Are You Gay O.o
19 posts
• Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2
- SPFR-Sgt.Willy
-
- Posts: 110
- Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 7:40 pm
- Location: Box
Are You Gay O.o
by SPFR-Sgt.Willy » Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:23 pm
Very Long
The Science Of Sexual Orientation
Researchers Focus On Twins
(Page 1 of 5)Aug. 27, 2006
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jared (left) and Adam are nine years old. Their mother says she began to notice a difference in Adam when he was only 18 months old. Adam's behavior is an example of childhood gender nonconformity, say scientists. Research shows that most children with extreme tendencies toward gender nonconformity grow up to be gay. (CBS)
(CBS) This story originally aired on March 12, 2006.
There are few issues as hotly contested — and as poorly understood — as the question of what makes a person gay or straight. It's not only a political, social, and religious question but also a scientific question, one that might someday have an actual, provable answer.
The handful of scientists who work in this under-funded and politically charged field will tell you: That answer is a long way off. But as Lesley Stahl reports, their efforts are already yielding tantalizing clues. One focus of their research is twins.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The bedrooms of 9-year-old twins Adam and Jared couldn't be more different. Jared's room is decked out with camouflage, airplanes, and military toys, while Adam's room sports a pastel canopy, stuffed animals, and white horses.
When Stahl came for a visit, Jared was eager to show her his G.I. Joe collection. "I have ones that say like Marine and SWAT. And then that's where I keep all the guns for 'em," he explained.
Adam was also proud to show off his toys. "This is one of my dolls. Bratz baby," he said.
Adam wears pinkish-purple nail polish, adorned with stars and diamonds.
Asked if he went to school like that, Adam says, "Uh-huh. I just showed them my nails, and they were like, 'Why did you do that?'"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out Public Eye's coverage of the reaction to the story, which includes producer Shari Finkelstein's response to critics, here and here.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adam's behavior is called childhood gender nonconformity, meaning a child whose interests and behaviors are more typical of the opposite sex. Research shows that kids with extreme gender nonconformity usually grow up to be gay.
Danielle, Adam and Jared's mom, says she began to notice this difference in Adam when he was about 18 months old and began asking for a Barbie doll. Jared, meanwhile, was asking for fire trucks.
Not that much has changed. Jared’s favorite game now is Battlefield 2, Special Forces. As for Adam, he says, "It's called Neopets: The Darkest Faerie."
Asked how he would describe himself to a stranger, Jared says, "I'm a kid who likes G.I. Joes and games and TV."
"I would say like a girl," Adam replied to the same question. When asked why he thinks that is, Adam shrugged.
"To me, cases like that really scream out, 'Hey, it's not out there. It's in here.' There's no indication that this mother is prone to raise very feminine boys because his twin is not that way," says Michael Bailey, a psychology professor at Northwestern University and a leading researcher in the field of sexual orientation.
Bailey says he doesn't think nurture is a plausible explanation.
Psychologists used to believe homosexuality was caused by nurture — namely overbearing mothers and distant fathers — but that theory has been disproved. Today, scientists are looking at genes, environment, brain structure and hormones. There is one area of consensus: that homosexuality involves more than just sexual behavior; it’s physiological.
So, is the conclusion that gay people do in fact move differently?" Stahl asked Rieger.
"Yeah, absolutely," he replied.
It's not true 100 percent of the time; it is true on average. The researchers also studied the way gay and straight people talk, and they found differences on average there too.
This research is controversial. Some say it is reinforcing stereotypes. But to Bailey, the stereotypes suggest there's a feminizing of the brain in gay men, and masculinizing in lesbians. Ironically though, when it comes to their sex lives, he says gay and straight men actually have a lot in common.
"Straight men tend to be shallow in terms of focusing on looks. Gay men are shallow, too. Straight men are more interested than straight women in having casual, uncommitted sex. Gay men are like that, too," says Bailey.
"One has the impression that gay men are much more inclined toward casual sex than straight men," Stahl said.
"They're just more successful at it, because the people they're trying to have sex with are also interested in it," Bailey explained.
"But don't you find this interesting that the one big area where gay men are more like straight men is in sex? I mean, that is…both amusing and odd," Stahl said.
"It suggests that whatever causes a man to be gay doesn't make him feminine in every respect. There must be different parts of the brain that can be feminized independently from each other," Bailey replied.
But how and when does this feminizing occur? If the differences were already apparent in childhood, that would point to an early, perhaps even genetic origin — and that's what Bailey and Rieger are testing in a new study using childhood home movies.
In the study, volunteers were asked to rate each child's femininity or masculinity. Stahl took the test and rated two girls highly feminine.
When shown video of a toddler girl running a truck off of a table, Stahl observed, "She's really not girly. Isn't that interesting? She’s not girly."
She also observed differences in two boys, one of whom would grow up to be straight, while the other is now gay.
When people meet the twins and find out one of them is gay, Greg says people have asked if he's sure, and how it can be. "Everyone is curious about that," he says.
There were signs, even when they were little kids. Their mother told Stahl that Steve loved sports and the outdoors while Greg liked helping out in the kitchen. But it wasn't until high school that Steve became convinced Greg was gay.
Asked if he said anything to his brother, Steve says, "I did actually. And I think the way I worded it was something like, 'You know, Greg, if you're gay, it's OK with me. And I'll still love you the same.' And he gave a very philosophical answer. He said something like, 'Well, I love the soul of a person and not the physical being.' And in my mind, I was like, 'Yep, he's gay.'"
"I wasn't ready just yet," Greg added.
Does this prove that it's not genetic?
"What it proves is it's not completely genetic. They have the same genes," says Bailey.
Asked if that brings us back to the mother and the father, Bailey says no.
"But that's environment," Stahl said.
"That's environment. But that's not the only environment. There's also the environment that happens to us while we’re in the womb. And scientists are realizing that environment is much more important than we ever thought it was," Bailey explained.
her head and rump.
If Romeo goes after a male, Dr. Breedlove says the male will seem profoundly indifferent.
But Breedlove says he can change all that. He gave a female rat a single shot of the male sex hormone testosterone at birth. Now grown up, she will never perform lordosis.
But a male rat did. He was castrated at birth, depriving him of testosterone.
"So you created a gay rat?" Stahl asked.
"I wouldn't say that these are gay rats. But I will say that these are genetic male rats who are showing much more feminine behavior," he explained.
So the answer may be that it's not genes but hormones.
"That's exactly the question that we're all wondering. This business of testosterone having such a profound influence. Does that have some relevance to humans?" Breedlove said.
While biologists look at hormones for answers about human sexuality, other scientists are looking for patterns in statistics. And hard as this is to believe, they have found something they call "the older brother effect."
"The more older brothers a man has, the greater that man's chance of being gay," says Bailey.
Asked if that's true, Bailey says, "That is absolutely true."
If this comes as a shock to you, you’re not alone. But it turns out, it’s one of the most solid findings in this field, demonstrated in study after study.
And the numbers are significant: for every older brother a man has, his chances of being gay increase by one third. Older sisters make no difference, and there's no corresponding effect for lesbians. A first-born son has about a 2 percent chance of being gay, and the numbers rise from there. The theory is it happens in the womb.
"Somehow, the mother's body is remembering how many boys she's carried before," says Breedlove. "The favorite hypothesis is that the mother may be making antibodies when she sees a boy the first time, and then affect subsequent boys when she carries them in utero."
"You mean, like she's carrying a foreign substance?" Stahl asked.
"And if you think about it, a woman who's carrying a son for the first time, she is carrying a foreign substance," Breedlove replied. "There are some proteins encoded on his Y chromosome that her body has never seen before and that her immune system would be expected to regard as 'invaders,'" he added.
It’s still not a proven theory and it gets even stranger.
suggests it could be in the genes, except where does that leave Steve?
Adam and Jared, fraternal twins, have older brothers, but they're ambidextrous.
Then there's the question of how something in the womb could affect one twin but not the other. There are many more questions at this point than answers, but the scientists 60 Minutes spoke to are increasingly convinced that genes, hormones, or both — that something is happening to determine sexual orientation before birth. Adam has come up with his own theory.
"I was supposed to be a girl in my mom's stomach. But my mom wished for all boys. So, I turned into a boy," Adam explained.
Asked if he wished he was a girl, Adam nodded.
"Do you think there was anything that you could have done that would have changed Adam?" Stahl asked Adam and Jared's mom Danielle.
"I could have changed Adam on the outside to where he would have showed me the macho boy that I would want as a boy. But that would not change who he is inside. And I think that would have damaged him a lot more," she said.
Stahl asked both boys if they are proud of the way they are, and both boys gave her big nods.
"Yup," Adam replied.
For more and videos http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/09/60minutes/main1385230.shtml
The Science Of Sexual Orientation
Researchers Focus On Twins
(Page 1 of 5)Aug. 27, 2006
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jared (left) and Adam are nine years old. Their mother says she began to notice a difference in Adam when he was only 18 months old. Adam's behavior is an example of childhood gender nonconformity, say scientists. Research shows that most children with extreme tendencies toward gender nonconformity grow up to be gay. (CBS)
(CBS) This story originally aired on March 12, 2006.
There are few issues as hotly contested — and as poorly understood — as the question of what makes a person gay or straight. It's not only a political, social, and religious question but also a scientific question, one that might someday have an actual, provable answer.
The handful of scientists who work in this under-funded and politically charged field will tell you: That answer is a long way off. But as Lesley Stahl reports, their efforts are already yielding tantalizing clues. One focus of their research is twins.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The bedrooms of 9-year-old twins Adam and Jared couldn't be more different. Jared's room is decked out with camouflage, airplanes, and military toys, while Adam's room sports a pastel canopy, stuffed animals, and white horses.
When Stahl came for a visit, Jared was eager to show her his G.I. Joe collection. "I have ones that say like Marine and SWAT. And then that's where I keep all the guns for 'em," he explained.
Adam was also proud to show off his toys. "This is one of my dolls. Bratz baby," he said.
Adam wears pinkish-purple nail polish, adorned with stars and diamonds.
Asked if he went to school like that, Adam says, "Uh-huh. I just showed them my nails, and they were like, 'Why did you do that?'"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out Public Eye's coverage of the reaction to the story, which includes producer Shari Finkelstein's response to critics, here and here.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adam's behavior is called childhood gender nonconformity, meaning a child whose interests and behaviors are more typical of the opposite sex. Research shows that kids with extreme gender nonconformity usually grow up to be gay.
Danielle, Adam and Jared's mom, says she began to notice this difference in Adam when he was about 18 months old and began asking for a Barbie doll. Jared, meanwhile, was asking for fire trucks.
Not that much has changed. Jared’s favorite game now is Battlefield 2, Special Forces. As for Adam, he says, "It's called Neopets: The Darkest Faerie."
Asked how he would describe himself to a stranger, Jared says, "I'm a kid who likes G.I. Joes and games and TV."
"I would say like a girl," Adam replied to the same question. When asked why he thinks that is, Adam shrugged.
"To me, cases like that really scream out, 'Hey, it's not out there. It's in here.' There's no indication that this mother is prone to raise very feminine boys because his twin is not that way," says Michael Bailey, a psychology professor at Northwestern University and a leading researcher in the field of sexual orientation.
Bailey says he doesn't think nurture is a plausible explanation.
Psychologists used to believe homosexuality was caused by nurture — namely overbearing mothers and distant fathers — but that theory has been disproved. Today, scientists are looking at genes, environment, brain structure and hormones. There is one area of consensus: that homosexuality involves more than just sexual behavior; it’s physiological.
So, is the conclusion that gay people do in fact move differently?" Stahl asked Rieger.
"Yeah, absolutely," he replied.
It's not true 100 percent of the time; it is true on average. The researchers also studied the way gay and straight people talk, and they found differences on average there too.
This research is controversial. Some say it is reinforcing stereotypes. But to Bailey, the stereotypes suggest there's a feminizing of the brain in gay men, and masculinizing in lesbians. Ironically though, when it comes to their sex lives, he says gay and straight men actually have a lot in common.
"Straight men tend to be shallow in terms of focusing on looks. Gay men are shallow, too. Straight men are more interested than straight women in having casual, uncommitted sex. Gay men are like that, too," says Bailey.
"One has the impression that gay men are much more inclined toward casual sex than straight men," Stahl said.
"They're just more successful at it, because the people they're trying to have sex with are also interested in it," Bailey explained.
"But don't you find this interesting that the one big area where gay men are more like straight men is in sex? I mean, that is…both amusing and odd," Stahl said.
"It suggests that whatever causes a man to be gay doesn't make him feminine in every respect. There must be different parts of the brain that can be feminized independently from each other," Bailey replied.
But how and when does this feminizing occur? If the differences were already apparent in childhood, that would point to an early, perhaps even genetic origin — and that's what Bailey and Rieger are testing in a new study using childhood home movies.
In the study, volunteers were asked to rate each child's femininity or masculinity. Stahl took the test and rated two girls highly feminine.
When shown video of a toddler girl running a truck off of a table, Stahl observed, "She's really not girly. Isn't that interesting? She’s not girly."
She also observed differences in two boys, one of whom would grow up to be straight, while the other is now gay.
When people meet the twins and find out one of them is gay, Greg says people have asked if he's sure, and how it can be. "Everyone is curious about that," he says.
There were signs, even when they were little kids. Their mother told Stahl that Steve loved sports and the outdoors while Greg liked helping out in the kitchen. But it wasn't until high school that Steve became convinced Greg was gay.
Asked if he said anything to his brother, Steve says, "I did actually. And I think the way I worded it was something like, 'You know, Greg, if you're gay, it's OK with me. And I'll still love you the same.' And he gave a very philosophical answer. He said something like, 'Well, I love the soul of a person and not the physical being.' And in my mind, I was like, 'Yep, he's gay.'"
"I wasn't ready just yet," Greg added.
Does this prove that it's not genetic?
"What it proves is it's not completely genetic. They have the same genes," says Bailey.
Asked if that brings us back to the mother and the father, Bailey says no.
"But that's environment," Stahl said.
"That's environment. But that's not the only environment. There's also the environment that happens to us while we’re in the womb. And scientists are realizing that environment is much more important than we ever thought it was," Bailey explained.
her head and rump.
If Romeo goes after a male, Dr. Breedlove says the male will seem profoundly indifferent.
But Breedlove says he can change all that. He gave a female rat a single shot of the male sex hormone testosterone at birth. Now grown up, she will never perform lordosis.
But a male rat did. He was castrated at birth, depriving him of testosterone.
"So you created a gay rat?" Stahl asked.
"I wouldn't say that these are gay rats. But I will say that these are genetic male rats who are showing much more feminine behavior," he explained.
So the answer may be that it's not genes but hormones.
"That's exactly the question that we're all wondering. This business of testosterone having such a profound influence. Does that have some relevance to humans?" Breedlove said.
While biologists look at hormones for answers about human sexuality, other scientists are looking for patterns in statistics. And hard as this is to believe, they have found something they call "the older brother effect."
"The more older brothers a man has, the greater that man's chance of being gay," says Bailey.
Asked if that's true, Bailey says, "That is absolutely true."
If this comes as a shock to you, you’re not alone. But it turns out, it’s one of the most solid findings in this field, demonstrated in study after study.
And the numbers are significant: for every older brother a man has, his chances of being gay increase by one third. Older sisters make no difference, and there's no corresponding effect for lesbians. A first-born son has about a 2 percent chance of being gay, and the numbers rise from there. The theory is it happens in the womb.
"Somehow, the mother's body is remembering how many boys she's carried before," says Breedlove. "The favorite hypothesis is that the mother may be making antibodies when she sees a boy the first time, and then affect subsequent boys when she carries them in utero."
"You mean, like she's carrying a foreign substance?" Stahl asked.
"And if you think about it, a woman who's carrying a son for the first time, she is carrying a foreign substance," Breedlove replied. "There are some proteins encoded on his Y chromosome that her body has never seen before and that her immune system would be expected to regard as 'invaders,'" he added.
It’s still not a proven theory and it gets even stranger.
suggests it could be in the genes, except where does that leave Steve?
Adam and Jared, fraternal twins, have older brothers, but they're ambidextrous.
Then there's the question of how something in the womb could affect one twin but not the other. There are many more questions at this point than answers, but the scientists 60 Minutes spoke to are increasingly convinced that genes, hormones, or both — that something is happening to determine sexual orientation before birth. Adam has come up with his own theory.
"I was supposed to be a girl in my mom's stomach. But my mom wished for all boys. So, I turned into a boy," Adam explained.
Asked if he wished he was a girl, Adam nodded.
"Do you think there was anything that you could have done that would have changed Adam?" Stahl asked Adam and Jared's mom Danielle.
"I could have changed Adam on the outside to where he would have showed me the macho boy that I would want as a boy. But that would not change who he is inside. And I think that would have damaged him a lot more," she said.
Stahl asked both boys if they are proud of the way they are, and both boys gave her big nods.
"Yup," Adam replied.
For more and videos http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/09/60minutes/main1385230.shtml
- Tchinnychin
-
- Posts: 697
- Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:51 pm
- Location: Lowell. Ma
by Tchinnychin » Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:44 pm
Sorry I fell asleep halfway through.
What happened????
What happened????
Sig by tdwhite
[color="White"]Ron Burgundy: I saw that. Brick killed a guy. Did you throw a trident?
Brick Tamland: Yeah, there were horses, and a man on fire, and I killed a guy with a trident.
[/color]
- cavalierlwt
-
- Posts: 2840
- Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 12:54 pm
by cavalierlwt » Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:03 pm
This will probably get me flamed like crazy, but I predict in a few decades there will be prenatal gene therapy that will nearly wipe out the number of children born gay (not that I'm saying there's anything wrong with anybody being gay). Sort of like in the movie 'Gattaca'
There will always be experimental lesbianism though, as long as women go to college
JK
There will always be experimental lesbianism though, as long as women go to college
JK
Failing to plead
with a throat full of dust
Life falls asleep
in a fetal position.
with a throat full of dust
Life falls asleep
in a fetal position.
- CreepingCharlie
-
- Posts: 1105
- Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:32 pm
- Location: Northern Virginia/ North Dakota
by CreepingCharlie » Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:52 pm
Originally posted by Sayntfuu
Submitter we accept you just the way you are.
Army Strong
I'm a pilot
UND Fighting Sioux!
I'm a pilot
UND Fighting Sioux!
Originally posted by TChinnyChin
Just like in game Charlie leaves in a chopper without any infantry again.
- petersapien
-
- Posts: 320
- Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:09 am
- Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
by petersapien » Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:21 am
xfire: petersapien
Originally posted by dugosapien
yea and its usually me your buzzing... and i do flinch cause your not at 50 ft
by Chacal » Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:34 am
Moved to smoking room (discounting tenuous link with BF2).
Chacal
[SIZE="1"][color="LightBlue"]Reporter: "Mr Gandhi, what do you think of western civilization?"
Gandhi: "I think it would be a great idea."[/color][/SIZE]
[SIZE="1"][color="LightBlue"]Reporter: "Mr Gandhi, what do you think of western civilization?"
Gandhi: "I think it would be a great idea."[/color][/SIZE]
- Major SONAR
- Posts: 496
- Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 12:18 pm
- Location: Nashville, TN
by Major SONAR » Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:07 am
I may be wrong, but I never saw any mention of the twins' father. With only a mother figure around, I am not suprised one of the twins is gay. People end up a lot like their parents. I know I'm more like my father than I want to be...heh
But seriously, I believe without a strong father figure, the chances a person will become gay increases.
DISCLAIMER:
I have nothing against gays. I've had gay and lesbian friends at various times in my life and had no problem accepting them as my friends. I judge people by their actions, not their sexual orientation. My comments above are only observations I have made in my life.
But seriously, I believe without a strong father figure, the chances a person will become gay increases.
DISCLAIMER:
I have nothing against gays. I've had gay and lesbian friends at various times in my life and had no problem accepting them as my friends. I judge people by their actions, not their sexual orientation. My comments above are only observations I have made in my life.
Another Awesome Sig by Evan - Thanks man!
- Jungle_Fowl
-
- Posts: 222
- Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:34 am
- Location: Montreal, Quebec
by Jungle_Fowl » Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:49 am
Well the only thing that caught my attention was, why a 9 year old is playing BF2. It is rated teen. The parents obviously don't checkout/care what the kids are playing.
other then that i'm with chinny and his comment of
other then that i'm with chinny and his comment of
- Conscious*
- Posts: 2702
- Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2003 4:09 pm
by Conscious* » Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:58 am
Being still in highschool the whole gay thing is obviously escalated, but I have also noticed that the people who I know who are gay not who I speculate all come from divorced families. I don't know any of them more then that, to know if their father was ever around. But there are certainly ways mothers can influence boys into liking girls things. I can remember when i was 5 or 6 my favorite color was purple (normally a girls color) because it was my moms. Then again I was always the kid wielding plastic guns and running through the house like Jared. However my dad was always around, and still is, so I do see him almost as often as my mother now. Anyway the point I'm trying to make is, boys can definetly be influenced by their mother, and I think if a mother was to hand them barbies and horses from a young age, it could turn them to be gay. I'm not sure obviously, its just my speculation.
by Billabong » Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:40 pm
Funny, I must have missed the check box for "Are You Gay" when I signed up for my BF2 account. Guess EA has a "don't ask, don't tell" policy too.
Did anyone else miss the part about the scientist making "gay rats"? Someone got paid to make "gay rats". I'm soo pi$$ed at my guidance counlser right now.
Did anyone else miss the part about the scientist making "gay rats"? Someone got paid to make "gay rats". I'm soo pi$$ed at my guidance counlser right now.
19 posts
• Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 21 guests