Good Article about US economy, non-political

[King Profile]

Originally posted by Mighty Mazz
Heh just relax man no need to delete or apologize. Don't let these citizen policemen get to you. If an admin steps in and tells you you've crossed the line then panic and start begging for forgiveness.

Side thought it would be cool if the forum admins could change their text color as it adds authority. Kinda like Blizzard does.

But now that KingofBeers has brought hell and religion into this it's doomed.

i would say you are going to purgatory but apparently that place doesnt exist anymore, so go to hell.

[Mighty Mazz]

Originally posted by Kingofbeers
i would say you are going to purgatory but apparently that place doesnt exist anymore, so go to hell.

You obviously have never looked at my location. Zing'

[RCglider Profile]

Originally posted by JimmyTango
I find it funny that heritage uses % when you should use total number and total number when you should use %.

Say what?? Officially it's now a discussion on mathematics and statistics.

[JimmyTango Profile]

Originally posted by RCglider
Say what?? Officially it's now a discussion on mathematics and statistics.

No, common sense. Cav pointed out one example, not hard to figure out the other.

[JimmyTango Profile]

Originally posted by Mighty Mazz
Economics = Politics?!!! Maybe political posistions on the economy.

Originally posted by Mighty Mazz
Don't let these citizen policemen get to you.

I find this funny considering you are linking to clearly political stories.

[RCglider Profile]

Originally posted by JimmyTango
No, common sense. Cav pointed out one example, not hard to figure out the other.

I was replying to what was factually untrue according to available statistical data. If you are mathematically challenged, I apologize, there was no intention of insulting your intelligence or lack thereof.

[JimmyTango Profile]

Originally posted by RCglider
I was replying to what was factually untrue according to available statistical data. If you are mathematically challenged, I apologize, there was no intention of insulting your intelligence or lack thereof.

No, you linked to statistics used to throw off those that do not factor in common sense.

There are currently 6.4 million jobs in the U.S. in which the employer is a foreign company. The rate at which these “insourced” jobs are growing is faster that the rate at which jobs in general are being lost.

Flaw #1. A company owned by foreigners in the United States is not an 'insourced' job. They word this sentence to include a company in the US that is bought by a foreign person as 'insourcing.'

“Over the last 15 years, manufacturing ‘insourced’ jobs grew by 82%—at an annual rate of 5.5%; and manufacturing ‘outsourced’ jobs grew by 23 percent—at an annual rate of 1.5%.”

These are that statistics you use to say what was posted above is untrue. Do you not see the problem?

If 1 job is insourced per year and jumps to 2 jobs, there is a 100% increase.

If 100 jobs are outsourced per year, and it jumps to 150 jobs outsourced, it is a 50% increase.

Showing the % makes it seem like we are bring in more jobs than losing, when in reality it is completely the opposite.

In case you missed the first class off statistics, you learn that any statistic can be used to show your personal agenda, no matter how wrong it is in reality.

This is from the link YOU posted. There may be other statistics that show the total numbers, and they do favor insourcing over outsourcing. This does not matter. The statistics YOU posted, and YOU claimed and continue to claim support something that is not there.

Originally posted by RCglider
I apologize, there was no intention of insulting your intelligence or lack thereof.

This coming from the same person falling for one of the oldest tricks in the book? Beyond pathetic.

[Mighty Mazz]

Originally posted by JimmyTango
I find this funny considering you are linking to clearly political stories.

I find it funny too. If it's any consolation he was bashing both conservatives and liberals.

But honestly what I don't understand is why some people who have no authority over these boards are so quick to come in and denounce the topic and call for its closure. Let an admin do that it's not our responsibility to police the forums.

[JimmyTango Profile]

Originally posted by Mighty Mazz

But honestly what I don't understand is why some people who have no authority over these boards are so quick to come in and denounce the topic and call for its closure. Let an admin do that it's not our responsibility to police the forums.

So it is ok to start threads or post things that we have been told not to, but it is not ok to question it if you are not an admin? The one's with athority have ruled against certain types of posts, posting them and then complaining some one calls for it's closure is childish. Just don't do it? How hard is it? Why is it so many of you are just itching to post political crap here?

Cav's post started borderline, and it wasn't until your post where it was obvious it had crossed the line.

[Mighty Mazz]

Your'e not the judge of what is acceptable it's as simple as that. It's like when your in grammar school talking about something someone might find bad and some kid in your class comes up to you and tells you to stop, who the hell is he to tell you to stop. I honestly dont see your POV that this is 'political crap' and the fact that you come in here and start picking apart peoples posts just amazes me. On one hand you say that these threads should be stopped yet in the same thread you fuel the fire, which is it man.

Just don't click on the damn thread, stop reading, hell tell an admin.

I just dont see what the damn problem is here, besides a few people trying to make it into a problem. I think they have succeded kudos to you my friend.

(Rents PCU)

[Sewer-Urchin]

Originally posted by Mighty Mazz

(Rents PCU)

Great movie

"You're wearing the shirt of the band you're going to see? Don't be that guy!"

[RCglider Profile]

Originally posted by JimmyTango
No, you linked to statistics used to throw off those that do not factor in common sense.



Flaw #1. A company owned by foreigners in the United States is not an 'insourced' job. They word this sentence to include a company in the US that is bought by a foreign person as 'insourcing.'



These are that statistics you use to say what was posted above is untrue. Do you not see the problem?

If 1 job is insourced per year and jumps to 2 jobs, there is a 100% increase.

If 100 jobs are outsourced per year, and it jumps to 150 jobs outsourced, it is a 50% increase.

Showing the % makes it seem like we are bring in more jobs than losing, when in reality it is completely the opposite.

In case you missed the first class off statistics, you learn that any statistic can be used to show your personal agenda, no matter how wrong it is in reality.

This is from the link YOU posted. There may be other statistics that show the total numbers, and they do favor insourcing over outsourcing. This does not matter. The statistics YOU posted, and YOU claimed and continue to claim support something that is not there.



This coming from the same person falling for one of the oldest tricks in the book? Beyond pathetic.

Ok, get a grip on this. It's really that difficult. When U.S. companies outsource jobs to other countries, what would you call those jobs in those other countries? When foreign companies move their plants here, thereby "outsourcing" from their own country, what would that be called here?

No, I guess you don't understand statistics, let alone simple math and logic.

The rate at which jobs are insourced is higher than those outsourced. That means there is a net increase of jobs when comparing the two. More companies are moving jobs here than are shipping them elsewhere. Is it that hard to understand? Should we now feel guilty for such a tragedy as taking away jobs from workers in other countries?

Would it have helped you if I had just posted the content and not the link? I doubt you even read it. It's much easier to post anecdotal sob story examples than hard data. Nobody likes to see people lose their jobs, but that is the nature of a changing and growing economy; it's always been that way. Growth is the key to economic prosperity.

One example in the Yahoo article:
"This transformation is no longer just about factory workers, whose ranks have declined by 5 million in the past 25 years as manufacturing moved to countries with cheaper labor."

There's more to it than just "outsourcing" jobs. What is left out of that statement is something called productivity. New technology, automated machinery and other innovative equipment has made consumer goods much less expensive and improved manufacturing efficiency by leaps and bounds. Since I've been working in manufacturing for over 20 years, I've seen this transformation. When I worked in the aircraft industry for example, inspecting an airfoil profile on a vane typically took approximately 8 hours per vane. However, with the advent of the CMM (coordinate measuring machine) and advanced software, the entire procedure can be done in less than 10 minutes.

In automotive, engines are manufactured with much more precision, eliminating much of the manual operations that decades past was the norm. Would we be better off if engines were still done largely by manual operation just for the sake of "saving jobs"? I don't think so.

The same is true for communications. Many hundreds of thousands of operators lost their jobs during the 70's and 80's because of technology improvements. AT&T workers in the example were displaced because of competition (deregulation), not outsourcing. Bad for high paid AT&T workers, but good for consumers. Look at the communications industry today and the choices given consumers.

I also recall the outrage and shock when the last typewriter company (Smith-Corona?) in the U.S. moved it's operations out of the U.S. How terrible it was for those displaced workers. Seriously, who buys a typewriter in this country anymore? Yet, the picture was painted of how horrible it was.

My brother-in-law worked for Honeywell-Bull for 29 years (less than 1 year for full retirement) as a mainframe engineer. He was canned in 1996. He could have sat around filling out resume's until the cows came home, but it would have been a futile excercise. He had to start over. Sad, but it was the reality of his field of work. He also could have whined and complained about how bad his life was, but instead he changed careers and is doing quite well.

The same happened to my wife's uncle in California when IBM made all those cuts. Quite traumatic no doubt, but he made adjustments and today is doing very well.

I too had the misfortune of losing my job in 1992. Rather than blame this that or the other thing, I had to start over basically.


If things are so bad and the middle class is shrinking so much, how is it that property values keep rising and people keep buying? Since 1994 my property has tripled in value, yet I don't live in a high income area. How is that possible?

If the idea is that economic cycles are static with finite resources with 'only so much do go around' is correct, then we should back in the stoneage by now. The economy is ever changing, meaning it's dynamic and cyclical, but moving forward and growing.

Like I said, the days of barely graduating from high school and expecting to land a 50k+ job at GM, Ford etc. is over. It has been for 25 years. If you want to get ahead, you must choose what the market demands, be educated, or be an entrepreneur and start your own business, something that many are in fact doing in large numbers. There will be shortages in some areas, a glut in others.....that's the way it's always been and will be.

BTW, the most successful people I personally know don't have degrees. How can that be?

[Colonel Ingus Profile]

Don't let these snackers tell you what you can or can't post. Thats for the Admins to decide.

Besides even if you do start a borderline political thread it won't get closed til someone like myself or JimmyT posts on it and starts a firestorm.

So allow me to start this discussion with my worthy counterpart.



blah blah blah, blah blah blah,



....so you see why social/liberalism is wrong.

I await his response.

[RCglider Profile]

Originally posted by Colonel Ingus
Don't let these snackers tell you what you can or can't post. Thats for the Admins to decide.

Besides even if you do start a borderline political thread it won't get closed til someone like myself or JimmyT posts on it and starts a firestorm.

So allow me to start this discussion with my worthy counterpart.



blah blah blah, blah blah blah,



....so you see why social/liberalism is wrong.

I await his response.

I'm sorry, it's been pretty boring around here, and am really trying to keep politics out of it, but evidently even logic and econ 101 can't be apolitical.

[Murgatroyd]

...these are not the droids you are looking for.