Who's next after Saddam?

by **Rule of Wrist** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 2:12 pm

Nothing is worse than war?

How about slavery? Torture? Watching your family being killed before you? Seeing your entire race wiped out?

Many people prefer dying in war to dying in these ways. Many people prefer dying in war to prevent these things or stop these things.

Apparently, you would rather turn a blind eye....

by **Doug the Unforgiven** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 2:23 pm

Originally posted by Rule of Wrist
Nothing is worse than war?

How about slavery? Torture? Watching your family being killed before you? Seeing your entire race wiped out?

Many people prefer dying in war to dying in these ways. Many people prefer dying in war to prevent these things or stop these things.

Apparently, you would rather turn a blind eye....

Well said.

by **[WEF]Herr Renz** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 2:37 pm

slavery, torture, watching your famillie get killed before you...

that are the thinks that happen IN WAR...

i said it soemwhere, i hate war cause it's the combination of every crime... war is not only dying as a soldier by a bullet... the population dyes too on more terrible ways...

by **bayotanzk** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 2:53 pm

No one is saying the iraqi situation is fair. Leave sadam there and it is terrible and people will die. We go in with troops and things are bad also for civilians. MY point again. Have more iraqi citizens died at the hands of sadam or with the allied campaign? One of the two is going to have less civilian casualties. Do you know who has killed more? sadam or the Coalition troops. If you know the answer than is it not better to save lives. One life saved. Is it not worth it. They are my countrymen fighting and not yours. Is one life worth it?

by **bayotanzk** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 2:55 pm

Salvery, torture, and watching your family get killed are regular occurances in iraq. They also cut out toungs and rape children in front of their parents.

by **[WEF]Herr Renz** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 2:59 pm

and btw. i just watched my biased news: there where two important thinks they said:

- lots of Iraqi people that die are because of their own defence systems... they are a bit old and the shelves of the grenades fall back on the city and injury people...

(so they don't just tell us what we wonna know or something like that)

- about the money ($20 billion) bush asked for "human aid"
he asked $75 million: $63 million for the war (weapons etc.)
$8 billion for human aid from what only $2.5 billion is for iraq and the rest for the countries like Koeweit, Jordany,... another $4 billion is for rebuilding...
actually, Bush asked to the UN to pay for the rebuild of IRAQ !!! while it is his war (and the uk's one) so THEy have to rebuild everything and take care of population...
well it seems that he cares A LOT for the iraqi people...

by **[WEF]Herr Renz** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 3:03 pm

nobody knows if those tortures happen... probably to some people... but not only in Iraq, also in the Israel/palestina problem probably... and btw. i thought bush went it cause Iraq has mdw's... if the torturing is a reasson he has another 40 war's on his list... and he want solve it if i just takes saddam away... (and he 's telling he only want to do that...)

by **bayotanzk** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 3:08 pm

Operation iraqi freedom

by **bayotanzk** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 3:10 pm

Renz, you have not answered question. Have more iraqis been killed by sadam or by the coalition armies? rough even very rough estimates would be fine.

by **Cpl. Bingham** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 4:57 pm

I hate to quote Mr. Spock here, but "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

If it were to mean peace for millions of Iraqi citizens, the unfortunate deaths of a small group of them is understandable.

by **Folic_Acid** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 5:11 pm

Originally posted by [WEF]Herr Renz
- about the money ($20 billion) bush asked for "human aid"
he asked $75 million: $63 million for the war (weapons etc.)
$8 billion for human aid from what only $2.5 billion is for iraq and the rest for the countries like Koeweit, Jordany,... another $4 billion is for rebuilding...

Where are you getting these figures from? The latest information that I have seen (and I have the very latest information) says that President Bush is estimating that the costs of this war will cost an estimated $80 billion. That figure includes the costs of rebuilding Iraq.

Originally posted by [WEF]Herr Renz
...actually, Bush asked to the UN to pay for the rebuild of IRAQ !!! while it is his war (and the uk's one) so THEy have to rebuild everything and take care of population...
well it seems that he cares A LOT for the iraqi people...

Actually, we have not asked the UN to pay for the rebuilding of Iraq. In fact, the US and the rest of the Coalition intend to pay for the rebuilding ourselves. It is the French that have demanded that the UN be in charge of any rebuilding, and that the involvement of the US be as small as possible. The US and her allies are fully prepared to bear the cost and obligation of the rebuilding.

Originally posted by [WEF]Herr Renz
...nobody knows if those tortures happen... probably to some people...

Now you can know too. I refer you to a post I made on another thread, as well as this particular editorial from the Times of London that graphically details examples of torture.

by **[WEF]Herr Renz** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 9:00 am

who ever made more victimes i don't care... i don't know either... nobody knows... but the fact that america makes them too by fighting a war that wasn't needed makes them in anyway as guilty as Saddam... (i'm not saying i like it to see Saddam ruling Iraq but i like it more that i see Bush ruling america)

about the money i've from the news and like you see he has only $2.5 billion left for Iraqi people...
(btw. i made a mistake in it: the last $4 billion aren't for rebuilding but for the Safty in America itself... so he hasn't ANY thing over for Iraq...)

and of course we in europe are a little better in humanity and if Bush is a too big criminel to take his responsibility to rebuild Iraq after he destroyed it we will help Iraq instead of first discussing with America for so many years... there are actually still countries that care about human lives...

and about the torturing... it is what one person tells... doesn't means its true... and they are talking about Saddam's youngest son being there... so it is a statement from someone that you can say "betrayed" Saddam cause it used to be a person they trusted... someone that participated in those torturings... so not really a believable person...

by **Xenius** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 9:20 am

Originally posted by [WEF]Herr Renz
(i'm not saying i like it to see Saddam ruling Iraq but i like it more that i see Bush ruling america)

<Begin Severe Sarcasm>

I agree completely Herr Renz you are very smart and make me realize how dumb America is. What fools to elect a president that kills even more of his people then Saddam. Bush is guilty of ethnically cleansing many of the minority communities in the south. In 1988 he gassed thousands of the indians in the southwest. He constantly uses severe methods of torture. I watched my cousins dog get put in a machine for shredding plastic, feet first so he could hear himself bark in pain as he died.

All of these crimes commited by Bush are even worse than Saddam! He should be impeached then executed!

<End Severe Sarcasm>

Herr Renz, I did not vote for Bush, nor will I vote for him in the next election. I don't like the fact that we're at war but I support our troops because they give their lives for us.

To say that you'd rather see Saddam ruling Iraq than Bush ruling America is nothing less than idiocy. I was willing to take some of your arguments and accept them, but I now have good reason to think you're imbalanced.

by **bayotanzk** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 9:28 am

Renz,
I have been playing RTCW for a long time now with you and know that you are younger and that is a wonderful thing. I would enjoy a trip back to college for a few semesters myself. It doen not make scense to me why you would want sadam to remain in charge of that country, when the gassing of his own people (KURDS) is common FACT. iraq is reporting some 200 or less dead civilians from this campaign. Surely a village has a few more people than that. The reason that I address this civilian casualty issue with you is that it appears to me this is one particular subject that you feel strongly about. Sometimes global politics do not not make sense. But if you country had been attacked you would ( I hope) want to see it not happen again. You are content with your life as Americans are with their lives. Why should we have to live a different life b/c of terrorists. We will not. Thus the action you see.

It does not matter which way you want to look at it. If you are a person that feels sadam is a brutal and terrible dictator. Than this regime change is going to take care of that for the iraqi people. If on the other hand, you are concerned about the terrorist threat and WMD, than this is a war to rid iraq of them.

Belguim like the US is not perfect. There have been a lot of Jewish Temples set on fire and machine gunned in your country. I have access to your news also. Perhaps your country since not involved in the war might have a little manpower available to protect your citizens>

by **Doug the Unforgiven** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 9:53 am

I love the mindset that Saddam is more trustworthy than Bush. It tells of everything we need to know about their so-called "informed" opinions.

Who's next after Saddam?

Who is online