What real guns do you own?

by **JimmyTango** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 7:27 am

Originally posted by Doug the Unforgiven

And just so there's no misunderstanding:
There's not a damn moral thing wrong with owning firearms.
Period.

Guns are the only thing purposely made for killing that are legal. Knives, specificly made for killing, are banned. Yet guns, far deadlier, are not.

It is sad that people think they have the right to own one.

It is sadder that people think they are responsible enough to carry one.

by **JimmyTango** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 7:35 am

Originally posted by Chacal
Problem is, your Constitution was written more than 200 years ago, at a time the British tried to prevent the citizens from having weapons (which made sense, there was a rebellion going on).

No document dealing with practicalities can stay valid after 200 years. It has to be updated, but some people will prevent this because it could change their habits or privileges.

It's exactly the same with conditions unions got for their members during times of healthy economy, they have to be modified after a few years but the unions will try to prevent it.

Although I was a gun buff myself, I never adhered to the much repeated (but wrong) argument that "it's not the gun that kills, it's the killer". Anybody saying that hasn't been in the real world for a while. The gun provides opportunity, an easy way to kill and get away with it. Most assassins are just lazy.

In the school I work in, there are often fistfights between stupid male teens. If they had guns, they would shoot each other.

Add that to the extreme amount of graphical violence that surrounds you everyday, and you get the result you can see right now.

You are right, sadly, it will fall on deaf ears.

by **Casus** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 8:35 am

Sig 228 9MM.

by **Drax** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 8:35 am

i aggree with jimmytango guns are far more deadly that knives and such.

by **Doug the Unforgiven** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:01 am

First off, it is illegal in EVERY part of the US for teens to have guns at school.

Second, knives are illegal? Should I be arrested for carrying a Swiss Army knife? Should I be arrested for having a knife that looks like it belongs to a Klingon?

And third, if NO ONE is responsible enough to carry a gun, then why do we give police or security personnel a pass?

I reject vehemently the notion that just because I have a firearm that I have an unstoppable urge to kill.

When guns are made illegal, only criminals will have them (like in many countries where they are illegal, like Australia and Britain).

Chacal, I don't agree with you, but at least you try to make
your point in a civil manner, without implying that we are all just 'sad.'

It's funny how the same people who whine all the time about 'stupid Americans' not realizing their rights are being stripped are the same people who insist that this right be stripped without debate, and if you don't think their way you must be an idiot. So do we want to lose our rights or not? Some of you really need to try to be consistent.

example:
Americans are stupid for giving up their rights.
Americans are stupid for giving up their rights.
Americans are stupid for giving up their rights.
Oh, Americans should give up that right because I don't agree with it.

See?

by **Doug the Unforgiven** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:06 am

Originally posted by Drax
i aggree with jimmytango guns are far more deadly that knives and such.

So are cars and a lot of other things. Let's just ban everything; then we can all just stand motionless in one place trying to figure out how to ban disease so that we may continue to stand around safely doing nothing.

by **JimmyTango** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:36 am

Originally posted by Doug the Unforgiven
So are cars and a lot of other things. Let's just ban everything; then we can all just stand motionless in one place trying to figure out how to ban disease so that we may continue to stand around safely doing nothing.

I have always hated this excuse.

What car is specificly designed to kill someone?

Exactly.

by **JimmyTango** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:49 am

Originally posted by Doug the Unforgiven

Second, knives are illegal? Should I be arrested for carrying a Swiss Army knife? Should I be arrested for having a knife that looks like it belongs to a Klingon?

Read again. I said certain knives. I believe it is regulated by state(not federal). I know in Ohio it is any non-kitchen knife that is longer than so many inches is illegal to own. Of course, you can still by them anywhere. Switch bales are illegal here, same with butterfly knives.

If you think you have a knife that belongs to a Klingon, you do not in any way need to own a gun, knife, or anythign else that can be taken for a weapon, and you should be at a mental hospital.

Originally posted by Doug the Unforgiven
I reject vehemently the notion that just because I have a firearm that I have an unstoppable urge to kill.

I don't think I saw that brought up. However, you are human. Humans, in an instant, can and will do something without thinking. It is part of our animal nature, we have not evolved from it yet. In an instant, you can and will use that firearm incorrectly. That does not mean you have the urge to kill someone. And please do not tell me you will not. In this day and age, where priests rape children, you will tell me that it is impossible for you, in the heat of an arguement, will use that weapon incorrectly? Total BS. It shows your lack of knowledge in how weak we as humans are.

Before you argue otherwise, that humans are nto weak. Take a look at the stats for countries that have guns. Then look at those that do not. See what happens when we allow ourselves firearms?

This is why I am against guns. We as humans are in no way responsible enough to carry one.

Originally posted by Doug the Unforgiven
When guns are made illegal, only criminals will have them (like in many countries where they are illegal, like Australia and Britain).

And rarley use them. Again, look at the stats.

Originally posted by Doug the Unforgiven

example:
Americans are stupid for giving up their rights.
Americans are stupid for giving up their rights.
Americans are stupid for giving up their rights.
Oh, Americans should give up that right because I don't agree with it.

See?

See? I see no example. An example would be something you pick out of the paper. Not some simple, water downed, one sided, thought up in your head conversation.

by **Jeffro** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 10:06 am

Woah there pals...BREAK IT UP! BREAK IT UPPPP!!! :eek:

This turned into a political discussion.... :freak:

by **Drax** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 10:11 am

yes. make peace...also klingon knives are cool.

by **cashcow** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 10:40 am

Originally posted by Jeffro
This turned into a political discussion....

Don't you realize that EVERY topic turns into a political discussion no matter what it is about?

You could be talking about your favorite lunch food and have the conversation turn into a flame war about Bush and the Middle-East conflict.

by **Chacal** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 12:34 pm

It certainly is difficult to have a discussion about guns (anywhere outside the "Guns and Ammo" magazine), and NOT talk about the gun problem in the US.

Living in communities always means losing some liberties. In 1850, there was little law outside the cities and people HAD to carry firearms. Unpopulated areas in the US were so vast that you could live months without meeting anyone. You had total liberty.

Not the picture has changed. You have to adapt. Of course there's a line to be drawn somewhere. I believe there's a difference between the right to bear arms and the right to privacy. The difference lies in the impact it makes on other people's rights.

It's easier here in Canada because we don't worship violence as much. We even have police TV shows where you rarely see a gun (most police officers rarely draw their weapon).

Doug, guns are not illegal here in Canada. I have one. We simply have made it a little tougher, so you can't get one in 5 minutes at the local KMart because you just found your wife in bed with another guy. When you apply for a license, they make an inquiry about you. They make sure you had training in safe weapon handling. And Jeffro would probably be told to wait until he's grown up a little.

The main part is registration. If I use my gun for murder, it will get traced back to me. If someone steals it from me, it can still help find the murderer.

We have banned some weapons. My Walther PPK is now illegal for sale because it's so easily concealable. I can't get a machine gun anymore unless it's been deactivated.

The argument I see quoted most often is "When guns are made illegal, only criminals will have them". I used to say that also. It is not true. If a hired killer really wants a weapon, yes he will get it. But a very small number of murders are comitted by pros. Most murderers are amateurs, like teen gang members, who kill because they're stupid, they happened to have a gun in their pocket, and they wanted to show how manly they were. Another kid flashed a finger at them, and bang.

How many US kids have lost their lives, or spend it in prison, because there is too many guns laying around?

by **Doug the Unforgiven** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 6:56 pm

There are laws that govern the irresponsible or lethal misuse of harmless items. Strangely enough, there are also thousands of laws dealing strictly with the irresponsible or lethal misuse of firearms. The law is the law. Should we go easy on someone just because he harms or kills with something other than a gun? This is why the "specifically designed to kill" argument lacks merit.

WTF? Get a load of this quote:
"In this day and age, where priests rape children, you will tell me that it is impossible for you, in the heat of an arguement, will use that weapon incorrectly?"

[rant]
You are one sick, sad fuck if you think these have any similarity. Many* shootings are accidents. Is it an accident when a priest rapes a child? FUCK NO! NEVER!! You have no credibility in any discussion if this is how you try to make your point, unless you're trying to pimp for NAMBLA.

*sigh* Why do I even waste my time?[/rant]

Have a nice day everyone, and for God's sake, don't accidently rape any children.

*edit note: I'm not too stubborn to correct myself. "Most" was a stupid misstatement.

by **Doug the Unforgiven** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 7:12 pm

One more thing:
If humans really are so weak and uncontrollable it would seem to be a good argument in favor of the right to defend oneself with lethal force.

Just look away from the little boys. If you see them looking back you might accidently rape one of them. No one wants that now, right? Please everyone, exercise caution around the kids.

by **JimmyTango** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 7:24 pm

Doug, you continue to show a lack of basic understanding of English.

Most shootings are accidents? Nice made up fact(and at least the second). Then you make an ass of yourself by concentrating on accidental, because you made up the stat that most shootings are accidents.

What is pathetic is you are making these stupid excuses for the right to own something specificly made to kill. How can you be proud to own something made to kill?

What real guns do you own?

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