Less Kicks, More bans

by **the_slog** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 12:45 pm

Before I begin, I want to acknowledge that the BF1942 server is doubtless the best public server I’ve ever played on, Period. The admins spend a great deal of their online playing time keeping the server clean, and I am very grateful for that.

However, I don’t understand the motivation for kicks over bans. With Punkbuster 1.6, it is now possible to ban by CD key/Punkbuster id. Effectively, a player can be permanently removed from the server, never to bother us again.

So, why is it when an admin sees a player shoot up a friendly plane is that player not perma-banned? I can understand just kicking for taking a Jeep to a plane, but I don’t understand letting people off with a kick when they do something deliberate to hurt their own team. Why would ECGN ever want a player like that back?

In conclusion, what I’m asking for here is a “Get tough” policy. I believe that in the long run, it will make the admins lives easier, as these “smacktards” will never return. Thanks for listening.

by **BladeRunner** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 12:57 pm

i'm maybe more guility of this than most. i hand out lots of
kicks but very few bans.
i know it's no fun to get tked or damaged by the smackers
but i think even smackers can be reformed. if we perma
ban them they may never learn how to play this game and
get along with other players.
:beer:

by **the_slog** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 1:10 pm

Originally posted by BladeRunner
i'm maybe more guility of this than most. i hand out lots of
kicks but very few bans.
i know it's no fun to get tked or damaged by the smackers
but i think even smackers can be reformed. if we perma
ban them they may never learn how to play this game and
get along with other players.

I would make the arguement that these players have no interest in ever learning to play the game.

It's one thing to beach the destroyer in the water because you are new, it's another to ram the destroyer into the carrier because you didn't get a plane.

I don't want any admin to feel like I'm pointing a finger at them. ALL the admins (Even doomy) do an excellent job.

What I'm speaking about is more a change in philosophy.

by **Xythar** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 2:09 pm

All players should have a chance to redeem themselves, reguardless of their actions. Even if its something serious, a second chance would be logical, like parole.

by **Chacal** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 2:10 pm

We usually only ban when it's a very clear case of doing it on purpose. Bear in mind it's not always easy to tell the difference. Sometimes players call for a kick/ban for what they thought was an offence, althought I, using freecam, could clearly see it was not.

If there's any doubt, it's better to kick.

I've seen lots of kicked players come back and play straight from then on.

I've seen lots of players switched teams by the bot, or thinking FF was off.

Banning is like death penalty, people don't learn anything from it.

If this was a clan server, or a reg-only server, we could have more of an hard-line attitude. It is not. This is a public server, this attitude would be bad for business, and business is what keeps the server going.

by **Bagginses** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 2:40 pm

Devildog and Buddahead and I were talking about this on TS last night and here'd two examples we brought up.

The first one, was there was this guy who was standing on the deck of the carrier, near the superstructure. I started taking off in the SBD and he ran out right in front of me and I ran him over getting the TK. I got ticked and bitched about it on TS and Devildog reminded me that we can't kick someone for just doing something that might just be stupidity. So I agreed and forgot about it. Then, about a minute or so later, I hear Devildog complaining about how the same guy, ran right out in front of him and started shooting his SBD, so not only did Devildog get the TK, but he had a damaged aircraft. So, the are some cases where if you give them a second chance, they ruin it and turn out to just be a smacker.

But then Devildog told me about Zemuron who was kicked in the past and who came back and is going out of his way to be a teamplayer and not a smacker. So Devildog explained it to me and I think I understand it alot more now. It's better to kick someone who did something questionable, then exact judgement upon their return on whether they blow their second chance or not. Now obviously, if a teammate walks right up to you and shoves a bazooka in your face and pull the trigger, then it's obvious, but there are plenty of cases where I think they can redeem themselves.

-Bagginses

by **the_slog** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 3:09 pm

I am not advocating Banning Every newb who does something stupid. I understand completly that new players need to learn how to play.

Lets look at the airfield for example. If an admin sees a player shoot up a plane, because he didn't get it first, I think he should be banned.

If he wants to redeem himself, I have no problem with that. Let them come to the forums and ask for a second chance.

But then Devildog told me about Zemuron who was kicked in the past and who came back and is going out of his way to be a teamplayer and not a smacker. So Devildog explained it to me and I think I understand it alot more now. It's better to kick someone who did something questionable, then exact judgement upon their return on whether they blow their second chance or not. Now obviously, if a teammate walks right up to you and shoves a bazooka in your face and pull the trigger, then it's obvious, but there are plenty of cases where I think they can redeem themselves.

Zeuromon is the Perfect example. He was BANNED, not kicked. He then posted in these forums, and we reinstated.

by **AnimalCracka** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 4:45 pm

Originally posted by the_slog

Zeuromon is the Perfect example. He was BANNED, not kicked. He then posted in these forums, and we reinstated.

I kinda agree with that last statement, he was a smacker and was banned and found out what a great place to play this is, and saw the error of his ways. If a smacker is interested in learning the right way to play, he'll find the forums and ask for a second chance. Ive never seen any admin not give a second chance in the whines forum for anyone that is remorseful about what they've done. Just my 5 cents.

by **Buliwyf** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 4:49 pm

we keep trying to ban harry canyon but he just keeps getting back somehow

by **AnimalCracka** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 4:49 pm

I saw Enjin was on here and it reminded me that he hands out alot of time elapsed bans like 10 minute or multiple day bans, is that still possible to do by cd key?

by **BladeRunner** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 8:34 pm

Originally posted by *AnimalMutha*
I saw Enjin was on here and it reminded me that he hands out alot of time elapsed bans like 10 minute or multiple day bans, is that still possible to do by cd key?

this is from the PunkBuster admin manual for Q3/RTCW:
"PB_SV_Kick [name or slot #] [minutes] [displayed_reason] | [optional_private_reason]
Removes a player from the game and won't let the player rejoin until specified [minutes] has passed or until the server is restarted, whichever comes first - kicks are not written to the pbbans.dat file but they are logged and will show up in the output from the pb_sv_banlist command "

The time part works for a pb kick but i'm not sure about the
message part. i think Ryan, Weasel or Mugzy know for sure.
i think they are the punkbuster pros.

by **Rule of Wrist** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 9:10 pm

This is how I do it...

If I see an egregious offense, such as shooting up your teammates planes on purpose because you couldn't get there, banned.

If someone tells me about it (hearsay), kicked.

Someone breaks one of the rules like driving to airfield or team jumping, kicked.

Too many snipers, ten minute ban. And I always warn over TS on this one, and will now warn over chat, since it's fixed... the reason for temp ban is because most of the time they would come right back and resume sniping...

Stupidity on tactics is kind of a hard thing... like the other night, some dude bombed the grey north flag on el al in the b17, wiping out his whole defending team and a few enemies... I've seen the guy play before, and I don't think he was really trying to be a smacker, but that was a pretty boneheaded move, and he ended up with a -5 5 1 score, so I kicked him...

I feel this is an admin judgement call, such as wasting resources... if a guy is trying, but just a newb, he won't get kicked, we were all there at one time

As far as bans go, I'm basically in line with the policy of banning for egregious TKrs and then letting them come to the forums to apologize and possibly be reinstated if they so choose...

by **senwolf31** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 9:29 pm

Hmm I totally understand the less kicks more ban issue.

ive allways been a square player and know the server rules. Yet I shot 2 rounds into a plane that was taking off that someone was in out of frustration. This is clearly not exceptable behavior on my part but I use the suposed excuse of angry and frustrated. Next thing I know I am taken aside and spoken to by Chacal and we had a little talk.

Now if you were an admin slog id be gone and the server would be empty one suposedly bad player. Under Chacals admining I have seen the error of my ways and have learned not to let the frustration get to me.

Personally I prefer the Chacal method. The calm level headed understanding parental approach as compaired to a dictators stern or hard handed approach.

And shouts out to Chacal for not just tossing my little butt on the ban list and leaving me there even though he had every right and ability to.

In closing just think about it im sure there are others that are playing on the server that like me have made a minor mistake but would not playing on the server if there was more bans and less kicks. This I believe would severly make the server a less enjoyable and interesting place.

by **AnimalCracka** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 11:06 pm

Sen, if the admins were able to pull every smacker in the game aside and talk to them in person, there wouldnt be any question about it. Either they would say Im sorry and probably wouldnt do it again because nobody likes to be reprimanded in person or they would tell you to piss off and then they'd get the kick and /or ban. If only there was voice comm. built into the game.

by **AnimalCracka** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 11:07 pm

Thanks for answering that for me Blade. :beer:

Less Kicks, More bans

Less Kicks, More bans

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