame thrower glitches still with the new changes..??

[B]

I wonder if the flame thrower glitches still with the new changes..??

Good question

[Hayling]

Vote's now a tie...

[pixi]

I don't know... I have an average of 50 ping, and it's no coincidence that all of my shots are registering a lot more in the past 2-3 days, also the length of time unlag has been off.

I don't want to lose all of our high-pingers, but I personally do better with it off, so I'm going to vote off. :/ But either way works for me, I guess.

[pixi]

Let me also explain how the late damage or shots while behind walls becomes an issue.

Lets say for example I'm running down the catwalk on beach and I enter the back stairs. Immediately upon entering the back stairs I engage an enemy. Now I am involved in a 1vs1 with that person but because of unlag there might have been some high pinging player just coming out of the transmitter and shooting me in the back but because his game is a half of second behind me I never realize it and end up taking damage from him and the person I am already engaging in the back stair way. Does that sound fair? Most likely I'll never even know that high pinging player was shooting me in the back and I assume the person in the back stairway insta killed me.

This is an interesting thought. Never thought about this.

[Tragic]

I've been on ECG the last few days and to be honest, I like it with anti-lag on.

Here's a few reasons why, and yes I have an average ping of 40-50.

1. Accuracy seems to be better, although it seems to "take longer" to kill someone however, it feels as if my shots are actually landing now on all these people who I could never hit before. Examples of people I couldn't hit "destiny, villain, glitch, max, parcher" etc. Basically anyone with a 98+ ping.

2. No longer am I being killed as I duck for cover behind a door, or a wall. Was rather annoying.

3. Not sure why Max, Parcher, or PiPi are bitching when looking at the stats page... they're actually playing better accuracy/hs wise, yet are here denying it?

All in all, it is a change after all and it's something ALL of us would have to adapt too. I for one like the idea, and it's change. Who doesn't like change?

[pingrage]



<Jun1oR> for example the other day, b007y was kneeling in a doorway not moving at all and I fired alomst 10 shots into his back and he just turned around and killed me with ease. Server reported he had 127hp remaining
<Jun1oR> I asked him if he took any damage and he replied no

Quick question/s (dont ban me i just wanted to ask a simple question).

1. Have you re-enacted the above scenario since unlag has been turned off?
2. Boo7y has/had been lagging lately (glitch mentioned it on the server the other day) could of contributed to the above.
3. Crouch hitboxes in rtcw has always been an issue. If someone knows the command to show them (like etpro - https://enemyterritorytips.wordpress.co ... ip-report/)

I would like to demonstrate the hitboxes issue raised on point 3

Apologies for posting again i just wanted to clear some of the findings/issues raised.

P.S there is a source file in this DL for Shrubmod 3-1-1b http://wolfenstein4ever.de/index.php/do ... mod-3-1-1b

Last edited by pingrage on Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

[pixi]

I have also been having that same issue with booty (and parcher several times) where I have fired into their backs several shots before and not had a single one register, and suddenly I'm dead with them having full HP. Haven't been able to tell if this has changed since unlag, but I am hoping so. It's almost as if I should have a higher ping to play better and kill more people, and yet that makes no sense. All I know is things have been better since the antilag has been on and unlag off, YET the one person I've noticed the biggest difference with in a one-on-one is now Nav can completely own me without me getting a single hit on him in the last few days, and I'm not sure where that came from. Otherwise booty and parcher seem to be about the same, but overall with the majority of the average player, I can now land more shots (again, with an average of a 50 ping). I can kill Glitch a lot easier now though, and he lags a lot. It's very confusing.

I know that yesterday with Parcher, it seemed worse than it did a few days ago. I know yesterday we would have a 3 v 1 battle against him SEVERAL times (it was usually me, Shootz, and Arach shooting just him) and all 3 of us were suddenly dead with him still having full HP. I don't know. Still very fishy to me. Hard to tell with him if unlag is better or worse.