When is this madness going to stop?

[CodeRed68 Profile]

Originally posted by JimmyTango
Actually, it is a correct one.

That is the sad thing. Americans can do no wrong, only other countries.

Do you think these people are fighting us, kidnapping and beheading people or doing suicide bombings just for the fun of it? It is not possible they have a grievence against us? It's not possible that they may be a little bit angry at us for what they feel is an invasion force, for family members killed in error as a bomb hit their house, not the compound next to it?

These peopel doing this, right or wrong, see things a diffeent way. Saying that is not so just shows how narrow minded and ignorant you are.

JimmyTango you are one sick individual. How dare you defend these brutal murderers. That is what they are. Murderers. And you in all your "wisdom" are defending them.
If the insurgent groups in Iraq have a problem with us invading them or with our presense there, then fight our army. Fight our military. Do not take innocent, unarmed civilian workers there trying to rebuild and kill them. That is murder.
As for the families you speak of whom the coalition forces are killing by bombing thier neighborhoods, It is the insurgents fault for hiding amongst the population and carrying out thier terroristic acts from there. Blame the insurgents for putting thier own people in danger. Of course they would'nt care about that because they are just barbaric animals the have no regard for human life.

Your quest for putting America in the worst light and your Anti-Americanism are clouding your vision of the real picture. You need to get a grip.

[JimmyTango Profile]

Originally posted by CodeRed68
JimmyTango you are one sick individual. How dare you defend these brutal murderers. That is what they are. Murderers. And you in all your "wisdom" are defending them.
If the insurgent groups in Iraq have a problem with us invading them or with our presense there, then fight our army. Fight our military. Do not take innocent, unarmed civilian workers there trying to rebuild and kill them. That is murder.
As for the families you speak of whom the coalition forces are killing by bombing thier neighborhoods, It is the insurgents fault for hiding amongst the population and carrying out thier terroristic acts from there. Blame the insurgents for putting thier own people in danger. Of course they would'nt care about that because they are just barbaric animals the have no regard for human life.

Your quest for putting America in the worst light and your Anti-Americanism are clouding your vision of the real picture. You need to get a grip.

This post shows how utterly stupid you are. In no way am I defending them. What they are doing is wrong. To say they have no reason do be doing it is just as wrong. You have to look at it through their eyes.

I know this will be hard, since it demands enough concentration to pass a 4th grade english test, but here it goes:

Shockwave quotes this:

Originally posted by Jeffro


How can us human beings treat each other like this?

Will it ever stop?

I am starting to doubt that it will...

And replies with:

Originally posted by shockwave203
Some Iraqi's were probably thinking the exact same thing when their loved ones were being killed by american soldiers.

Lets examine. Some, not all, iraqi's may have felt the same thing towards american soldiers when their loved ones were killed. Not murdered, beaten, just killed.

After this, shockwave was jumped on as if he said American's cuased it, they go in and slaughter civilians each and every day, on purpose.

Can we all admit that at least one Iraqi might have died that was an accident? A bomb that missed it's target? A bus that didn't stop at a check point so it was opened up on, and an innocent passanger was killed?

And that maybe his or her brother might be fueled by this to join a group that may want to kidnap someone and demand their country or country's businesses pull out of Iraq?

This is totally alien to you? You can not fathom this at all? This is not a possibility?

Like I said: These people doing this, right or wrong, see things a different way. Saying that is not so just shows how narrow minded and ignorant you are.

[Folic_Acid Profile ICQYIM]

Jimmy, if you just want to do the usual rant and personal attacks, then just continue as you are. If you truly want a rational discussion, perhaps you should read here.

[JimmyTango Profile]

Originally posted by Folic_Acid
Jimmy, if you just want to do the usual rant and personal attacks, then just continue as you are. If you truly want a rational discussion, perhaps you should read here.

Lol.

Funny, it really is. And opening your post with a smart ass comment is how you have a rational discussion? of course, how dare you ever ask codered to not rant or have personal attacks(only the post I quoted).

And, BTW, your whole post of yours has absolutely nothing to do with what I posted. It is not rational since it has nothing to do with anything. It is just you and your typical ways. Start spiraling all over the place, replying to posts never made, etc. Have fun with it as you do it by yourself.

[cavalierlwt Profile]

It's true, an Iraqi person whose loved one got killed by an errant bomb is going to hate America just a much a person whose loved one was killed by Saddam...six of one, half of dozen of another. I also don't expect a certain percentage (maybe nearly all of them) to really appreciate an invasion force.
I don't claim America's always right, does no wrong etc. But on the other hand, what gets pretty F*ng annoying is people who either insinuate or out right say that America does no right, that America is always wrong, that America is the biggest force of evil in the world. It's as much a bullsh*** stance as the 'America is always right' crowd. Once again it's a matter of extremism, extreme pro-American, extreme anti-American that gets in the way any rational thought or discourse.
I had the feeling that the original poster wasn't taking the 'Geez aren't these Iraqis such badguys angle' as much as he was saying what a horrible world we live in were people so casually kill randomly. He didn't assign the blame other than on human beings as a whole. Once again though Shockwave jumps in to very pointedly assign the blame, using the thread for a whole other agenda.

[Folic_Acid Profile ICQYIM]

You're a funny guy, Jimmy. I'm very sorry you can't seem to grasp the substance of what you yourself are talking about, but would rather steer a conversation away from real substance and toward the parsing of what you "did say" and what you "didn't say." It'd be much more challenging to have a good political discussion.

When you care to reasonably and rationally discuss issues, then look me up. Until then, I'll keep using my big words and irrational (to you) observations.

[Jeffro Profile YIM]

Originally posted by cavalierlwt
I had the feeling that the original poster wasn't taking the 'Geez aren't these Iraqis such badguys angle' as much as he was saying what a horrible world we live in were people so casually kill randomly. He didn't assign the blame other than on human beings as a whole. Once again though Shockwave jumps in to very pointedly assign the blame, using the thread for a whole other agenda.

Exactly! That is what I meant.

[Sewer-Urchin]

Originally posted by JimmyTango
Lol.


And, BTW, your whole post of yours has absolutely nothing to do with what I posted. It is not rational since it has nothing to do with anything. It is just you and your typical ways. Start spiraling all over the place, replying to posts never made, etc. Have fun with it as you do it by yourself.

Frist off Jimmy I think you were trying to say his post wasn't relevant, i.e. it wasn't germane to your point. To say it wasn't rational would be to imply that the logic was somehow flawed, which in this case it wasn't.

Secondly, it's interesting that when the liberal viewpoint is called into question, the most common defence is slander. It's all well and good that you say the post is irrational (irrelevant?) but there's no proof offered. In place of a good political disscussion, you offer personal attacks meant to undermine the positions of those who post against you. Now, you have also been the recipiant of these types of attacks, but it doesn't excuse using them for yourself. If you want to disagree, do so from an intellectual position, not name-calling on the posters....it lacks class, and is rather ineffective too.

[CodeRed68 Profile]

Yes. Obviously the post has gone off on another tangent thanks to JimmyTango's anti-American rhetoric. As per usual.
Shockwave makes a comment regarding Iraqi's thoughts on Americans and you of course jump at the oppurtunity to put America in a bad light. In this case, a very sick way of defending if not the actions, the very reasoning behind the actions against Americans.
Any chance for you to spew your anti-war propaganda.

You are so stupid and blind if you think the insurgents are beheading Americans because the U.S. invaded/bombed thier homes. These are criminal, terroristic acts that go beyond the mere "revenge" factor of fathers and brothers.
They have thier own political agenda and are glad we took Saddam out for them.
Now is thier chance to gain control of Iraq and make the U.S. look like the bad guy while they plan to create a terrorist state.
Jimmy you need to "shut up, sit down". [howard stern]

[JimmyTango Profile]

It's sad that you still do not understand my post after going over it with you. Real sad. Pathetic, actually.

Not only that, but in no way was what I posted even close to anti-american. Nor was it even close to 'anti-war' propaganda. Nor, once again, is it putting America or American's in a bad light. Saying the way SOME see it has nothing to do with anti-american/anti-war or putting america in a bad light.

Would me discussing how some Nazis viewed the jews meaning I was supporting them and putting the jews and allies in a bad light? No. Neither does this. How many times does that need to be explained to you?

I am not supporting their cause. It is not that freaking hard.

Folic's post had nothing to do with anything I said. Picking 1 of the insurgent leaders and making a whole post out of it to argue is pointless. CodeRed continues it above.

"You are so stupid and blind if you think the insurgents are beheading Americans because the U.S. invaded/bombed thier homes."

No one is saying all insurgents or Iraqi's. I even went out of my way to point out the word 'some.' I also didn't say this is the only reason why one would join up, I named a few and left out a ton. I also never said just American's, as it is in no way just Americans it is happening to.

[slog Profile]

Most Iraqis are aware (and most Americans are not) that the United States supplied Saddam with money and weapons for years. Anyone remember the Iran/Iraq war?

Now the USA does an about face, calls Saddam bad, and invades. If I was an Iraqi. I wouldn't trust the US either.

[inmate#655321]

Aren't we supposed to hand Iraq back over to them Friday? July 30th?

[Murgatroyd]

Originally posted by slog
Most Iraqis are aware (and most Americans are not) that the United States supplied Saddam with money and weapons for years. Anyone remember the Iran/Iraq war?

Now the USA does an about face, calls Saddam bad, and invades. If I was an Iraqi. I wouldn't trust the US either.

So, if someone made a mistake, then later realized their mistake, and took steps to try and fix it, you wouldn't trust them?

So, Nevell Chamberlain bends to Hitler's demands, and gives him Czechoslovakia. Then, when Hitler invades Poland, GBR declares war on Germany. So in this case, you would trust the Germans over the British because the British had a change in policy?

Better yet - Gulf War, 1991. Would you be cynical of the US's motives then, applying the same logic you do in this case?

[JimmyTango Profile]

Murg, he said if he was an iraqi.

[Face Profile]

EDIT: Bah...maybe I shouldn't say that.