Zeitgeist

[Buliwyf Profile]

you must watch this

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/main.htm

[donkey_nutz Profile]

bully WTF man....are you on acid?

[BladeRunner Profile]

donkey I'm not sure acid would create trips such as that.
Do you watch that crap buli?
(maybe the wrong term, sub entertainment for crap)

[Tchinnychin Profile]

I feel dumber after watching that.

[Chacal Profile Website]

I don't know. They mention lots of verifiable facts that we never heard about. Can these be verified or debunked?
It doesn't matter what anyone THINKS about it. Only facts matter.

[[ecgn] btt Profile]

I thought it was a good watch. So much to say to tired to say it.

[cavalierlwt Profile]

Is this another WTC conspiracy theory movie????

Ahh yes, terrorists spent weeks planting bombs in the WTC, cutting away insulation, pre-cutting hundreds of structures, running miles of cables and such, after putting a massive team of engineers in there to first study the building, take measurments, and then to direct this massive project.

Then after somehow secretly doing all that, they then decided to also fly planes into the buildings--I guess just to be sure. Hey, from what I understand from very reliable sources, the terrorists also planted about 3000 undercover agents in the WTC, and at the exact moment the bombs went off, *and* the planes hit the buildings, all these secret agents jumped up and stabbed the WTC victims too. You can't prove those victims weren't really stabbed too, it's all a big coverup.

C'mon folks, use logic. We saw the planes hit with our own eyes. Everything else is just retarded paranoia. It was a clever attack, an attack that succeeded for the same reasons most sneak attacks succeed---simplicity.
All this extra crap is just the way every major event is perceived when thousand (millions?) of people have different experiences. Rumors, tall tales, conflicting stories, incorrect info etc all happen when huge amounts of people have a common experience and then try to correlate their experiences with each other.

What the hell is this movie? The first clip I saw was some BS about WTC, the beginning has something about Jesus and Joseph, the middle has some weird One Word Govt stuff....WTF? it's like all the Tin Foil Hat crowd got together and made a movie.

[Jungle_Fowl Profile]

Is it really paranoia, or could there be some truth to it?

They brought up some interesting things about the 9/11 disaster. I never knew about the building #7, but how would a building collapse like that due to fire? It really shouldn't, concrete and steel don't burn so why did it collapse? nothing hit it either.

A bunch of other ideas they brought up too made me question what happened, the debris fields to the crashed planes in the pentagon and the other crash. Fire will not evaporate steel so where is the debris?

What about how the US got into a war with Iraq? Because the government said they had WMDs...and after 7 years they are still looking for them? There was no relation to the 9/11 attacks so why did they need to go in?

Also how is it that almost every government in the world is in debt, but there are very few that are in the positive? shouldn't someone be in the positive?

Also I just learned that in Quebec our drivers licenses will be having chips in them that contain our personal information, think it will happen sometime around 2011, and that it will be "optional" at first, but we all know that after a few more years it will be mandatory. But what is the purpose of this chip? Why doesn't the photo id work, or a passport? Seems to me the world got on fine without them...whats the need now?

I find that saying it's all BS or they are just crazy is not right...there is a little truth in everything. We all know there is 2 sides to every story and then there is the truth.

It's not Whether or not the ideas are right or wrong I think the real message is to ask questions, and to question the people in power and ask our selves if they are really bettering our lifes or not...in the end we elect people to do whats right for us, so isn't it about time they do?

[cavalierlwt Profile]

All those conspiracy theories have been debunked, over and over again.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=5

The building did get hit, by huge chunks of the Twin Towers when they fell. It scooped out a ten story gash out of #7 that extended a quarter of the way into the building. Plus all those diesel tanks (for the backup generators) burned for hours. All the WTC building were build the same: an almost hollow vertical tube. The outside perimeter supported the weight of the floors, so the floors could be wide open and spacious, as opposed to traditional buildings which use internal supports more at the expense of decreased floor space.

And yes, steel building do collapse in fires. A furniture warehouse in charleston burned and collapsed, killing a couple of firefighters inside. Steel has one tensile strength at room temperature, but as it heats up it softens, loses tensile strength. At 1000C steel loses 50-70% of it's strength. Worse yet, it buckles and twists, which instantly destroys steel trusses. It's similar to when you take a really hot cookie sheet out of the oven and set it down to cool. The pan cools/heats unevenly and begins to warp, usually you'll see one corner lifted up as the pan twists.

As for the Iraq stuff, that fiasco speaks for itself, I'll leave it alone. Just remember, any President can create a war situation much, much, much easier and less risky than trying to pull of massive internal attack like 9/11.

And for those chips, again human nature. There's a lot of people who have a vested interest in your personal information, unless people put their foot down it's going to get much worse. But it's not all connected together, just individual groups who have their own agendas and just happen to be 'paddling in the same direction'.

[Chacal Profile Website]

I think it is quite healthy that people challenge the official views and distrust leaders. Especially for the target audience for this movie. There is a dangerous and growing tendency in the US to believe that a badge and a gun make someone right and that citizens should always obey the law.

Also I just learned that in Quebec our drivers licenses will be having chips in them that contain our personal information, think it will happen sometime around 2011

That is correct, and if my firm wins the contract I will probably be the security architect who will design the identity management system at SAAQ that will make this possible. This is in response to a demand from US Homeland Security so that our driver license will be accepted in lieu of a passport when crossing the border. It is quite unnecessary as a passport would do just fine.

There won't be much personal information in the system though, especially not if I design it. Talk about the wolf guarding the sheep...

I often enjoy horrifying other IT security professionals by telling them that privacy rights are more important than security, including life protection and national security. They don't understand the concept because they believe what the government tells them.

[A.M. Foxtrot Profile]

And yes, steel building do collapse in fires. A furniture warehouse in charleston burned and collapsed, killing a couple of firefighters inside. Steel has one tensile strength at room temperature, but as it heats up it softens, loses tensile strength. At 1000C steel loses 50-70% of it's strength. Worse yet, it buckles and twists, which instantly destroys steel trusses. It's similar to when you take a really hot cookie sheet out of the oven and set it down to cool. The pan cools/heats unevenly and begins to warp, usually you'll see one corner lifted up as the pan twists.

Exactamundo.

Trusses are designed to work as complete unit. Be it in homes or commercial buildings. When held together properly, they provide great structural support, but when one of the components of the system fail, they rapidly deteriorate and catastrophic failure is often the result.

[Jungle_Fowl Profile]

Thanks for the website Cav, it was very interesting.

Also my main point was not wether or not the building collapsed through other mean. I know about the steel/fire, and we saw the result. I admit I didn't have all the facts since I didn't research it, but I wasn't really trying to support their conclusions about everything. It wasn't my intention, and I'm sorry.

I was just trying to ask questions, which may or may not have substance. I just find the what if scenario to be the most interesting topics since many ideas can come from them. Who is to say that one idea is more right then the other unless we dig deeper and question from all sides. Isn't that the basis of science, to come up with an idea and try to prove or disprove them?

That was what I was really trying to get across, was about asking questions, and not believing everything you hear from the government. We really don't hold our governments accountable anymore in any respect, and I think that was more the main point of the film, or at least thats what I took from it.

I'm not saying I'm a role modle here, I'm always believing stuff i hear ...but i try to question things every now and again.

And Chacal its good to hear that if you do get that chip contract that you'll stick up for our rights.

[cavalierlwt Profile]

Well then, I think I can agree with all of you guys on this point--Don't trust those in power! It seems like we've had a mantra beaten into our heads: don't put up a fuss, don't talk bad about govt or even corporations. Anyone who does this hates America, yada yada yada.

I really dig it when I flip on the TV and see people in other countries throwing a massive protest over some relatively small change their laws--wages/hours, whatever. It's good to keep goverments and businesses on their toes, let 'em know you're just one bad day away from burning some stuff down.

[[ecgn] btt Profile]

It's good to keep goverments and businesses on their toes, let 'em know you're just one bad day away from burning some stuff down.

That day is long over due in this country.

[Chacal Profile Website]

Have passport and torch, will travel.