WMD's and Democracy

by **cashcow** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:35 pm

I fully agree with HaVoC. And I thank RCGlider (followed by JimmyTango) for successfully turning what was a mature discussion into a flame war.

by **smithpa68** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:39 pm

Col Ingus and RC.. in my opinion you guys are on the mark. Ingus, hats of to you. I was in the service 89 to 97 too but my boots never hit the sand ( I was in the Navy ). Thanks for serving your country and I am glad you came home safely.

by **JimmyTango** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:43 pm

Originally posted by Colonel Ingus

I also think you are doing Evan a disservice re-read what he said and he is asking people NOT to antagonize YOU. he was defending you.

These aren't attacks upon you Jimmy Lets try and keep it civil.

I might have misread it. I took it as 'Stop antagonizing, Jimmy.' If it was ment as the way you pointed out, then I am sorry Evan. I would hope you would understand how it could have peeved me reading it the way I did.

by **Evan** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:51 pm

Actually to be honest I was talking to Jimmy. I was only concerned with the comment about 'RC glider and his shit'.

But yes, please don't antagonize (that goes for all of you!).

You've all seen how bad threads here can get when people start.

by **JimmyTango** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:17 pm

Then my original response was correct. Especially when you do not even understand that very old saying, nor even bothered to care what RCglider posted, which was a clear antagonistic post which drew out the my response with that old saying.

Someone involved with ECGN should be able to seperate themselves from any 'friendships' on the forum.

by **Mighty Mazz** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:22 pm

Off Topic:

Jimmy who/what the hell is that guy on your avatar? Is it that guy from Roseane who's name has escaped me right now John something ? Please fill me in. It's kind of irritating me cuz I think I know. Heh thx.

by **Evan** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:23 pm

I have no 'friendships' here with anyone but fellow staff members here - I prefer not to become biased towards any member of any forum.

by **Buliwyf** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:35 pm

Originally posted by Evan
I have no 'friendships' here with anyone but fellow staff members here

there goes your X-mas present!

by **Colonel Ingus** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:45 pm

Coal for Evan!

Ya Bastage!

by **JimmyTango** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 9:32 pm

Jimmy who/what the hell is that guy on your avatar? Is it that guy from Roseane who's name has escaped me right now John something ? Please fill me in. It's kind of irritating me cuz I think I know. Heh thx.

That would be Dr Strangelove from Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb, directed by Stanley Kubrick. One of the greatest talents ever to be filmed, Peter Sellers(Pink Panther films), played Dr Strangelove, Brittish Captain Lionel Mandrake, and the President on the United States.

My sig has two quotes from the movie, which shows some of the greatest plays on words on film.

It is the best satire on the Cold War, and one of the best satires ever.

It was directed by the genious Stanley Kubrick. Kubrick has directed movies you may have seen like The Shining, Full Metal Jacket, Spartacus, A Clockwork Orange, 2001, amoung other numerous classics.

Sadly, as Kubrick aged, his movies took longer and longer to make, because of his conpulsions to have them perfect. This led to fewer films before his death, and many films still in progress which will never see the light of day(A.I. did, but he passed that to Spielberg personally before he died, thinking his firend Spielberg was a better fit as director).

If you have seen any of the mentioned movies, and didn't liek them, watch them again. Much of his work takes more than one viewing before understanding it. Though I have watched all of his films numerous times, with many of them I find something new each time I watch it.

Sorry, I like Kubrick, he was a genious. So was Peter Sellers. I hope that HBO movie about Sellers' life is good.

by **sanpro411** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 9:43 pm

by **cashcow** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 10:09 pm

Dr. Strangelove is the best movie ever made.

by **=V!per=** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 10:15 pm

Off Topic:

Wow!! I leave for four hours to go to work and this thread really begins to accelerate. GJ fellas.

Topic:

Once again Colonel Ingus you've engineered a superb argument. You truly have an advantage having served in the military. And once again, I express my deepest respects. Now, as I recall you talked about how Afghanistan was at one point allied with the U.S. To refresh some peoples' memories the Soviet Union was having a "scuffle" w/ the Afghani country at which point we came in and (to our best interest) did what we could to slow the progress of the Communist political idealogy. In fact, a man by the name Osama bin Laden was aided by U.S. forces. This truly serves a present importance for as we know we aided an underprivileged country (even though the reasons seemed highly self-interested), but unfortunately left the country afterwards to fend for itself (i.e. Gulf War as well) Note: 24+ years later we once again are driven to the beheaveled country to aid it. Thus brings me to my question. Can we really ask to leave Iraq or Afghanistan alone now that we have solidified our involvement? The past cannot be erased so now we must face the present and decide if we shall face that which has become part of the United States.... world power=Number 1 target. We will be the number 1 enemy to all who admonish our strength and that calls for not domestic security, but in fact, international security based on the simple idea tha technology and our human advances have made our world a different battle front.

by **Rule of Wrist** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 11:55 pm

The war was/is not just about one thing... whether it's WMD, stopping evil dictators, bringing freedom to a people, or whatever else you may assign... it is a combination of all of those, you can't seperate them, anymore than you can seperate yourself from cause and effect.

The one overriding goal of this US policy is to protect our country down the road. Right now, we are in a lot of danger from these islamic terrorists, but right now they are also relatively weak... why should we wait for them to get stronger? Would it be better to have a few hundred american lives lost now, or several thousand or even hundred thousand lost a few years from now if we let them gain enough strength to face us on nearly even terms? That is the choice that we face.

US policy has the goal right now of stabilizing the middle east... not just for economic reasons, but for defense reasons as well. Havoc, the reason economies can prosper is because there is no war... when everyone is fighting, there can be no business done, so everyone's quality of life goes away... I think it's better to let a few people make a lot of money and have people living in peace than to have the whole world fighting wars all of the time... that is how life was about 1000 years ago, constant war between the major countries... and most people didn't live past the age of 35...

Agree or disagree with what is being done... at least it's SOMETHING... for the last decade, we've basically been ignoring the problems of the middle east in the hopes that it would go away... but instead it got worse, and we were perceived as weak by them, which emboldened them to attack us. I personally think these actions against terrorism should have been taken after the USS Cole incident, but that's just me.

Havoc, as far as painting a bigger bullseye on our backs, I think it was pretty big even before going into Iraq... I don't think that made it any worse... we have been at war with these type of islamic radicals for a long time, probably since the ayatollah seized power in iran in '79... we just now are coming to grips with it...

Make no mistake, what these people want is control of the world. They miss the days when the arab world was the height of civilization, when they controlled the middle east, most of africa, and the trade in the indian ocean. They want to bring back those days, want to make now EXACTLY like those days. No modern devices, everyone living a simple life devoted to allah, with no other books besides the koran... that may lead you to think of something other than serving whatever leader they assign to tell you what allah's will is today.

That is what they want. It's damn sure not what I want. And I think most americans are with me on that one.

by **-HaVoC-** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 3:10 am

Well wrist I see your points. It's good in a way that they saw us as a nation that is willing to follow through. I'm not sure to be honest, which is why I asked the question initially. I've enjoyed all the feedback.

Also with Christmas shopping for the kids I haven't had the time to pay this post the respect it deserves. There is some heavy reading here.

Keep it coming it's all good.

WMD's and Democracy

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