Closing our borders

[[RD]{gen}Beast]

lol lol and this thread really gives my posting a boost!:P

[[RD]{gen}Beast]

hey i like all you guys nice to have this awesome discussion:)
lets make one about somethin else:P!

[Doug the Unforgiven]

Originally posted by [RD]{gen}Beast
whe dont take unnessosery "sacrifices"

There were many in America's Revolutionary era that considered going to war with England an "unnessosery" sacrifice.

It also seemed that stopping Hitler (before it was too late) was also considered "unnessosery" sacrifice.

Thanks, but I'll stick with the philosophy that there are actually things worth fighting for.

[[RD]{gen}Beast]

k i agree with those things but you gotha now im just against war in iraq nothin more so...

[Doug the Unforgiven]

There are civilians in Basra rising up against Iraqi forces. Should we stop these civilians from revolting against the sweet, benevolent, cuddly Saddam Hussein?

These Iraqi forces have turned their mortars to fire AT THEIR OWN CIVILIANS. But I guess that's fine since you guys think it's ok for the Iraqi gov't to brutalize its people. But the US is the bad guy for trying to stop this brutality.

[[RD]{gen}Beast]

lol im not going in on that because i know im gonna say somethin stupid again:D

[Doug the Unforgiven]

Originally posted by [RD]{gen}Beast
lol im not going in on that because i know im gonna say somethin stupid again:D

Welcome, friend! Admitting our faults is the first step toward enlightenment, so sayeth the Queen Spider.

[[WEF]Herr Renz]

Doug, about History again (where we have to learn from...) the reasson for WW2 was WW1...

why? well after the war germany had to pay everything back and was in an economical crisis...

well people that are hungry what food... and if a nazi will give them food that's ok... so because germany had to pay everything back the nazi's were given a chance to will elections etc... and we know what happened...
so... because we learn from history Germany had nothing to pay back after WW2... cause rich people don't like political chances or war etc... (maybe the weapon industrie... but that's a special one )
well this is a bit the same... because of the trade embargo's Iraq is still as poor as before... so people don't care that Saddam has the power... as long as they have food... and now america is attacking, they haven't any food anymore (some people, not everybody...)

well, learn from history... if you don't want Iraq to use mdw's (if they have them, i don't gonna talk about that)... give them welfare and they will never use them... cause they know what they can lose... a lot more than they can lose now...

[[RD]{gen}Beast]

hmmm ill shut up:)

[[WEF]Herr Renz]

just tell something interesting instead of just telling "Bush sux" or something like that

just like Cid he doesn't says anything else that "renz is too young to undrerstand something but i don't tell what"...
(srry, but i warned him you get kids angry if you say they're too young to understand something )

[El Cid]

Originally posted by [WEF]Herr Renz
Cid if you would be smart you would never tell a kid that he's too young to understand and needs to go back to school... cause that way you make them only angry... (are you a parent? remember this for when you see ya kids...)

And i think my posts are a little more grown up that yours cause i haven't seen any of your opinion yet only that you don't agree with me because "i'm too young..."

I got nothing against you Rens, its nothing personal.

#1 I never said your too young, and that you should go back to school. So maybe you got me mixed up with someone else.

#2 When you and Beast start saying 'f' the USA, and generally acting rude I take offense at it because I consider myself an American, just as you consider yourself a Belgian. And notice how, I dont go on Belgian forums, and tell all the Belgians to 'f' themselves because they don't come to my countries aid, even after we saved your country from the Nazi's.

#3 Your right about me not treating you like a kid. I am an adult, at 25, and I know what it's like to be a kid. I would recommend that you not try and compare they way I reply to you, to the way a person should reply to a kid. Even if you are a kid, its good to at least aim for adulthood in semi-anonymous circustances like this forum.

But, listen, I appreciate your and Beasts good humour on this forum, and am sorry if my chastisments were taken personally. cya.

[[RD]{gen}Beast]

lol cid your a cool guy man and i didnt say f usa i sayd f bush (please dont give me any comments about that again:P) and hey where 16 me and renz so whe aint that young:D and IM NOT BELGIUM BUT A DUTCH BASTARD:D

[PudriK Profile]

well, learn from history... if you don't want Iraq to use mdw's (if they have them, i don't gonna talk about that)... give them welfare and they will never use them... cause they know what they can lose... a lot more than they can lose now...

Except this doesn't work either. Look at Korea - we give them food aid, Nuclear reactors for power, and after a few years they beg for more.

Paying a country to not develop WMD is like blackmail - they will only demand more until you aren't willing to pay. When that day comes, they will be closer to equal strength because of all the money you gave them instead of using it yourself.

The answer is one of two things - either engage the country in trade and let them have WMD, so that they cannot afford to lose your good will (which is what we're doing with China), or use diplomatic and trade sanctions to isolate them. Then they can develop WMD. The advantage of the former is that it helps inject our Western culture into these countries, and over time it will be transformed by our superior example. (i.e. Iran - a couple generations and they'll be westernized, if we don't cause them to become ultra-nationalist. I read recently the most popular TV show there last year was Baywatch.) And the latter can marginalize a country to where it can't afford WMD. (i.e. Cuba)

The nasty chink in all this is rogue states who develop WMD on the sly and give them to terrorist groups, so that they are not traceable back to that nation. I dont' know what the answer is there. But it seems to me that armies of inspectors running around through every rogue state is a messy and (experience shows) ineffectual solution.