Thu Jul 17, 2003 5:39 pm
Amen Folic.
And are you on acid Amaryl?
And are you on acid Amaryl?
Thu Jul 17, 2003 6:38 pm
edogg's 2 cents:
God: yes
devil: yes
heaven: yes
hell: yes
angels: yes
ghosts: yes
aliens: maybe (i like the "waste of space" theory)
big foot: no
loch ness monster: no
psychics: no
The reason I am able to say there is a God and an after life, is because I have FAITH. Science merely consists of rules for the physical world. Faith is for the things in life that you cannot necessarily see, touch, smell, taste, or hear... but somehow still know they exist. Faith doesent require proof. Science does.
there has to be a reason why religion and the belief in a higher being/beings has been the most important issue throughout human history...
God: yes
devil: yes
heaven: yes
hell: yes
angels: yes
ghosts: yes
aliens: maybe (i like the "waste of space" theory)
big foot: no
loch ness monster: no
psychics: no
The reason I am able to say there is a God and an after life, is because I have FAITH. Science merely consists of rules for the physical world. Faith is for the things in life that you cannot necessarily see, touch, smell, taste, or hear... but somehow still know they exist. Faith doesent require proof. Science does.
there has to be a reason why religion and the belief in a higher being/beings has been the most important issue throughout human history...
Thu Jul 17, 2003 7:35 pm
BLASPHEMY!!
THE MIGHTY AVATAR IS NOT A "5 headed cell phone monster"!! YOUR PUNY 'MINDS' CANNOT EVEN CONCEIVE OF THE GRANDEUR THAT IS HIS BEING!!:mad:
THE MIGHTY AVATAR IS NOT A "5 headed cell phone monster"!! YOUR PUNY 'MINDS' CANNOT EVEN CONCEIVE OF THE GRANDEUR THAT IS HIS BEING!!:mad:
Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:13 pm
Musashi said..... " I was simply saying that what you stated about religion promoting anti humane behavior couldn't be farther from the truth. Sure there are a few cases where religion gets distorted, case in point Al Quadi or however its spelled, but that is not the majority"
Just a few pointers, Musashi, not an attack. First of all, Al Quadi is a fundementalist branch which was fostered in it's infancy some 15 years ago by the United States Gov't in the hopes of promoting a clash between Muslims and Hinduists in the middle east. The movement was given piles of money and recieved significant terrorists trainings/weapons/munitions from the U.S. gov't. A fact largely ignored in the popular press of the United States.
Unfortunately their bastard child got a bit too big for it's britches. We all know how that went.
2ndly, from an Al Quidan's point of view, they are fighting the jihad righteous holy war against the infidels, vis-a-vis, you and I. So to speak. In their minds, they are the ones on 'Gods' side, not you or I.
They have as much conviction about that, probably more, than you do that you are on the 'right' side of God.
All of which points out the inherant difficulty in belief systems. You can make up anything you want and believe in anything anyone else thought up as much as you want. At what point do you stop to consider that all of it is very likely a pack of steepled cards?
Give me a God that has no commandments, no text, no rituals, no demands--and then I'll believe.
Just a few pointers, Musashi, not an attack. First of all, Al Quadi is a fundementalist branch which was fostered in it's infancy some 15 years ago by the United States Gov't in the hopes of promoting a clash between Muslims and Hinduists in the middle east. The movement was given piles of money and recieved significant terrorists trainings/weapons/munitions from the U.S. gov't. A fact largely ignored in the popular press of the United States.
Unfortunately their bastard child got a bit too big for it's britches. We all know how that went.
2ndly, from an Al Quidan's point of view, they are fighting the jihad righteous holy war against the infidels, vis-a-vis, you and I. So to speak. In their minds, they are the ones on 'Gods' side, not you or I.
They have as much conviction about that, probably more, than you do that you are on the 'right' side of God.
All of which points out the inherant difficulty in belief systems. You can make up anything you want and believe in anything anyone else thought up as much as you want. At what point do you stop to consider that all of it is very likely a pack of steepled cards?
Give me a God that has no commandments, no text, no rituals, no demands--and then I'll believe.
Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:33 pm
An old but interesting statement went like this...
"What is the difference between good and evil?"
"Choice of cause."
"What is the difference between good and evil?"
"Choice of cause."
Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:48 pm
keekanoo said:
Give me a God that has no commandments, no text, no rituals, no demands--and then I'll believe. end quote.
dont take this as an attack, but more like an observation.
Since you dont want any rules or demands put on yourself, it seems that you want to be your own god so to speak. the whole idea about the commandments and following a god's rules is about returning the favor to a god who is creator and has given life to his people.
when you say "the only God ill believe in, is one who doesnt have any rules" , it sounds very selfish. im not trying to make you believe in a god, i just think your reasoning for not believing in one is silly. Maybe i didnt understand thoroughly or didnt read your post right?
Give me a God that has no commandments, no text, no rituals, no demands--and then I'll believe. end quote.
dont take this as an attack, but more like an observation.
Since you dont want any rules or demands put on yourself, it seems that you want to be your own god so to speak. the whole idea about the commandments and following a god's rules is about returning the favor to a god who is creator and has given life to his people.
when you say "the only God ill believe in, is one who doesnt have any rules" , it sounds very selfish. im not trying to make you believe in a god, i just think your reasoning for not believing in one is silly. Maybe i didnt understand thoroughly or didnt read your post right?
Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:51 pm
I beleive in ghosts... i would post some relgious shit here like everyone else has, but theres a problem, i have never been in a church for anything except a wedding or funeral(even then i dont listen to what the preacher guy says) and i havent even read a senetence in the bible. So without making myself look more of an idiot ill leave it at that.
Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:52 pm
Yeah Keekano I agree with what you said.
I was just using the orginization of Al Quadi as an example of how some religious beleifs or, distortions of, can be anti humane so to speak. Another example would be Satanists watever that is I imagine its pretty bad lol. Any religion that calls for killing should be reexamined. Most of these are just distortions of an original beleif system.
A positive example of a decent "non intrusive" religion would be budhism. They would rather light themselves on fire then kill. Now thats bad ass.
Free Tibet!
I was just using the orginization of Al Quadi as an example of how some religious beleifs or, distortions of, can be anti humane so to speak. Another example would be Satanists watever that is I imagine its pretty bad lol. Any religion that calls for killing should be reexamined. Most of these are just distortions of an original beleif system.
A positive example of a decent "non intrusive" religion would be budhism. They would rather light themselves on fire then kill. Now thats bad ass.
Free Tibet!
Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:55 pm
Interesting what everyone has to say about this...
Here is my theory of ghosts:
Ghost are purely scientific!
I'll prove my point!
Ghosts are nothing other than trapped memories in a time rip...
You know how youve seen ghost programs on how they show up and do the same thing over and over again, thats them stuck in that period of time! So ghosts are nothing but aparations stuck in time !
Here is my theory of ghosts:
Ghost are purely scientific!
I'll prove my point!
Ghosts are nothing other than trapped memories in a time rip...
You know how youve seen ghost programs on how they show up and do the same thing over and over again, thats them stuck in that period of time! So ghosts are nothing but aparations stuck in time !
Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:14 pm
my theory on ghosts(especially ones involved in unexpected and violent deaths):
Somehow they are trapped on earth for some reason, whether it was by choice or whatever. I think ghosts and hauntings happen because they have unfinished business. Maybe there was controversy over their death, and they wanted to let the truth be known of what really happened. Another possibility is that they may have had a message they wanted to give to a loved one, because they didnt get a chance to do it before they died.
the really bad people, like serial killers or rapists for example, just choose to stay on earth because they are too ashamed or afraid to face God.
this probably sounds really silly to alot of you, buts that what made sense to me.
Somehow they are trapped on earth for some reason, whether it was by choice or whatever. I think ghosts and hauntings happen because they have unfinished business. Maybe there was controversy over their death, and they wanted to let the truth be known of what really happened. Another possibility is that they may have had a message they wanted to give to a loved one, because they didnt get a chance to do it before they died.
the really bad people, like serial killers or rapists for example, just choose to stay on earth because they are too ashamed or afraid to face God.
this probably sounds really silly to alot of you, buts that what made sense to me.
Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:57 pm
I was about to post something similar Edogg, thats how i think of ghosts also.
Jeffro's theory isnt too bad either, like in gettysburg there are supposivly ghosts in the battlefield and u can hear them yelling orders and stuff, even though ive been there many times and never heard or seen anything, even at night. Being stuck in a time rip would explain it if the stories are true
Jeffro's theory isnt too bad either, like in gettysburg there are supposivly ghosts in the battlefield and u can hear them yelling orders and stuff, even though ive been there many times and never heard or seen anything, even at night. Being stuck in a time rip would explain it if the stories are true
Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:46 pm
Budhism at a glance appears wonderful. Lethargically happy like a content bear eating honey. Unfortunately, I don't at all buy the leading tennet of this religion, namely that you are 'paying' for what 'you' did in 'previous' lives. And that what you do in this life will affect your next.
Recently there was a brutal rape and murder of an 5 yr old girl in the city next to mine. I brought this up to a Budhist friend of mine and she shrugged and said, 'Obviously this child did something very bad in her previous life'. I'm sorry. That's complete and absolute bullshit. This concept that the 'kid had it coming to her' not only minimizes the terrible suffering and loss of the child, AND her family AND the good folk near-by, but also almost justifies the rapist/murderer. Like he's doing a good deed. She went on to say he'll have a very bad life next time around.
Musashi--can you name ONE religion that hasn't spawned massive wars? Or massive injustices? Not to say that I think religion = God. Which it doesn't, imo. Not that I believe in God either.
Recently there was a brutal rape and murder of an 5 yr old girl in the city next to mine. I brought this up to a Budhist friend of mine and she shrugged and said, 'Obviously this child did something very bad in her previous life'. I'm sorry. That's complete and absolute bullshit. This concept that the 'kid had it coming to her' not only minimizes the terrible suffering and loss of the child, AND her family AND the good folk near-by, but also almost justifies the rapist/murderer. Like he's doing a good deed. She went on to say he'll have a very bad life next time around.
Musashi--can you name ONE religion that hasn't spawned massive wars? Or massive injustices? Not to say that I think religion = God. Which it doesn't, imo. Not that I believe in God either.
Sat Jul 19, 2003 2:49 pm
OK hopefully I can put this to rest, I dont think everyone has grasped what I've tried to say. As for your problems with buddhism keekano there are many sects of buddhism, any and all religions can and have been corupted/misinterpeted by my views. The core teaching of buddhism and christianity is unconditional love for all things. Religion differs from person to person and to label it as detrimental to society is I feel ignorant. Just because some people use dictionarys to beat people to death doesnt mean the dictionaries are responsible.
But on to the main point of this post, I thought I'd post something interesting about theology and faith in general here by someone who I feel is very wise but you be the judge.
Q: "Faith is important in Buddhism, and in Zen there are various objects of faith - zazen, or the kesa, or the master. But what is faith?"
A: "Whatever you like. Each person is diffrent. The object of faith differs for each individual. Each person must know and recognize for himself or herself what is his or her object of faith. You must believe in whatever impresses you most deeply. I cannot say, I cannot decide objectively. This is very important. In almost all religions you are told that you have to believe this or that, or in God or Buddha. I do not agree. You have to find for yourself, in yourself. The teacher can lead you to the river's edge but cannot drink in your place, or compel you to drink either. That is a subjective problem."
"So I answer, whatever you like. The most important thing is to believe. Believe in what is highest, ultimate. What is true? It is for the wisdom of the spirit to decide."
"God, Buddha, the Cross . . . People usually believe according to their genes, their heredity, education, family environment, physical habits. But in the end . . .
"The dog follows its master, it forgets everything else when it sees its master. Its brain changes; it is faithful, it believes in its master. True, deep love is important in faith."
"In the end, I cannot decide your faith for you. You must decide yourself. It is not just a question of form. I happen to be a Zen monk . . . . . You must find the answer by yourself."
Taisen Deshimaru, Soto Zen monk.
Excerpt from "Questions to a Zen Master"
I left out some of the more technical stuff in the last paragraph.
Anyone who is interested in theology I recommend picking up this book. It doesn't preach a particular religion and for those that don't know Zen is not really a religion rather meditation on truth or "The Middle Way". It can be usefull for those "on the fence."
Don't turn this into a Theology debat tho or I can go on forever.
But on to the main point of this post, I thought I'd post something interesting about theology and faith in general here by someone who I feel is very wise but you be the judge.
Q: "Faith is important in Buddhism, and in Zen there are various objects of faith - zazen, or the kesa, or the master. But what is faith?"
A: "Whatever you like. Each person is diffrent. The object of faith differs for each individual. Each person must know and recognize for himself or herself what is his or her object of faith. You must believe in whatever impresses you most deeply. I cannot say, I cannot decide objectively. This is very important. In almost all religions you are told that you have to believe this or that, or in God or Buddha. I do not agree. You have to find for yourself, in yourself. The teacher can lead you to the river's edge but cannot drink in your place, or compel you to drink either. That is a subjective problem."
"So I answer, whatever you like. The most important thing is to believe. Believe in what is highest, ultimate. What is true? It is for the wisdom of the spirit to decide."
"God, Buddha, the Cross . . . People usually believe according to their genes, their heredity, education, family environment, physical habits. But in the end . . .
"The dog follows its master, it forgets everything else when it sees its master. Its brain changes; it is faithful, it believes in its master. True, deep love is important in faith."
"In the end, I cannot decide your faith for you. You must decide yourself. It is not just a question of form. I happen to be a Zen monk . . . . . You must find the answer by yourself."
Taisen Deshimaru, Soto Zen monk.
Excerpt from "Questions to a Zen Master"
I left out some of the more technical stuff in the last paragraph.
Anyone who is interested in theology I recommend picking up this book. It doesn't preach a particular religion and for those that don't know Zen is not really a religion rather meditation on truth or "The Middle Way". It can be usefull for those "on the fence."
Don't turn this into a Theology debat tho or I can go on forever.
Sat Jul 19, 2003 3:34 pm
Originally posted by Keekanoo
Musashi--can you name ONE religion that hasn't spawned massive wars? Or massive injustices? Not to say that I think religion = God. Which it doesn't, imo. Not that I believe in God either.
While I'm on a tear here...
Can you name ONE religion that hasn't? Sure.
If you can find where it says in the Koran to drive 2 planes into the twin towers killing thousands then I might agree with you. This ultimately fueled the war. But was Islam responsible for this? I say no rather it was a group of people who interpeted it differently mainly to suit there needs.
Another example is the Crusades. Was this war really about religion? Again I say no. I did a huge report on the entirety of the crusades (never again) and I found that the main reason for it was materialistic in nature, looting, plundering and territory and all that good stuff. Sure the leaders went on about reclaiming the homeland from the heathens but was that really the main reason. They just pinned this holy tag on the war to somehow justify what they were doing.
Core doctrines of many religions do not call for war in fact its just the opposite. The sad fact is that people will corupt anything to get what they want. Religions do not start wars people start wars.
Sat Jul 19, 2003 3:37 pm
Originally posted by NightStalker453
Hmm if u can go on forever u will never get done typing, therefore we wont have to read ur long ass posts anymore... time to make this a theology debate. Anyone wanna help?
Who said you had to read it.
Genious.
