How much you dislike Microsoft's Genuine Windows Validation
30 posts
• Page 2 of 2 • 1, 2
by =ender= » Fri Aug 05, 2005 10:34 am
How to cut down on piracy? Cut down on the cost of software. Reduce the cost, increase legit sales, and they still make money off it. I don't just mean for XP either but Office and anything else they make as well. The prices they have are freaking crazy. It's no wonder why the piracy exists in the first place.
Move as a team, never move alone. Welcome to the Terrordome!
- Spirit of Me
-
- Posts: 306
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 8:00 pm
- Location: lost in West Virginia
by Spirit of Me » Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:24 am
RANT follows; 
Microsoft employs over 57,000 employees over 5,000 of those work with code on many different products.
There are millions of people trying to find flaws in their products.
No company regardless of how big will be able to prevent thugs from hacking security or finding bugs.
Yes, pirating software if a given. MS has every right to try to make it harder to stop this theft. Yes it will be a the cost of convenience to the legitimate end users just like those damn doors on the safe at my local bank keep me from my money (and yours).
9 out of 10 people using a computer has a pirated software of some type on their machine. Be it a OS or screen saver given to them by Uncle Buck or Billy the smart kid down the street.
Are there some folks at Microsoft getting very rich, yes. There are lots of folks making a killing in oil, grain and even pork belly's. It's supply and demand.
Should Microsoft spend more money on product security? Sure, but it won't do any good. They could use every dime they make and someone will find a way to exploited the software.
The Goal: Stay on top of the exploits and hacks as fast as possible.
Sorry guys, but as a software developer and small businesses owner I find it too easy for people to say shame on MS when I see way to much pirating.
Those who pay can complain those who pirate should worry.
Microsoft employs over 57,000 employees over 5,000 of those work with code on many different products.
There are millions of people trying to find flaws in their products.
No company regardless of how big will be able to prevent thugs from hacking security or finding bugs.
Yes, pirating software if a given. MS has every right to try to make it harder to stop this theft. Yes it will be a the cost of convenience to the legitimate end users just like those damn doors on the safe at my local bank keep me from my money (and yours).
9 out of 10 people using a computer has a pirated software of some type on their machine. Be it a OS or screen saver given to them by Uncle Buck or Billy the smart kid down the street.
Are there some folks at Microsoft getting very rich, yes. There are lots of folks making a killing in oil, grain and even pork belly's. It's supply and demand.
Should Microsoft spend more money on product security? Sure, but it won't do any good. They could use every dime they make and someone will find a way to exploited the software.
The Goal: Stay on top of the exploits and hacks as fast as possible.
Sorry guys, but as a software developer and small businesses owner I find it too easy for people to say shame on MS when I see way to much pirating.
Those who pay can complain those who pirate should worry.
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi
by Namloot » Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:41 pm
Microsoft knows they will never be able to stop the pirating of thier software. They are just making users jump through more hoops. The idea is something along the lines of "locks only keep honest people out".
- Conscious*
- Posts: 2702
- Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2003 4:09 pm
by Conscious* » Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:56 pm
You can't blame microsoft, I'd be using a pirated version if i could. With Bit Torrent you can get almost anything now.
- RCinator
by RCinator » Sat Aug 06, 2005 3:32 pm
Originally posted by =ender=
How to cut down on piracy? Cut down on the cost of software. Reduce the cost, increase legit sales, and they still make money off it. I don't just mean for XP either but Office and anything else they make as well. The prices they have are freaking crazy. It's no wonder why the piracy exists in the first place.
I see - "that Ferrari's too expensive, so I should steal it". What a bogus sentiment. It's capitalism - they get to charge whatever they want, and if you can't afford it, then you don't get to use it. Period. Not having the money is _not_ justification for stealing, and please let's not fool ourselves - it *is* stealing.
by max zorin » Sat Aug 06, 2005 5:53 pm
Piracy=Illegal
Microsoft is doing the right thing in trying to keep people honest and not steal their software and the hard work of many coders and researchers in developing the products that they release.
If you think the windows validation is bad, wait until they stop providing free updates from Windows Update. That is being tossed around.
Simple solution: Do the right thing and if you want the software buy it through a legitimate vendor.
Baltar
Microsoft is doing the right thing in trying to keep people honest and not steal their software and the hard work of many coders and researchers in developing the products that they release.
If you think the windows validation is bad, wait until they stop providing free updates from Windows Update. That is being tossed around.
Simple solution: Do the right thing and if you want the software buy it through a legitimate vendor.
Baltar
- cavalierlwt
-
- Posts: 2840
- Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 12:54 pm
by cavalierlwt » Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:38 pm
I do agree with M$s anti-piracy measures, I think its the most effective (within reason) safeguard that I can think of. Morally I'm fine with naturally. But..to play devil's advocate regarding pricing...
MS has been accused of and found guilty of monopolistic practices, thus giving them a situation where if you own a computer, you virtually have to have their product (not totally true, I know). Kind of like being the only company to own penicillin and thus charging $20 a pill because they know in a life or death situation, people will cough it up. Of course this just refers to their pricing policies.
Naturally, my argument is full of holes in some respects, with other OSs/Office suites like Linux and Open Office. Then again the open source route isn't really viable for many small businesses who are the mercy of M$ pricing because of M$ dominance in the OS field.
I give M$ credit, they've been a lttle more responsive with their pricing schemes. Student edition and things like that brought many versions of M$ products down to $99 (programming languages, office suites, ect). Linux has certainly been forcing their hand in a lot other countries as well. And next year, we get Intel based Mac capable of running Windows (unsupported for now) and OSX. I think we 'll see the $99 full edition or home edition of Windows when that happens.
MS has been accused of and found guilty of monopolistic practices, thus giving them a situation where if you own a computer, you virtually have to have their product (not totally true, I know). Kind of like being the only company to own penicillin and thus charging $20 a pill because they know in a life or death situation, people will cough it up. Of course this just refers to their pricing policies.
Naturally, my argument is full of holes in some respects, with other OSs/Office suites like Linux and Open Office. Then again the open source route isn't really viable for many small businesses who are the mercy of M$ pricing because of M$ dominance in the OS field.
I give M$ credit, they've been a lttle more responsive with their pricing schemes. Student edition and things like that brought many versions of M$ products down to $99 (programming languages, office suites, ect). Linux has certainly been forcing their hand in a lot other countries as well. And next year, we get Intel based Mac capable of running Windows (unsupported for now) and OSX. I think we 'll see the $99 full edition or home edition of Windows when that happens.
Failing to plead
with a throat full of dust
Life falls asleep
in a fetal position.
with a throat full of dust
Life falls asleep
in a fetal position.
- beavermatic
-
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:49 pm
- Location: Newark, NJ
by beavermatic » Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:52 pm
what i've been trying to say all along is Micro$oft spends all of its time anymore working on anti-piracy measures, and not want the need to focus on... the customers.
They want to make me validate windows? they want me to activate? Fine, but dont sit there and try to use the lame avoidaince of the fact that they preach activation and validation gives "genuine users discounts and special offers".
Get straight to the damn point. We know what it is. It's anti-piracy meausres, not offers, deals and "oops, you may have typed in your product key incorrectley 50,000x now [and it was never issued by microsoft] so contact the person you bought it from for yipppeee times to get things straightened out]"
Give me a break. They would save more money and prevent piracy by doing one thing. Getting your name, your number, your address, you driver's license number, product id, and cd key for a permanent validation. That way, you pull a stunt, your in a world of legal hurt. And why not? its cheaper, more secure and spends less time with crappy half-assed anti-piracy measures that try to say they are something else when they arent. and dont make it optional. And I'm being serious.
That will solve most of your problem. Of course, people will still find a way around it. But then again, people will find away around anything.
On the other hand, they dont need OS sales to survive from home users. As a matter of fact, the money they make from home users sales of Microsoft software is pocket change to them. They SHOULD make it free for home use, and charge for techincal support and such.
but they probably wont. and thats why they will eventually "meet their fate" from greed. Linux is becoming stronger, more compatible and far more trusting and easier to use than ever, and even most support is free. It's just a matter of time before Microsoft goes the way of the square wheel...
EDIT: oh yes, this is coming from the mouth of a comptia A+/N+/Linux+ and Microsoft MCP/MCSA/MCSE + .NET professional, too. nearly $3500 spent in the mircosoft course alone, and people wonder why i dislike microsoft.
They want to make me validate windows? they want me to activate? Fine, but dont sit there and try to use the lame avoidaince of the fact that they preach activation and validation gives "genuine users discounts and special offers".
Get straight to the damn point. We know what it is. It's anti-piracy meausres, not offers, deals and "oops, you may have typed in your product key incorrectley 50,000x now [and it was never issued by microsoft] so contact the person you bought it from for yipppeee times to get things straightened out]"
Give me a break. They would save more money and prevent piracy by doing one thing. Getting your name, your number, your address, you driver's license number, product id, and cd key for a permanent validation. That way, you pull a stunt, your in a world of legal hurt. And why not? its cheaper, more secure and spends less time with crappy half-assed anti-piracy measures that try to say they are something else when they arent. and dont make it optional. And I'm being serious.
That will solve most of your problem. Of course, people will still find a way around it. But then again, people will find away around anything.
On the other hand, they dont need OS sales to survive from home users. As a matter of fact, the money they make from home users sales of Microsoft software is pocket change to them. They SHOULD make it free for home use, and charge for techincal support and such.
but they probably wont. and thats why they will eventually "meet their fate" from greed. Linux is becoming stronger, more compatible and far more trusting and easier to use than ever, and even most support is free. It's just a matter of time before Microsoft goes the way of the square wheel...
EDIT: oh yes, this is coming from the mouth of a comptia A+/N+/Linux+ and Microsoft MCP/MCSA/MCSE + .NET professional, too. nearly $3500 spent in the mircosoft course alone, and people wonder why i dislike microsoft.
I be Strokin'!!!
- LordShard
by LordShard » Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:38 am
Linux isn't as great as people think. It crashes about as often as winXP depending what flavor. ANything a home user would use, will crash just as often if not more than winXP.Originally posted by beavermatic
but they probably wont. and thats why they will eventually "meet their fate" from greed. Linux is becoming stronger, more compatible and far more trusting and easier to use than ever, and even most support is free. It's just a matter of time before Microsoft goes the way of the square wheel...
EDIT: oh yes, this is coming from the mouth of a comptia A+/N+/Linux+ and Microsoft MCP/MCSA/MCSE + .NET professional, too. nearly $3500 spent in the mircosoft course alone, and people wonder why i dislike microsoft.
Mandrake, Suse and fedora- cavalierlwt
-
- Posts: 2840
- Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 12:54 pm
by cavalierlwt » Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:04 am
Those of you pissed at Microsoft, you're gonna want to keep on eye on how this plays out.
http://www.ofb.biz/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=380&mode=&order=0&thold=0
Right now, it looks like Apple isn't going to cave in and use Palladium. If that's the case, then M$ is going to blow it's foot off when they fully implement it.
Palladium is hardware based cryptology they Microsoft can use to allow some programs and not others to run on the computer (Trusted Computing Platform). It will basically mean the end of open source and amateur programs as we know it, as *every* program will need M$s permission before it will run. Also, this will lock down uncontrolled copying of media tighter than a drum. There won't be some easy patch or hack to overcome this, we are talking a mixture of hardware and software public key encryption technology. It will be brutal.
Now if Apple does't use it, and you know Linux won't, M$ could really derail itself in a spectacular fashion. The average Joe may not find Linux to be their cup of tea, but OSX should be seen a viable alternate (M$ Office runs on, as well as IE, and several of the 'major' professional programs--photoshop etc). People will potentially have a choice between Apple branded Intel platforms that can be used they way people are used to using them or the severely restricted M$ platform.
M$ is now back at it with Palladium, now they've renamed it to some acronym and they are going to release some components of it in Longhorn. I think it will start out innocent at first, with the ability for the user to turn it on and off, and it will offer some benefits, like no more spam, no more viruses or spyware...I mean zero!. But you can bet eventually that cage door will swing shut and lock. Imagine some of the DRM implications: cds and dvds that only play a certain number of times, etc.
http://www.ofb.biz/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=380&mode=&order=0&thold=0
Right now, it looks like Apple isn't going to cave in and use Palladium. If that's the case, then M$ is going to blow it's foot off when they fully implement it.
Palladium is hardware based cryptology they Microsoft can use to allow some programs and not others to run on the computer (Trusted Computing Platform). It will basically mean the end of open source and amateur programs as we know it, as *every* program will need M$s permission before it will run. Also, this will lock down uncontrolled copying of media tighter than a drum. There won't be some easy patch or hack to overcome this, we are talking a mixture of hardware and software public key encryption technology. It will be brutal.
Now if Apple does't use it, and you know Linux won't, M$ could really derail itself in a spectacular fashion. The average Joe may not find Linux to be their cup of tea, but OSX should be seen a viable alternate (M$ Office runs on, as well as IE, and several of the 'major' professional programs--photoshop etc). People will potentially have a choice between Apple branded Intel platforms that can be used they way people are used to using them or the severely restricted M$ platform.
M$ is now back at it with Palladium, now they've renamed it to some acronym and they are going to release some components of it in Longhorn. I think it will start out innocent at first, with the ability for the user to turn it on and off, and it will offer some benefits, like no more spam, no more viruses or spyware...I mean zero!. But you can bet eventually that cage door will swing shut and lock. Imagine some of the DRM implications: cds and dvds that only play a certain number of times, etc.
Failing to plead
with a throat full of dust
Life falls asleep
in a fetal position.
with a throat full of dust
Life falls asleep
in a fetal position.
- Spirit of Me
-
- Posts: 306
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 8:00 pm
- Location: lost in West Virginia
by Spirit of Me » Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:06 am
What was once called Palladium is nothing but a Digital Rights Management system. It does not kill GPL, Open source or home brew software at all. The hardware additions allow authentic key checking (which by the way, most manufacturers will laugh at).
As far as the software, hasn't anyone now noticed when you download and executable, from any source, that Windows XP SP2 makes you confirm it execution? That in part of what was once called Palladium's software script.
There is way too much conspiracy theories behind MS and its agents. Granted they are out for a larger market and more money. Sometimes they cross the line, I admit. The goal however, of products like Palladium was/is to stop viruses and Trojan infections. Those of you in the IT or computer repair business surely realize regardless of the warnings and media hype about spy-ware, viruses and Trojans people just won't use common sense. Enter software security engineers to try to come up with soulotions. Some will fail, others will be adapted , yet again some others will lead to new innovative ideas on computer software security.
I do not want anyone to think that criticisms of Ms is not good. I often criticize many aspects of their businesses practices as well as their mandatory software precedence and standards.
It comes down to if you don't like something don't use it. Those in software marketing often say "When sells drop a new versions is due".
As far as the software, hasn't anyone now noticed when you download and executable, from any source, that Windows XP SP2 makes you confirm it execution? That in part of what was once called Palladium's software script.
There is way too much conspiracy theories behind MS and its agents. Granted they are out for a larger market and more money. Sometimes they cross the line, I admit. The goal however, of products like Palladium was/is to stop viruses and Trojan infections. Those of you in the IT or computer repair business surely realize regardless of the warnings and media hype about spy-ware, viruses and Trojans people just won't use common sense. Enter software security engineers to try to come up with soulotions. Some will fail, others will be adapted , yet again some others will lead to new innovative ideas on computer software security.
I do not want anyone to think that criticisms of Ms is not good. I often criticize many aspects of their businesses practices as well as their mandatory software precedence and standards.
It comes down to if you don't like something don't use it. Those in software marketing often say "When sells drop a new versions is due".
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi
by Tommy Boy » Sun Aug 07, 2005 9:55 pm
I validated today, but wish that I knew more about this...I w3as very surprised to see this, but since my copy of XP is legal, I wasn't worried about it.
Still, it did seem a bit big brother-ish...
Still, it did seem a bit big brother-ish...
- cavalierlwt
-
- Posts: 2840
- Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 12:54 pm
by cavalierlwt » Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:33 pm
Originally posted by Spirit of Me
What was once called Palladium is nothing but a Digital Rights Management system. It does not kill GPL, Open source or home brew software at all. The hardware additions allow authentic key checking (which by the way, most manufacturers will laugh at).
Palladium is NOT DRM, but it does allow for a method of DRM. Public Key encryption require two keys to cooperate, a public and a private key. One key will be held and processed in hardware,the other key will come via the software. This would allow M$ in cooperation with, let's say Sony, so that to play Sony CDs and DVDs will require A)Palladium hardware with proper key and B) Sony software with proper key. This would work not only at the level of file, but at the level of the CPU, in regards to what code runs and what code does not (this where they will get their defense to viruses and spyware).
M$ says that they won't restrict Open Source and such, but this is an act of faith on our part. If someone said they were going to protect you by putting you in a box that locks from the outside and only they have the key, you have to trust that person.
This is M$'s response to the massive pirating done in China, but we *may* all be forced to deal with it. It is 10,000,000 times more powerful then their existing activation/validation scheme.
As far as most of the hardware makers are concerned, they are onboard with this scheme.
Here you go, don't take my word for it's possible impact on Open Source software, homebrew software, read what Richard Stallman said about it.
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html
- Spirit of Me
-
- Posts: 306
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 8:00 pm
- Location: lost in West Virginia
by Spirit of Me » Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:01 pm
Originally posted by cavalierlwt
......read what Richard Stallman said about it.
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html
You had me questioning my own co-operation with Microsoft until you tossed in Richard
Also know as Mr. Conspiracy. I loved his boycott on Harry Potter this year and Star wars and anything Lucas last year
Again, time will tell.
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi
30 posts
• Page 2 of 2 • 1, 2
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests