*WPT* Fat now an Illness

Off topic, but don't go too far overboard - after all, we are watching...heh.
User avatar
Posts: 1147
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2003 11:05 pm
Location: St Paul MN

Postby Colonel Ingus » Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:27 pm

No Jimmy the problem here is your socialism and desire for Federal Government to make everything safe for you.

There is a long and rich history of private fire fighting and police work in this country. And it was done quite well and on a consistent basis. Police and Fire fighting companies that did poor jobs lost their business.

So where's the difference there Jimmy.

Old free market economy and you chose the company you wanted and paid what you thought was fair. Under our lovely system you'll just have the government take as much money as they want and then decide what kind of service I am going to get.

The original intent, for many of the Founding Fathers, was that most matters would be decided at the State level and the ONLY thing the federal government was for was foreign relations and national defense. This was so that some Yahoo from somewhere like, say Ohio, who believed in a socialist agenda could do whatever the hell he wants in Ohio and I can have a different system next door in Indiana. But with judicial activism and a Federalist agenda we move further and further away from that.

But I forget! Sorry. The agenda is for government to carry us from cradle to grave without ever having to hurt you head by making a decision by yourself.

And I thought we got rid of Serfdom with the Founding of America.

And how can you say there wouldn't be highways? I have heard you pop off about that before and want to see your data on how we wouldn't have roads without the Federal Government taxing us. You could easily counter that argument considering cities, states, or god forbid even private industry would make such roads. They might even charge a toll to use said road!

That would be horrible! It would be so different from the current system where the Federal Government taxes you, uses your money to make the road, AND charges you a toll to use it.

It all comes down to personal preferences and many of us do not want to live in a world that is dumbed down to its lowest common denominator.

Did you know when the Federal Income Tax was first introduced there was a movement to have it capped? They wanted to cap it at 4%.

4%!

And you know why they didn't legislate that then? Because many politicians feared that if people saw that they would assume that eventually they would be paying as high as 4% and wouldn't accept a tax rate that high. They felt 4% was way too much.

What do you pay in a percentage Jimmy?
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." ... Benjamin Franklin

User avatar
Posts: 1774
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2002 5:17 pm
Location: Land of the Shemales.

Postby JimmyTango » Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:29 pm

Originally posted by CodeRed68
Jimmy it is not a suprise that private companies will always create a better product through competition for your dollars. This can be taken to the level I speak of including police officers. A private police force will want to get the contract of your city and hence provide the best protection otherwise the city will fire them and hire the better police force. Just an example but this goes the same for all the other public agencies.


Investigate our nation's history. Police and fire used to be private in many large cities, including NYC. All led to wide scale corruption. The local and state politicians get kick backs, those private companies running police/fire stay in place.

Originally posted by CodeRed68

The same goes for roads. Let each state pay thier own way. If you don't like the roads in a particular state, oh well, drive around it or move to a different state. When the state starts seeing its citizens all leaving, they will budget this out from the local taxes collected. Oh and while they are at it, use a private company to build the best road there is for cheaper then public road workers do it for.


If the states could afford to build the roads they would not be getting money from the federal government. Also, from what I have seen, the vast majority(if not all) of contracts go to private firms, it is who gives the best bid for them.
Originally posted by CodeRed68

I also would not have a problem with a small federal income tax. Let's say 3-4% should be enough. Not 38% or more like it is now!


Impossible. if we can not have a balanced budget, let alone pay off our national debt, with the taxes we pay now, how is dropping taxes going to help?
Originally posted by CodeRed68

The Federal govt should be as minimal as possible and let the citizens decide for themselves how to spend thier money and to choose who to provide services for them.


We are a representitive government, the people how no say in how their money is spent no matter if it is 'big' government or not. We have say in who we vote into office, and they then speak for us.

User avatar
Posts: 1147
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2003 11:05 pm
Location: St Paul MN

Postby Colonel Ingus » Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:43 pm

We are a representitive government, the people how no say in how their money is spent no matter if it is 'big' government or not. We have say in who we vote into office, and they then speak for us.


Please reconcile this statement with your sigs quotes and the posts you have put up lately.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." ... Benjamin Franklin

User avatar
Posts: 1774
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2002 5:17 pm
Location: Land of the Shemales.

Postby JimmyTango » Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:53 pm

Originally posted by Colonel Ingus
Please reconcile this statement with your sigs quotes and the posts you have put up lately.


What?

It is not hard. You vote into office who you want to speak for you, from your local government, to county, to state to federal. This is nothing new, nor anything I have ever denied. Even if you have a 'small government' it will still be a representitive government, we will not be voting on where my tax money will be going, the men and women I vote into office do. The quotes in my sig are in no way against this, nor have any of my posts been. It is a fact, we area a representitive government, we really are, no joke.

User avatar
Posts: 1147
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2003 11:05 pm
Location: St Paul MN

Postby Colonel Ingus » Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:53 pm

Just taking a shot at you JimmyT

I should have emphasized the point I was trying to make

and they then speak for us.


Heh heh heh :D

I may not think your "Bushisms" are true but I think we can all agree that the current head honcho aint the worlds greatest speaker.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." ... Benjamin Franklin

User avatar
Posts: 1441
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Postby CodeRed68 » Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:46 am

Well, this argument can go on and on trying to convince the other. We obviously have opposite views. You think big government taking care of everything is the answer and I think very little government allowing citizens to choose and pay for thier services is the answer.
I have to refer to Ingus's post at the top of this page. I basically could not have said it better myself. That is what I think is right and should be the path we are on. The sad truth is that unless a third political party (Libertarians comes to mind) comes to the forefront we are stuck in the status quo with governement getting bigger and bigger. Taking more and more of our money and spending it "for our own good".

We can successfully reduce federal taxes by 30%, cut 99% of the federal programs, delegating them to the state and local level and reduce our national debt.
Image
thanks to Spirit of Me for the sig!

Posts: 551
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 5:18 pm

Postby RCglider » Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:14 am

The Federal government already regulates the medical industry, it just hasn't reached the level of Hillary Care.

The bigger the government gets, the more it regulates. The more it regulates, the bigger it gets. Who says there's no such thing as perpetual motion?

Liberals are a peculiar sort. They should be very pleased with the domestic spending increases the past 3 years, but they are never happy unless they are doing the spending. They are however strangely silent this election cycle concerning cradle-to-grave government nanny programs, although they've worn out the 'taxcuts for the rich' (anyone that pays taxes is rich in their eyes). Maybe $20,000 spent per household is enough to keep them quiet until about October.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/BG1710.cfm

With all due respect, how do you propose to 'balance the checkbook' when spending is continually increased and the government bloats more each year? It is not arguable (please no more Liberal rantings) that raising taxes stifles economic activity, and lowering taxes stimulates economic activity. However, if spending isn't controlled, all the taxcuts in the world will not balance the budget. In Michigan, the politicians here are raising fees and licenses, including another tobacco tax increase of .75 cents a pack. At least they had the guts to admit high tobacco taxes are for revenue and not to get people to quit smoking.

As for homeowners insurance, my insurance has nearly tripled in the least 3 years. Car insurance has probably doubled. Basically, we're paying for A) 911 and natural disasters, and B) poor investments resulting from the dotcom bubble bursting scams from the 90's. Oh yes, I forgot to mention No-Fault Insurance is highly regulated.....we affectionately call it Your-Fault Insurance, plus we pay for the bums drunks that won't/can't buy their own.

I've posted the following before, but I wonder at what stage we are now. I'd say we're pretty much at the dependency level:

Alexander Tyler's

‘The Cycle of Democracy’

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.

The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years.

These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage.

-----------------------------------------------------
Remember Spy vs Spy? It was my favorite magazine to hide from my parents LOL. Now we have Spender vs Spender. If terrrorism wasn't on the front burner, the race to rape taxpayers would be the top priority. For example, Kerry's promises make George Bush look like a frugal tightwad. The increased military spending is of special humor since his MO has been to cut spending in that area..

John Kerry's Voter Purchasing Plan:

Agriculture
Increase spending on conservation programs and farm subsidies.
Expand Amtrak service in rural areas.
Increase spending on rural health care and community health clinics.

AIDS Plan
Increase AIDS spending abroad to $30 billion.
Increase spending on tuberculosis and malaria.
Increase spending to train foreign health-care workers.
Expand programs to assist children orphaned by AIDS.
New programs to help women reduce risk of HIV infection.

Americans with Disabilities
Enhance Medicare coverage for workers with disabilities.
Low interest loans for bus companies to purchase accessible busses.
Federal grants for Paratransit, particularly in rural areas.
Expand Project ACTION for civil rights in transportation services.
Increased spending on the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act.

Children
Increase child-care funding with grants to the states.
Ensure after-school care for every child in America.
Fund states to provide salary bonuses to child-care workers who get
training.
Expand child anti-abuse programs.
Increase the Child Care and Development Block Grant.
New program to train health professionals and school officials to prevent
childhood obesity.

Economy and Jobs
Expand YouthBuild and other job-training and education programs.
Subsidize manufacturers to provide worker health-care and retirement benefits.
New "State Tax Relief and Education Fund" to give the states $50 billion over two years.
Expand programs that assist minority- and women-owned companies.
Assist workers in declining industries to retrain and upgrade skills.
Cancel a portion of student loans for engineering and computer students if they agree to work in manufacturing.

Education
Expand Head Start and Early Head Start.
New National Education Trust Fund to increase education funding.
Fund the 21st Century Community Learning Center program.
Expand early intervention efforts like Gear-Up and TRIO.
Issue $24.8 billion in new bonds to build and repair schools.
New refundable tax credit for $4,000 of college tuition.
New "I Have a Dream" program to prepare for college.
New "Service for College" initiative to earn college tuition in exchange for two years of community service.

Energy and Environment
New Manhattan Project to make America independent of Middle East oil.
New renewable energy trust fund.
New national tracking system for chronic diseases and environmental hazards.

Health
Expand health care coverage to 96 percent of Americans and provide health insurance for every child in America.
Enhance Medicare benefits to include rehabilitation services, community-transition services, mental-health parity, and home health service.
Expand the new Medicare drug benefit.
Expand Medicaid benefits.
Greater federal financing of long-term services for the disabled.
Subsidies to companies and insurance firms to pay for part of catastrophic health costs.
Technology bonus for companies to switch to electronic health records.
Fund drug-abuse prevention and treatment.
Raise the Medicare-reimbursement rate for nurse midwives.

Homeland Security
New First Defenders Service to hire 100,000 firefighters.
New Community Defense Service to organize Americans under community Service Captains.
National Homeland Health Initiative for health training and research.

Housing
New demonstration projects for disabled housing.
Expand Section 8 housing-voucher program.
Increase funding for seniors' independent living centers and local aging agencies.

National Service
New Retired Not Tired program to enroll 100,000 seniors in community service.
New Summer of Service program for teenagers.
Major expansion of the Peace Corps.

Native Americans
Increase funding for the Indian Health Service.
Strengthen health care for Indian seniors.
Increase funding for roads and infrastructure in Indian Country.
Build safe and affordable housing in Indian Country.
Increase loans to Native-American-owned small businesses.
New Office of Native American Affairs in the Small Business Administration.
New grant program to assist American Indians and Alaska Natives.
Repair and build new schools for Indian children.
Increase funding for tribal colleges.
Increase funding for tribal courts.

Small Business
Expand micro-loans for small businesses.
Expand loans for small business start-ups.
New Office of Manufacturing at the Small Business Administration.
Increase the government's venture capital investments.
New refundable tax credits to small businesses for health insurance.

Technology
Fund cutting-edge technology that the private sector will not.
Increase research funding for the Department of Energy, NASA, and the National Science Foundation.
Double funding for the Manufacturing Extension Partnership.

Urban America
New Affordable Housing Trust Fund to provide 1.5 million rental units for low-income families.
New funding for faith-based charities that provide services to children, families, seniors, and that fund AIDS education, shelter, drug prevention, and job training.
Increase funding of drug-treatment programs.

Veterans and Military
Increase veterans' retirement benefits.
New program to fund health care for reservists.
Bolster Family Assistance Centers on military bases.
Improve service members' life insurance and increase benefits for surviving spouses.




Face it people, the country is going belly up, both financially and socially.

User avatar
Posts: 1147
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2003 11:05 pm
Location: St Paul MN

Postby Colonel Ingus » Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:20 am

Investigate our nation's history. Police and fire used to be private in many large cities, including NYC. All led to wide scale corruption. The local and state politicians get kick backs, those private companies running police/fire stay in place.


Actually although I would dispute your "corruption" argument as it is far from the truth (the real truth not the one you prefer) it makes an excellent point. Things sure have changed now that "corruption" is government mandated and goes to the people who you elect. Thank God the Medicaire Program relieves you of having to pay money out to drug companies for someon elses use. No, Now you can use a proxy called "taxes" to give your money to them. Much like many of Clinton's EPA "reforms" now allow companies to lower their standards for pollution. Money that instead of demanding a better production method from the company you now pay for in taxes.

If the states could afford to build the roads they would not be getting money from the federal government. Also, from what I have seen, the vast majority(if not all) of contracts go to private firms, it is who gives the best bid for them.


If the Federal Government wasn't taking my frigging money in the first place my state could afford the road, or charge me a toll and I would end up paying for the road anyway now wouldn't I? Except then I would have the choice of using the road or not, instead of my money being arbitrarily spent on a project.

But my favorite is

Also, from what I have seen, the vast majority(if not all) of contracts go to private firms, it is who gives the best bid for them


Much like how Haliburton got an open ended contract for Iraq without any competitive bidding? or how the Carlysle group (which the Clinton's and Kerry's made money off of) got an 11 BILLION dollar contract for the unwanted Crusader arty system (since cancelled by Rumsfield).

Impossible. if we can not have a balanced budget, let alone pay off our national debt, with the taxes we pay now, how is dropping taxes going to help?


You are right Jimmy. Instead of going "WTF am I doing" cutting my costs, and telling people who never gave a shit about me until they needed me to fuck off, I am going to spend all my time and effort working my hands to the bone so that the 7 rich Mother Fuckers who own the federal reserve can be even more rich.

Never mind the fact that we anually blow literally BILLIONS of dollars on not only pork barrel projects. but sustaining bullshit liberal programs to support people. People not just in America who won't get off their lazy asses, but people all around the world who hate America and would never even say thank you for what we have done for them.

No it would be better that we buck up!, take it like a liberal ( cheeks spread?) and continue to pay way to friggin much money for shit that does not work for people who don't appreciate it.

Here's a clue for you Jimmy. I know its difficult but work with me. Let's spend less! WOW! what an idea! I would be willing to give up a big military project for every bullshit social endowment program you would be willing to give up. You game?
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." ... Benjamin Franklin

User avatar
Posts: 1774
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2002 5:17 pm
Location: Land of the Shemales.

Postby JimmyTango » Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:35 am

Originally posted by Colonel Ingus
Just taking a shot at you JimmyT



No, Ingus, you have already done that, numerous times.

You are more than happy to call someone's posts ranting and rhetoric but can not bother to look at the shit you post yourself. Scroll back up and look how heated your posts get for no fucking reason. This is my favorite one:

Originally posted by Colonel Ingus
This was so that some Yahoo from somewhere like, say Ohio, who believed in a socialist agenda could do whatever the hell he wants in Ohio and I can have a different system next door in Indiana.


In reality, you are a pathetic little person who has to start these stupid and pointless threads to make yourself feel better, and the second someone disagrees with you, you start ranting and raving, calling people communist/socialist, etc etc etc. If this is what gives you your hard on to get through to day, good for you. Your little game is getting old, though. Start a thread, attack anyone who disagrees. Have fun with your pathetic attempts to boost your self esteem. I shoudl have dropped out even attempting to reply to one of your threads like so many have already. I was stupid enough to think you just may change, when those others clearly knew better. Have fun with your little games all by your lonesome, except for the few that will pat you on your back and make you smile.

Previous

Return to The Smokin' Room

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests