do you believe in ghosts?
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- Ralph Wiggum
by Ralph Wiggum » Thu Jul 17, 2003 3:50 am
Anyone who professes atheism is just as bad as a religious fanatic. What happens when you die? I don't know, you don't know. The point is we (i.e. non-religious types) have no idea. Atheism is just another theism. You can claim science tells you god doesn't exist, but you really have no proof one way or the other. The only answer for someone in your shoes is agnosticism.
But arguing about what happens when we die is not the same thing as arguing about the existence of god. God could exist, and yet it could still be game over when you die. Or you might be reincarnated, or you might dream, or you might just do the whole thing over again just like you did before. None of those scenarios would prove or disprove the existence of god.
But arguing about what happens when we die is not the same thing as arguing about the existence of god. God could exist, and yet it could still be game over when you die. Or you might be reincarnated, or you might dream, or you might just do the whole thing over again just like you did before. None of those scenarios would prove or disprove the existence of god.
- {NNC}Wraith
by {NNC}Wraith » Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:18 am
I can't Prove I am right, I know but believing in a afterlife is, after all, the best choice. When you are atheist and you die, You will never know if you are right, only if you are wrong and if you belive in life after death you will never know if you where wrong, only if you are right... I can link you to great book about After life theory related to quantum physics if you like Zog 
- Rule of Wrist
by Rule of Wrist » Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:33 am
Originally posted by Ralph Wiggum
Anyone who professes atheism is just as bad as a religious fanatic. What happens when you die? I don't know, you don't know. The point is we (i.e. non-religious types) have no idea. Atheism is just another theism. You can claim science tells you god doesn't exist, but you really have no proof one way or the other. The only answer for someone in your shoes is agnosticism.
Thank you, Ralph, I forgot what that was called... I could only remember atheism as the term for someone who doesn't really believe in everything...
I don't have a problem with anybody who wants to believe in something. What I do have a problem with is you trying to make ME believe that same thing, and then if I don't, I'm a bad person. This is inherent in most organized religions, hence my dislike for these religions and the people who are most vociferous in supporting them...
Like Musashi, you question us non-believers like we are pitiable, well I don't want any pity from you or anybody (at least about that)...
- Mighty Mazz
by Mighty Mazz » Thu Jul 17, 2003 12:39 pm
Originally posted by Rule of Wrist
Like Musashi, you question us non-believers like we are pitiable, well I don't want any pity from you or anybody (at least about that)...
Hey man, I'm not judging anyone here. I could care less if you worship a 5 headed cell phone monster named BURT.
Forget all this relegion talk as the only thing debating this has ever led to is bloody thousand year wars.
It's just a fact that theres more evidence that would suggest the existence of some supernatural/spectral beings (ie ghosts) then there is against them.
Now if you'll all excuse me its 12 o'clock time for the daily txt messaging to the all mighty BURT. All hail BURT! Long live the low low cost of long distance calls.
- Rule of Wrist
by Rule of Wrist » Thu Jul 17, 2003 1:02 pm
Originally posted by Musashi X
Hey man, I'm not judging anyone here. I could care less if you worship a 5 headed cell phone monster named BURT.
Forget all this relegion talk as the only thing debating this has ever led to is bloody thousand year wars.
No worries then...
And how did you know about BURT? I thought only I could hear his voice... 
by Lord ZOG » Thu Jul 17, 2003 2:02 pm
Originally posted by Musashi X
It's just a fact that theres more evidence that would suggest the existence of some supernatural/spectral beings (ie ghosts) then there is against them.
As a high school teacher once said to me; Surely, you jest.
I can choose to hide behind fantasy to make my miserable life better, or I can face the facts, accept reality and enjoy what I have now, and make the world a better place for me AND my kids and anyone else who will have to live here when I'm gone.
Seems to me beliving in 'life-after-death" is too-often used as an excuse by many to be complete and utter jack-asses during their life.
I could go on and on about people's beliefs, or their lack of compassion for their fellow human beings (often induced by their religion), but it's a battle that's been waged for years, that will continue to be waged for years to come.
In my mind, they should abolish anything that convinces people that their present day existances are pointless because of some fairy-tale "after-life".
Lord ZOG
"Well hello Mister Fancypants. Well, I've got news for you pal, you ain't leadin' but two things: Jack and shit... and Jack just left town."
"Well hello Mister Fancypants. Well, I've got news for you pal, you ain't leadin' but two things: Jack and shit... and Jack just left town."
- Keekanoo
by Keekanoo » Thu Jul 17, 2003 2:50 pm
Pascal's Wager: (Pascal Blaize, French philosopher and mathematician 1623-1662)
If I believe God exists and He does, then when I die, having fulfilled a life of serving God, He will recognize my labours and embrace me in Heaven.
If I don't believe in God and He does exist, then I will be renounced from Heaven and cast eternally to Hell.
If I believe in God and he doesn't exist, I've lost nothing but gained living a life of good will to others.
Generally a first-year philosophy problem for University students. Pascals logic is flawed in several ways. First, what type of God does one believe in? This leads to the 2nd problem, what kind of acts of 'goodness' does one perpetuate while alive to fullfill the God in question? Third, ultimately the ringer against this logic, the act of believing in a state of existance that isn't THIS state of existance takes one OUT of existance.
It's all very nice helping little old ladies across the street and cutting great swaths through the Heathen population around the globe in the name of this or that God, but it drastically minimizes the ability of self to be self-governing. It's kind of like getting on a very fast train where you don't even have the ability to be a conductor.
As for ghost stories, I'm not much of a believer. I've played larks on people (ouiji boards and such) and seen how easily people are fooled. Many people have a deep fear of anything they can't explain that seems to have power over them--and are very quick to attach all manner of powers and abilities to the unknown.
However, with that said, I know a place near to where I live that will make a believer of the supernatural of anyone here. I'd go on about it, but it's just a spooky place with stories attached. Anyone can make them up. I've lived it and know it to be true. I've taken people there who are hard-core non-believers and they insisted, white-faced and in shock, that I remove them from the area as quickly as possible.
Keek.
If I believe God exists and He does, then when I die, having fulfilled a life of serving God, He will recognize my labours and embrace me in Heaven.
If I don't believe in God and He does exist, then I will be renounced from Heaven and cast eternally to Hell.
If I believe in God and he doesn't exist, I've lost nothing but gained living a life of good will to others.
Generally a first-year philosophy problem for University students. Pascals logic is flawed in several ways. First, what type of God does one believe in? This leads to the 2nd problem, what kind of acts of 'goodness' does one perpetuate while alive to fullfill the God in question? Third, ultimately the ringer against this logic, the act of believing in a state of existance that isn't THIS state of existance takes one OUT of existance.
It's all very nice helping little old ladies across the street and cutting great swaths through the Heathen population around the globe in the name of this or that God, but it drastically minimizes the ability of self to be self-governing. It's kind of like getting on a very fast train where you don't even have the ability to be a conductor.
As for ghost stories, I'm not much of a believer. I've played larks on people (ouiji boards and such) and seen how easily people are fooled. Many people have a deep fear of anything they can't explain that seems to have power over them--and are very quick to attach all manner of powers and abilities to the unknown.
However, with that said, I know a place near to where I live that will make a believer of the supernatural of anyone here. I'd go on about it, but it's just a spooky place with stories attached. Anyone can make them up. I've lived it and know it to be true. I've taken people there who are hard-core non-believers and they insisted, white-faced and in shock, that I remove them from the area as quickly as possible.
Keek.
- Mighty Mazz
by Mighty Mazz » Thu Jul 17, 2003 3:22 pm
Originally posted by S.S. Lord ZOG
Seems to me beliving in 'life-after-death" is too-often used as an excuse by many to be complete and utter jack-asses during their life.
I could go on and on about people's beliefs, or their lack of compassion for their fellow human beings (often induced by their religion), but it's a battle that's been waged for years, that will continue to be waged for years to come.
In my mind, they should abolish anything that convinces people that their present day existances are pointless because of some fairy-tale "after-life".
As I often say to people, "What are you high?"
I couldn't disagree with you more. If anything beleiving in life after death/ whatever religion it is, it instills a sense of consequence for ones actions. Therefore people are much less likely to run around "being asses" and causing havoc. With the exception of a few select religions.
One of the main arguments against any religion is that they were created solely for keeping people in line. And basically preventing anarchy.
I also dont see how religion conflicts with living life to the fullest every day. Its not like were just sitting around waiting to die. I for one try to live by the "live today as if it were your last day on earth"
It seems to me that your totally biased for some reason. I for one grew up in a set church and as i grew up I said why am I even a member . And basically I did a lot of research on my own to see what I truly beleived and not just be force fed some beleifs. I know a lot of people who have gone through the religious discovery thing and all come out of it with something different.
by Lord ZOG » Thu Jul 17, 2003 3:35 pm
Originally posted by Musashi X
As I often say to people, "What are you high?"
I couldn't disagree with you more. If anything beleiving in life after death/ whatever religion it is, it instills a sense of consequence for ones actions. Therefore people are much less likely to run around "being asses" and causing havoc. With the exception of a few select religions.
One of the main arguments against any religion is that they were created solely for keeping people in line. And basically preventing anarchy.
I also dont see how religion conflicts with living life to the fullest every day. Its not like were just sitting around waiting to die. I for one try to live by the "live today as if it were your last day on earth"
It seems to me that your totally biased for some reason. I for one grew up in a set church and as i grew up I said why am I even a member . And basically I did a lot of research on my own to see what I truly beleived and not just be force fed some beleifs. I know a lot of people who have gone through the religious discovery thing and all come out of it with something different.
For a person who implies that religion encourages compassion, you're a perfect example of someone who preaches and believes one thing, yet practices another.
See you in Hell, my friend.
Lord ZOG
"Well hello Mister Fancypants. Well, I've got news for you pal, you ain't leadin' but two things: Jack and shit... and Jack just left town."
"Well hello Mister Fancypants. Well, I've got news for you pal, you ain't leadin' but two things: Jack and shit... and Jack just left town."
- Mighty Mazz
by Mighty Mazz » Thu Jul 17, 2003 5:04 pm
Originally posted by S.S. Lord ZOG
For a person who implies that religion encourages compassion, you're a perfect example of someone who preaches and believes one thing, yet practices another.
See you in Hell, my friend.
I'll save you a seat.
You obviously didnt get my point but thats OK take it however you want it. I was simply saying that what you stated about religion promoting anti humane behavior couldn't be farther from the truth. Sure there are a few cases where religion gets distorted, case in point Al Quadi or however its spelled, but that is not the majority.
Secondly I'm not preaching anything just stating my opinions on religion as a whole. Also you don't know what I beleive in or how I "practice" it so don't pretend to
Im sorry if I came across as an asshole as that was not my intention. Rather I was just trying to have an intelligent conversation about the topic. Did it suddenly turn into an argument? Cause if so I didnt know.
I don't pretend to know everything, nor do I. What I do know is when people become overly defensive and hostile. As I said before I don't judge anyone or think I'm better then everyone.
There just my opinions.
"Let's agree to disagree"
- Folic_Acid
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by Folic_Acid » Thu Jul 17, 2003 5:08 pm
Looks like this has turned more into a question of "Do you believe in God" vs. one about ghosts, so let me throw my $.02 in the pot.
Do I believe in God? Yep. Why, you ask? Well, because I can't explain the world and the universe any other way. I can't sit and look at a sunset, or stroll through the Appalachians in the fall, or examine the workings of the human body, and think that it could possibly happen by accident.
I had a friend use an example with me recently - if someone were to describe a really complex MMOG (let's use the example of Star Wars Galaxies) to me, then say "I believe that the servers that are hosting this game actually formed themselves from constituent minerals and parts over the course of several years, and that SWG basically just fell into place by virtue of the proper conditions existing on those servers that were formed. And now, we have a fun game that lots of people around the world play." I would say that this scenario is preposterous. But, plenty of folks believe that our universe came to be in just such a fashion, sans God.
That being said, it's certainly not my place to judge or criticise the beliefs of others. Rather, I respect my friends here, and am certainly happy to play alongside you all. Just because we hold different beliefs does not mean one should beat the other over the head with the Bible, Quran, or any other text. As a christian, I'm convinced that I should "love the Lord with all [my] heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love [my] neighbor as [my]self." That's the belief that drives me - love of God and fellow man. In fact (not that I want to toot my own horn), my wife and I recently went on a missions trip to the Philippines, paid with our own money, not to preach or anything, but to provide free medical care to poor Filipinos. Most christians that I know are the same - honest, hardworking, non-judgmental, friendly folks.
So, IMHO, judging "religion" as non-tolerant is erroneous. Many religions can be intolerant, and many people who claim to hold to a particular belief can, in fact, just not practice tolerance. Personally, I don't want to judge people who live and believe differently than I do. Instead, I try to be a living example of what I believe.
Do I believe in heaven, hell, and so on? Yep. Again, it's not my place to pressure anyone into changing their beliefs. I'd rather practice what I preach (not literally preach - you know what I mean), and convince others of the veracity of my belief through action, rather than berating, judging, and belittling.
But, that's just me. Hope this is somehow helpful.
-F
Do I believe in God? Yep. Why, you ask? Well, because I can't explain the world and the universe any other way. I can't sit and look at a sunset, or stroll through the Appalachians in the fall, or examine the workings of the human body, and think that it could possibly happen by accident.
I had a friend use an example with me recently - if someone were to describe a really complex MMOG (let's use the example of Star Wars Galaxies) to me, then say "I believe that the servers that are hosting this game actually formed themselves from constituent minerals and parts over the course of several years, and that SWG basically just fell into place by virtue of the proper conditions existing on those servers that were formed. And now, we have a fun game that lots of people around the world play." I would say that this scenario is preposterous. But, plenty of folks believe that our universe came to be in just such a fashion, sans God.
That being said, it's certainly not my place to judge or criticise the beliefs of others. Rather, I respect my friends here, and am certainly happy to play alongside you all. Just because we hold different beliefs does not mean one should beat the other over the head with the Bible, Quran, or any other text. As a christian, I'm convinced that I should "love the Lord with all [my] heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love [my] neighbor as [my]self." That's the belief that drives me - love of God and fellow man. In fact (not that I want to toot my own horn), my wife and I recently went on a missions trip to the Philippines, paid with our own money, not to preach or anything, but to provide free medical care to poor Filipinos. Most christians that I know are the same - honest, hardworking, non-judgmental, friendly folks.
So, IMHO, judging "religion" as non-tolerant is erroneous. Many religions can be intolerant, and many people who claim to hold to a particular belief can, in fact, just not practice tolerance. Personally, I don't want to judge people who live and believe differently than I do. Instead, I try to be a living example of what I believe.
Do I believe in heaven, hell, and so on? Yep. Again, it's not my place to pressure anyone into changing their beliefs. I'd rather practice what I preach (not literally preach - you know what I mean), and convince others of the veracity of my belief through action, rather than berating, judging, and belittling.
But, that's just me. Hope this is somehow helpful.
-F
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