A scary read about NO

[cavalierlwt Profile]

I have a theory, kinda based on my own 9/11 experience. I think when we created Homeland Security and tried to upgrade the Emergeny Response team, we actually screwed them up completely--even with the best of intentions. What I think happened is these agencies overplanned, with a bunch of massive, overly-detailed, rigidly structured plans. They put people in who lived and died by the plans, and micromanaged everything. In real life, nothing goes according to plan, you have to shoot from the hip at times, improvise, abort parts of your plans in favor of other solutions that evolve moment to moment. When things went off track, these micro-managers couldn't deal with it, they basically froze up at whatever stage of their rosy scenario plan they were currently on. In pro-football they refer to a new player who 'overthinks' a play and freezes up as 'Paralysis of Analysis'.
A plan is fine, but you have to let the ground level workers have input and you have to be prepared to change the plan, reverse it if necessary. About 36 hour into it, max, they should have said 'Whoa, keeping the people in the SuperDome is a bad idea, let's change gears and get them out instead'. A lot of assets went unused because they weren't part of the BIG PLAN.
The other thing that points to micro-management is the fact that they didn't have 10,000 Natl Guard standing by a day before the storm hit. It looks like they calculated how much security/manpower they would need, and deployed exactly that much. This is kind of a business-like approach. Taking the military approach would have meant 'hope for the best, prepare for the worst'. Better to have too much manpower than not enough.

[PraiseA||ah Profile]

Originally posted by cavalierlwt
Here's why FEMA, Homeland Security, Bush, LA state govt, N.O. govt is getting and deserves to get a ration of shit: This was our hour of need, their chance to shine, and they blew it. NO EXCUSES. It's a natural disaster, yes, no one caused that, but these people were hired to deal with things like this. These people are supposed to be the 'best and brightest', no 'I'm only human, I can only do so much, blah blah blah'
When they run for election, or apply for the jobs, they tout their intellect, leadership, foresight, and judgment. Well, this week they were supposed to prove it, and they failed. Again, no excuses. If you or I failed to do our jobs, we get fired, or at least get called up the carpet for a tongue lashing, NO EXCUSES.
They are going to have to deal with it, and heads should roll.

Absolutely! There is NO excuse for the amount of time that went by before a response took place. The President should have at least done a fly-by or a speech or SOMETHING. It is in times of disaster that Presidents that people look for help from government. The government of the United States of America, the number one world power has managed this disaster no better than a third world country would.
Accountability is something I as an American citizen and a voter demand of my public servents/officials.

[Allister Fiend Profile Website]

Originally posted by cavalierlwt
In this, and about thousand other areas we need to start demanding better from our govt. We have to listen to them every 2 or 4 years crow about how great they are. We need to treat them like Trump treats apprentices...Your Fired!

Agreed, our government is reactive (as most governments are these days), no one makes the hard decisions ahead of time anymore, like a true leader would.

Originally posted by PraiseA||ah
Open your eyes and see the truth. Don't start a flame war either. I don't want to get ugly on you.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/katrina.response/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/orleans.levees/index.html

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001051313

Need more?

Wait...hold on...damn...I have to clean my pants now, I've been scared shitless! and probably will not sleep well tonight:) (no flame war here, as this will be my last post on the subject)

as for the cnn articles, please, aren't they they ones who made a deal with saddam hussain to not report what was really happening as long as he would like them stay in Iraq.

I'm actually looking for the truth, you are not, it is obvious you are not looking at this situation with an open mind, you have your mind set on blaming someone you do not like and it does not matter if anyone else might be at fault.

Once again, I'm not giving Bush a complete pass, A lot of people are to blame for this situation, but I happen to believe that the local goverment let this situation get out of control with poor planning and poor leadership.

Originally posted by deathBOB
Some excerpts I thought were interesting:


http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001051313

Now sure, some of the responsibility is the local government, but if the Corp. of Engineers had the money it needed things could have been better.

Of course, only after do we complain about this.

I say judge this administration on what it does afterward, and so far is hasn't impressed me.

DeathBOB, I understand what you are getting at but like I have been trying to get across to everyone is that Bush could have given the local government 1 billion dollars and it would not have mattered, the levee would not have been upgraded to withstand a CAT 4 or 5 hurricane, the money would have disappeared into someones pockets and never put toward the upgrade, I know, I've lived there, many presidents have come and gone and plenty of money has been given to the corps of engineers over the last few decades for levee upgrades and it has never been done, it does not matter what president was in office.

Okay, thats enough for me, sorry to bore you guys, gotta play BF2 as I'm close to unlocking my next weapon.

Later,

Allister Fiend

[PraiseA||ah Profile]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050904/ap_on_re_mi_ea/katrina_mideast_hk4
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/03/katrina.world.aid/index.html

It is heartening to see that many other countries are stepping up and offering us assistance. Even if the cynical side of me says at least half of those countries are doing so for political reasons and not just humanitarian ones.

[Hash Profile]

Well at least people are helping, i know the US has helped alot of people in times of need, maybe they're returning the favor.

[Starlite Profile]

Here's a good read...lol

How SHOULD a President Respond to Impending Disaster

In September 1999, Hurricane Floyd -- a category 3 -- was bearing down the
Carolinas and Virginia.

President Clinton was in Christchurch, New Zealand - meeting with President
Jiang of China (you know, actually working). He made the proclamation that
only Presidents can make and declared the areas affected by Floyd "Federal
Disaster Areas" so the National Guard and Military can begin to mobilize. Then he cut short his meetings overseas and flew home to coordinate the rescue efforts. This all one day BEFORE a Cat-3 hit the coast. That is how you do it.

How about this dope's own father during Hurricane Andrew? Once again,
President Bush (41) -- August, 1992 -- was in the midst of a brutal campaign
for re-election. Yet, he cut off his campaigning the day before and went to
Washington where he martialed the largest military operation on US soil in
history. He sent in 7,000 National Guard and 22,000 regular military
personnel, and all the gear to begin the clean up within hours after Andrew
passed through Florida. 'Cause, you know, those people and their stuff was
actually where it belonged, rather than being used for insurgent
target-practice halfway around the world in a vain effort to make Iraq safe
for Iranian takeover.


In August of 1969 when Cat-5 Hurricane Camille hit roughly the same area as
Katrina, President Nixon had already readied the National Guard and ordered
all Gulf rescue vessels and equipment from Tampa and Houston to follow the
Hurricane in. There were over 1,000 regular military with two dozen
helicopters to assist the Coast Guard and National Guard within hours after
the skies cleared.

Bush 43 - August 2005 - Cat-5 Hurricane Katrina bears down on New Orleans
and the Mississippi gulf. Both states are down nearly 8,000 National Guard
troops because they are in Iraq -- with most of the rescue gear needed. Bush
is on vacation. The day before Katrina makes landfall, Bush rides his bike
for two hours. The day she hits, he goes to Johnnie McCain's birthday party;
and lies to old people about the multi-billion-dollar pharmaceutical company
welfare boondoggle. People are dying, the largest port of entry in the
United States (and fifth largest in the World) is under attack. Troops and
supplies are desperately needed. The levees are cracking and the emergency
1-1/2 ton sandbags are ready, but there aren't enough helicopters or pilots
to set them before the levees fail. The mayor of New Orleans begs for
Federal coordination, but there is none, and the sandbagging never gets
done. So Bush -- naturally -- goes to San Diego to play guitar with country
singer and lie to the military about how Iraq is just exactly like WWII. The
levees give way, filling New Orleans with water, sewage, oil and chemicals.
Ten percent of all US exports, and 50% of all agricultural exports ordinarly
go through this port. It is totally destroyed. Bush decides he'll end his
vacation a couple of days early -- TOMORROW --BECAUSE HE HAS TICKETS TO A
PADRES GAME! He goes back to the Fake Farm in Crawford, with every intention
of doing something on WEDNESDAY about this disaster that happened starting
last Sunday night.

[Rand0m Profile]

Originally posted by Starlite
Here's a good read...lol

How SHOULD a President Respond to Impending Disaster

In September 1999, Hurricane Floyd -- a category 3 -- was bearing down the
Carolinas and Virginia.

President Clinton was in Christchurch, New Zealand - meeting with President
Jiang of China (you know, actually working). He made the proclamation that
only Presidents can make and declared the areas affected by Floyd "Federal
Disaster Areas" so the National Guard and Military can begin to mobilize. Then he cut short his meetings overseas and flew home to coordinate the rescue efforts. This all one day BEFORE a Cat-3 hit the coast. That is how you do it.

How about this dope's own father during Hurricane Andrew? Once again,
President Bush (41) -- August, 1992 -- was in the midst of a brutal campaign
for re-election. Yet, he cut off his campaigning the day before and went to
Washington where he martialed the largest military operation on US soil in
history. He sent in 7,000 National Guard and 22,000 regular military
personnel, and all the gear to begin the clean up within hours after Andrew
passed through Florida. 'Cause, you know, those people and their stuff was
actually where it belonged, rather than being used for insurgent
target-practice halfway around the world in a vain effort to make Iraq safe
for Iranian takeover.


In August of 1969 when Cat-5 Hurricane Camille hit roughly the same area as
Katrina, President Nixon had already readied the National Guard and ordered
all Gulf rescue vessels and equipment from Tampa and Houston to follow the
Hurricane in. There were over 1,000 regular military with two dozen
helicopters to assist the Coast Guard and National Guard within hours after
the skies cleared.

Bush 43 - August 2005 - Cat-5 Hurricane Katrina bears down on New Orleans
and the Mississippi gulf. Both states are down nearly 8,000 National Guard
troops because they are in Iraq -- with most of the rescue gear needed. Bush
is on vacation. The day before Katrina makes landfall, Bush rides his bike
for two hours. The day she hits, he goes to Johnnie McCain's birthday party;
and lies to old people about the multi-billion-dollar pharmaceutical company
welfare boondoggle. People are dying, the largest port of entry in the
United States (and fifth largest in the World) is under attack. Troops and
supplies are desperately needed. The levees are cracking and the emergency
1-1/2 ton sandbags are ready, but there aren't enough helicopters or pilots
to set them before the levees fail. The mayor of New Orleans begs for
Federal coordination, but there is none, and the sandbagging never gets
done. So Bush -- naturally -- goes to San Diego to play guitar with country
singer and lie to the military about how Iraq is just exactly like WWII. The
levees give way, filling New Orleans with water, sewage, oil and chemicals.
Ten percent of all US exports, and 50% of all agricultural exports ordinarly
go through this port. It is totally destroyed. Bush decides he'll end his
vacation a couple of days early -- TOMORROW --BECAUSE HE HAS TICKETS TO A
PADRES GAME! He goes back to the Fake Farm in Crawford, with every intention
of doing something on WEDNESDAY about this disaster that happened starting
last Sunday night.

good find, thank you.

[cavalierlwt Profile]

I can't confirm this easily, but I was watching the Bill Mahrer show on HBO, and someone mentioned that the head of FEMA was a close friend of Bush, had no related experience, but just got the job because he was Bush's friend from back in his college days.
I might have misheard that, maybe none of this true, I don't know. I'm checking the internet and trying to find out a little bit about him, his name is Michael D. Brown.

[cavalierlwt Profile]

Actually Brown is Bush's second FEMA director, the first resigned after one year. here's info on Bush's first and second (current) FEMA director.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Allbaugh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Brown

[cavalierlwt Profile]

Oh boy, This guy Brown is a real winner:
http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/myrtlebeachonline/news/politics/12554958.htm

WASHINGTON - (KRT) - From failed Republican congressional candidate to ousted "czar" of an Arabian horse association, there was little in Michael D. Brown's background to prepare him for the fury of Hurricane Katrina.

But as the head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, Brown now faces furious criticism of the federal response to the disaster that wiped out New Orleans and much of the Gulf Coast. He provoked some of it himself when he conceded that FEMA didn't know that thousands of refugees were trapped at New Orleans' convention center without food or water until officials heard it on the news.

"He's done a hell of a job, because I'm not aware of any Arabian horses being killed in this storm," said Kate Hale, former Miami-Dade emergency management chief. "The world that this man operated in and the focus of this work does not in any way translate to this. He does not have the experience."

Brown ran for Congress in 1988 and won 27 percent of the vote against Democratic incumbent Glenn English. He spent the 1990s as judges and stewards commissioner of the International Arabian Horse Association. His job was to ensure that horse-show judges followed the rules and to investigate allegations against those suspected of cheating.

"I wouldn't have regarded his position in the horse industry as a platform to where he is now," said Tom Connelly, a former association president.

Brown's ticket to FEMA was Joe Allbaugh, President Bush's 2000 campaign manager and an old friend of Brown's in Oklahoma. When Bush ran for president in 2000, Brown was ending a rocky tenure at the horse association.

Brown told several association officials that if Bush were elected, he'd be in line for a good job. When Allbaugh, who managed Bush's campaign, took over FEMA in 2001, he took Brown with him as general counsel.

"He's known Joe Allbaugh for quite some time," said Andrew Lester, an Oklahoma lawyer who's been a friend of Brown's for more than 20 years. "I think they know each other from school days. I think they did some debate type of things against each other, and worked on some Republican politics together."

Brown practiced law in Enid, Okla., a city of about 45,000, during the 1980s and was counsel to a group of businesses run by a well-known Enid family. Before that, he worked for the city of Edmond, Okla., and was an aide in the state legislature.

From 1991 until 2000, Brown earned about $100,000 a year as the chief rules enforcer of the Arabian horse association.

He was known as "The Czar" for the breadth of his power and the enthusiasm with which he wielded it, said Mary Anne Grimmell, a former association president.

The suspensions Brown delivered to those suspected of cheating resulted in several lawsuits. Although the association won the suits, they were expensive to defend, and Brown became a controversial figure.

"It was positive controversy," Connelly said. "It got word out that we were serious about enforcing our rules."

But he said Brown could be "abrasive." Others were less charitable.

"He just wouldn't follow instruction," said Bill Pennington, another former association president. "Mike was bullheaded and he was gonna do it his way. Period."

At FEMA, Brown rose from general counsel to deputy director within a year. Bush named him to succeed Allbaugh in February 2003. With FEMA now part of the Department of Homeland Security, Brown's title is undersecretary for emergency preparedness and response.

Brown's old friend Lester said the progression from horse shows to hurricanes was natural.

"A lot of what he had to do was stand in the breach in difficult, controversial situations," Lester said. "Which I think would well prepare him for his work at FEMA."

Despite the withering criticism and a promised congressional investigation of FEMA's performance, Brown still has the support of his most important constituent.

In Mobile, Ala., on Friday, Bush said the response to Katrina was unsatisfactory. But he had nothing but praise for his FEMA director. "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job," the president said.

[Starlite Profile]

Your welcome.

[Ldsmith104 Profile]

starlite you forgot obout him ordering the hurricane to hit NO in the first place

[PraiseA||ah Profile]

Originally posted by Ldsmith104
starlite you forgot obout him ordering the hurricane to hit NO in the first place

He didn't do that. He did however do the rest of what was said.

[PraiseA||ah Profile]

Resurrecting this thread...

I just watched 'Spike Lees When The Levees Broke A Requiem in Four Parts Parts'

Hell of a good documentary. Spike Lee is only heard asking questions a few times and is never seen. It's powerful, heart wrenching and infurating.

[Chacal Profile Website]

Also this:
"Despite extensive television attention, it is one of the few natural disasters in the United States that may have been understated by the coverage. The extent of the wreckage -- block after block of darkened windows and trash-strewn yards -- is simply too far-reaching to be captured in video clips."

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14535457/