Hurricane Rita !!
by PudriK » Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:51 am
Most of the meterologists I've heard asked have said that they aren't sure of global warming's role in hurricane production. They have said that there is a long term cycle, and that were are on the upswing now. (Started in '95, last one was in the 60's.) Based on that cycle, we have another ten years of high activity to look forward to. This cycle is related to warming and cooling trends in the Atlantic basin.
Sure, we are having some effect on the environment, and global warming may be a factor, but it is really to early to tell. You're forgetting that global warming talks about .1 degree warming or less per year, while global cycles in ocean temperatures can be several degrees difference.
Sure, we are having some effect on the environment, and global warming may be a factor, but it is really to early to tell. You're forgetting that global warming talks about .1 degree warming or less per year, while global cycles in ocean temperatures can be several degrees difference.
PudriK
("Pudd-rick")
Irregular player since 2003
("Pudd-rick")
Irregular player since 2003
by RCglider » Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:50 am
Do you think Mr. Sun may have just a sllight effect on climate change? Magnetic storms, sunspots, sun flares....nah, that's too logical and there's a lot of people living off of big government grants that need job security.
Ever wonder how much pollution is spewed out of one volcanic eruption? More than all of recorded history of the industrialized world. Again, too logical for pseudo-science.
Remember the oil field fires in Gulf I and the same enviro-whackos warned of catastrophic consequences....we were all DOOMED!! It still paled in comparison to a volcano.
Any of you old timers remember during the 70's in school when the doomsdayers said we were headed for an ice age?
It doesn't really matter what the weather does, there will be alarmists out there trying to make us believe that man has more influence on the weather than nature.
Understand the difference between correlation and causality, be able to predict solar/volcano ativity (that's one reason why computer models used for global warming are unreliable), and then and only then will it be possible to predict climate change. The golden rule of the process of experiment is; If a hypothesis fails the experimental test, it must be discarded. Would someone provide experimental data to support the global warming hypothesis?
The earth has had dramatic climate change throughout it's history, with periods of temperatures much higher than today. Not driving your SUV, creating world wide poverty, famine and lowering your standard of living is not going to stop it.
Ever wonder how much pollution is spewed out of one volcanic eruption? More than all of recorded history of the industrialized world. Again, too logical for pseudo-science.
Remember the oil field fires in Gulf I and the same enviro-whackos warned of catastrophic consequences....we were all DOOMED!! It still paled in comparison to a volcano.
Any of you old timers remember during the 70's in school when the doomsdayers said we were headed for an ice age?
It doesn't really matter what the weather does, there will be alarmists out there trying to make us believe that man has more influence on the weather than nature.
Understand the difference between correlation and causality, be able to predict solar/volcano ativity (that's one reason why computer models used for global warming are unreliable), and then and only then will it be possible to predict climate change. The golden rule of the process of experiment is; If a hypothesis fails the experimental test, it must be discarded. Would someone provide experimental data to support the global warming hypothesis?
The earth has had dramatic climate change throughout it's history, with periods of temperatures much higher than today. Not driving your SUV, creating world wide poverty, famine and lowering your standard of living is not going to stop it.
by CodeRed68 » Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:52 am
Here's a GREAT quote from one of the greatest comedians, George Carlin. Think about what he has to say. It is so right on. We are worried about our impact on global warming? HA
Read:
"Haven't we done enough. We're so self-important. So self-important. Everybody's gonna save something now. Save the trees. Save the bees. Save the whales. Save those snails. And the greatest arrogance of all, save the planet. What? Are these fucking people kidding me? Save the planet? We don't even know how to take care of ourselves yet. We haven't learned to take care of one another and we're gonna save the fucking planet. I'm getting tired of that shit. I'm tired of Earth Day. I'm tired of these self-righteous environmentalists. These white bourgeois liberals who think the only thing wrong with this country is there aren't enough bicycle paths. People trying to make the world safe for their Volvos. Besides environmentalists don't give a shit about the planet, they don't care about the planet. Not in the abstract they don't. You know what they're interested in? A clean place to live. They're own habitat. They're worried some day in the future they may be personally inconvenienced."
"Besides, there is nothing wrong with the planet. Nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine. The people are fucked. Difference. The planet is fine. Compared to the people the planet is doing great. Been here four and a half billion years. You ever think about the arithmetic? Planet has been here four and a half billion years and we've been here what, a hundred thousand, maybe two hundred thousand. And we've only been engaged in heavy industry for around two hundred years. Two hundred years versus four and a half billion, and we have the conceit to some how think we're a threat. That some how we're gonna put into jeopardy this beautiful little blue green ball that's just a floating around the sun. The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles, hundreds of thousands of years of bombardments by comets and asteroids and meteors, world wide floods, tidal waves, world wide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages, and we think some plastic bags and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference. The planet isn't going anywhere. We are. We're going away. Pack your shit folks. We're going away and we won't leave much of a trace either. Thank god for that. Maybe a little Styrofoam. Maybe. The planet will be here and we'll be long gone. Just another failed mutation. Just another closed end biological mistake. An evolutionary cul-des-ac. The planet will shake us off like a bad case of fleas. A surface nuisance. You want to know how the planet's doing? Ask those people in Pompeii who are frozen into position from volcano ash how the planet's doing. Want to know if the planet's alright just ask those people in Mexico City, or Armenia or a hundred other places buried under thousands of tons of earthquake rubble if they feel like a threat to a planet this week."
"The planet will be here for a long, long, long time after we're gone. It will heal itself. It will cleanse itself, because that's what it does. It's a self-correcting system. The air and the water will recover. The earth will be renewed. And if it's true plastic is not degradable, well then the planet will simply incorporate plastic in a new paradigm, the earth plus plastic. The earth doesn't share our prejudice towards plastic. Plastic came out of the earth. The earth probably sees plastic as just another one of its children. Could be the only reason why the earth allowed us to be spawned from it in the first place is it wanted plastic for itself. Didn't know how to make it, needed us. Could be the answer to our age-old egocentric, philosophical question, why are we here? Plastic asshole."
Read:
"Haven't we done enough. We're so self-important. So self-important. Everybody's gonna save something now. Save the trees. Save the bees. Save the whales. Save those snails. And the greatest arrogance of all, save the planet. What? Are these fucking people kidding me? Save the planet? We don't even know how to take care of ourselves yet. We haven't learned to take care of one another and we're gonna save the fucking planet. I'm getting tired of that shit. I'm tired of Earth Day. I'm tired of these self-righteous environmentalists. These white bourgeois liberals who think the only thing wrong with this country is there aren't enough bicycle paths. People trying to make the world safe for their Volvos. Besides environmentalists don't give a shit about the planet, they don't care about the planet. Not in the abstract they don't. You know what they're interested in? A clean place to live. They're own habitat. They're worried some day in the future they may be personally inconvenienced."
"Besides, there is nothing wrong with the planet. Nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine. The people are fucked. Difference. The planet is fine. Compared to the people the planet is doing great. Been here four and a half billion years. You ever think about the arithmetic? Planet has been here four and a half billion years and we've been here what, a hundred thousand, maybe two hundred thousand. And we've only been engaged in heavy industry for around two hundred years. Two hundred years versus four and a half billion, and we have the conceit to some how think we're a threat. That some how we're gonna put into jeopardy this beautiful little blue green ball that's just a floating around the sun. The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles, hundreds of thousands of years of bombardments by comets and asteroids and meteors, world wide floods, tidal waves, world wide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages, and we think some plastic bags and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference. The planet isn't going anywhere. We are. We're going away. Pack your shit folks. We're going away and we won't leave much of a trace either. Thank god for that. Maybe a little Styrofoam. Maybe. The planet will be here and we'll be long gone. Just another failed mutation. Just another closed end biological mistake. An evolutionary cul-des-ac. The planet will shake us off like a bad case of fleas. A surface nuisance. You want to know how the planet's doing? Ask those people in Pompeii who are frozen into position from volcano ash how the planet's doing. Want to know if the planet's alright just ask those people in Mexico City, or Armenia or a hundred other places buried under thousands of tons of earthquake rubble if they feel like a threat to a planet this week."
"The planet will be here for a long, long, long time after we're gone. It will heal itself. It will cleanse itself, because that's what it does. It's a self-correcting system. The air and the water will recover. The earth will be renewed. And if it's true plastic is not degradable, well then the planet will simply incorporate plastic in a new paradigm, the earth plus plastic. The earth doesn't share our prejudice towards plastic. Plastic came out of the earth. The earth probably sees plastic as just another one of its children. Could be the only reason why the earth allowed us to be spawned from it in the first place is it wanted plastic for itself. Didn't know how to make it, needed us. Could be the answer to our age-old egocentric, philosophical question, why are we here? Plastic asshole."
thanks to Spirit of Me for the sig!
by Chacal » Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:39 pm
Of course this is true. Even if the planet turned into a poisonous gas ball like Venus, it would still be a planet. Of course in a million years the passage of humans will be long forgotten.
The problem is we don't want to live on a poisonous gas ball. We want to keep the place liveable while we exist. We don't want to cease to exist BECAUSE of our activities.
Let's say we kill all mammals and birds. It's not gonna hurt insects much. But do we want to live surrounded by only insects?
Let's say we continue destroying forests and producing CO2. In a few hundred years there will be no more oxygen and the planet will be a furnace. We will all die, but it will be a great relief to know it will all start over again after a few million years.
The problem is we don't want to live on a poisonous gas ball. We want to keep the place liveable while we exist. We don't want to cease to exist BECAUSE of our activities.
Let's say we kill all mammals and birds. It's not gonna hurt insects much. But do we want to live surrounded by only insects?
Let's say we continue destroying forests and producing CO2. In a few hundred years there will be no more oxygen and the planet will be a furnace. We will all die, but it will be a great relief to know it will all start over again after a few million years.
Chacal
[SIZE="1"][color="LightBlue"]Reporter: "Mr Gandhi, what do you think of western civilization?"
Gandhi: "I think it would be a great idea."[/color][/SIZE]
[SIZE="1"][color="LightBlue"]Reporter: "Mr Gandhi, what do you think of western civilization?"
Gandhi: "I think it would be a great idea."[/color][/SIZE]
by CodeRed68 » Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:11 pm
Good point Chacal. But the reason i posted that was in response to argument about global warming. Are we the cause? Is is a natural process? Who really knows?
The point was, how arrogant are we to think we could actually have an effect on the planet. Personally, i think if anything, the deforestation that we do does the biggest damage. Even so, it is just damaging ourselves and our animal friends.
The point was, how arrogant are we to think we could actually have an effect on the planet. Personally, i think if anything, the deforestation that we do does the biggest damage. Even so, it is just damaging ourselves and our animal friends.
thanks to Spirit of Me for the sig!
- cavalierlwt
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by cavalierlwt » Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:53 pm
Even if we aren't going to cause global upheaval in the near future, the writing is still on the wall: we need to kick the fossil fuel habit. When we finally do, we're going to have a big laugh at how easy it was to, and wonder why the hell it took so long in the first place. Less pollution, independance of foreign oil are good enough reasons for me. If it turns out that we avoid global catastrophe, well that's just icing on the cake.
Failing to plead
with a throat full of dust
Life falls asleep
in a fetal position.
with a throat full of dust
Life falls asleep
in a fetal position.
- Mr.Irritation
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by Mr.Irritation » Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:00 pm
Well ladies I may have lucked out. Rita has turned northeast of me. Where she is heading is about 150 miles away, an I'm on the back side of the storm. So might only get a some rain out of the deal.
- cavalierlwt
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by cavalierlwt » Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:15 pm
Originally posted by Mr.Irritation
Well ladies I may have lucked out. Rita has turned northeast of me. Where she is heading is about 150 miles away, an I'm on the back side of the storm. So might only get a some rain out of the deal.
Cheers to your good fortune!
by Siren » Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:52 pm
Originally posted by CodeRed68
Here's a GREAT quote from one of the greatest comedians, George Carlin. Think about what he has to say. It is so right on. We are worried about our impact on global warming? HA
George Carlin is hilarious. Almost as hilarious as people who think that they can/will save the planet.
I left my panties with B.J. Blaskowitz.
- cavalierlwt
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by cavalierlwt » Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:59 pm
Hey, I love the planet Earth, I keep all my stuff there!
Failing to plead
with a throat full of dust
Life falls asleep
in a fetal position.
with a throat full of dust
Life falls asleep
in a fetal position.
by Chacal » Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:32 pm
Originally posted by cavalierlwt
Less pollution, independance of foreign oil are good enough reasons for me.
Not to mention dwindling reserves. We're sucking the bottom right now, and when it's gone, it's gone. How we power 747s without fuel is gonna be an interesting question.
Chacal
[SIZE="1"][color="LightBlue"]Reporter: "Mr Gandhi, what do you think of western civilization?"
Gandhi: "I think it would be a great idea."[/color][/SIZE]
[SIZE="1"][color="LightBlue"]Reporter: "Mr Gandhi, what do you think of western civilization?"
Gandhi: "I think it would be a great idea."[/color][/SIZE]
- Colonel Ingus
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by Colonel Ingus » Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:57 pm
BUZZKILL!!!!
Sorry Chacal and others of the "environmental" ilk but you are INCORRECT!
There is "global warming" but it has been occurring over the past 13,000 years or so. Too assume Human beings are causing an escalation is subject to ridicule.
Every bit of "global warming" science has been questioned and found wanting as far the effects human have on it.
People run around shouting "Kyoto" and when you ask about the Maunder Minumum you get "ah duh?" in a response.
Does this mean we should go ahead and pollute like we don't care? Of course not.
What it does mean is we should understand things before going off half cocked with so called solutions when we don't even know what the problem is.
We should get off of oil (although you WAAYYYY underestimate what's available. More than 75% of the oil in so-called "tapped out" wells in the Continental US remain and we have the technology to get it.)
We should develop Fusion power as quite possible the cleanest power source available. Baring zero point energy of course.
We should have fuel cell cars. We used that technology to put men on the moon 36 freaking years ago and we can't make a mere car run on it?
But thats not because of the "environment" thats because we can, it's smart, and why not error on the side of caution?
Here's a little report for you environmentalists. If you can figure out the connection we can discuss things further. If not you get dismissed as a ideological fool.
http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/newsroom/20050920a.html
Sorry Chacal and others of the "environmental" ilk but you are INCORRECT!
There is "global warming" but it has been occurring over the past 13,000 years or so. Too assume Human beings are causing an escalation is subject to ridicule.
Every bit of "global warming" science has been questioned and found wanting as far the effects human have on it.
People run around shouting "Kyoto" and when you ask about the Maunder Minumum you get "ah duh?" in a response.
Does this mean we should go ahead and pollute like we don't care? Of course not.
What it does mean is we should understand things before going off half cocked with so called solutions when we don't even know what the problem is.
We should get off of oil (although you WAAYYYY underestimate what's available. More than 75% of the oil in so-called "tapped out" wells in the Continental US remain and we have the technology to get it.)
We should develop Fusion power as quite possible the cleanest power source available. Baring zero point energy of course.
We should have fuel cell cars. We used that technology to put men on the moon 36 freaking years ago and we can't make a mere car run on it?
But thats not because of the "environment" thats because we can, it's smart, and why not error on the side of caution?
Here's a little report for you environmentalists. If you can figure out the connection we can discuss things further. If not you get dismissed as a ideological fool.
http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/newsroom/20050920a.html
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." ... Benjamin Franklin
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