Return To RTCW
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- BigBadWolf
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Return To RTCW
by BigBadWolf » Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:32 pm
Hello. I've been an RtCW nerd since 2001. I was 14 years old then.
This seems like the most lively place around for anything wolfenstein related. I played on the server a few times, my ping isn't great and makes the experience less than perfect. But its great to play once again especially without mines, rifle grenades, xp and the other awfulness that splash damage introduced.
I've been interested in updating the game, something like the Black Mesa Source team did. Basically recreate the content for a modernized engine. I want to retain the classic Wolfenstein MP mechanics. No ET, Bani, Shrub... Those will be left to the community as before. So far I've found the ET:Legacy project, which seems less than organized and even less what I want to see. I was browsing and noticed the ioRtcw engine on here.
So I'm curious if people would be interested to see this idea realized. And even more interested if anybody would like to help contribute? I've began to update Beach Invasion. Mostly building models/textures, as the engine will determine what map format to use. I need to evaluate the pros/cons of using a modded wolfMp engine, or pushing something new and recreating the game functionality.
If anyone cares to see some of my previous stuff check out:
http://www.aethergames.com
http://www.aethergames.com/v5 <-- about to be commissioned.
This seems like the most lively place around for anything wolfenstein related. I played on the server a few times, my ping isn't great and makes the experience less than perfect. But its great to play once again especially without mines, rifle grenades, xp and the other awfulness that splash damage introduced.
I've been interested in updating the game, something like the Black Mesa Source team did. Basically recreate the content for a modernized engine. I want to retain the classic Wolfenstein MP mechanics. No ET, Bani, Shrub... Those will be left to the community as before. So far I've found the ET:Legacy project, which seems less than organized and even less what I want to see. I was browsing and noticed the ioRtcw engine on here.
So I'm curious if people would be interested to see this idea realized. And even more interested if anybody would like to help contribute? I've began to update Beach Invasion. Mostly building models/textures, as the engine will determine what map format to use. I need to evaluate the pros/cons of using a modded wolfMp engine, or pushing something new and recreating the game functionality.
If anyone cares to see some of my previous stuff check out:
http://www.aethergames.com
http://www.aethergames.com/v5 <-- about to be commissioned.
Pain is only an illusion...
Re: Return To RTCW
by 'L0, » Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:34 am
Heya,
What I can tell you from my experience is that regardless what people say, they will be interested but once things start moving it will spark little if any interest. Rtcw crowd is hard to please and this is more or less a 12 years old game with nothing but hardcore fans left. They stick with the game for 12 years so there isn't really anything that will please them..only way things would happen is that if you aim at different crowd (niche or new, fresh blood) and in return due new activity attract old timers.
The biggest issues with rtcw are modellers, well, basically the absence of them. The only new model afaik in last 4 or 5 years in rtcw was a shotgun for 1.0 mod and even that was ported from ET so you see in what state game currently is. There's still few programmers around so that's somewhat easier but regardless what programmer does, it's up to content artist to pore the life in it and puts it on a radar of new players. I guess we could say that it's artists job to attract new players and it's programmers job to keep them.
With that said, only question is; If you yourself are interested in giving it a go as it's a long, lonely and painful road ahead. If you're up for a challenge, present from technical pov your plan and vision and we can go from there on.
Nate
What I can tell you from my experience is that regardless what people say, they will be interested but once things start moving it will spark little if any interest. Rtcw crowd is hard to please and this is more or less a 12 years old game with nothing but hardcore fans left. They stick with the game for 12 years so there isn't really anything that will please them..only way things would happen is that if you aim at different crowd (niche or new, fresh blood) and in return due new activity attract old timers.
The biggest issues with rtcw are modellers, well, basically the absence of them. The only new model afaik in last 4 or 5 years in rtcw was a shotgun for 1.0 mod and even that was ported from ET so you see in what state game currently is. There's still few programmers around so that's somewhat easier but regardless what programmer does, it's up to content artist to pore the life in it and puts it on a radar of new players. I guess we could say that it's artists job to attract new players and it's programmers job to keep them.
With that said, only question is; If you yourself are interested in giving it a go as it's a long, lonely and painful road ahead. If you're up for a challenge, present from technical pov your plan and vision and we can go from there on.
Nate
Re: Return To RTCW
by W0lfy » Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:25 pm
That's a great vision you have and I definitely would want to see RTCW revived. Unfortunately I don't possess any skills to help you get started with this noble task, only opinions. I would like to see RTCW reborn again with only a couple changes.
For one, it needs antilag similar to CPMA or ET. As someone who played in these recent OSP cups it's just too difficult to play with 200 ping against European teams.
And two, when you do /kill you should not recharge with a full bar of panzer or artillery. I feel like that was the decline of RTCW competition when everyone figured out how to do /kill so they could generate a lot of spam.
I'm not a fan of stats either and I feel that implementing them into the game caused RTCW to go downhill. It sounds strange but the game was much better before stats. So maybe a middle ground would be best in this regard where there are stats, but it's not all about your kill ratio like a lot of dumb people think.
Anyway good luck with this project and I hope it succeeds.
For one, it needs antilag similar to CPMA or ET. As someone who played in these recent OSP cups it's just too difficult to play with 200 ping against European teams.
And two, when you do /kill you should not recharge with a full bar of panzer or artillery. I feel like that was the decline of RTCW competition when everyone figured out how to do /kill so they could generate a lot of spam.
I'm not a fan of stats either and I feel that implementing them into the game caused RTCW to go downhill. It sounds strange but the game was much better before stats. So maybe a middle ground would be best in this regard where there are stats, but it's not all about your kill ratio like a lot of dumb people think.
Anyway good luck with this project and I hope it succeeds.
Re: Return To RTCW
by krazykaze » Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:26 pm
In my opinion stats and nade/arty/panzer /kills did not kill the competition. When ET came out RtCW started the decline. I think if ET would have been an add-on to RtCW instead of a stand-alone FREE game that RtCW would have thrived like it did in the beginning.
For pubs, yes the stats kill ratio thing is pretty obnoxious....especially when someone cares more about kills then reviving their teammates. But that's just the way it is. I enjoy the game for what it is.
Wolf 1.42 (io) is great, but without PB I don't see it having a lot of momentum. Sure you can use it, but only on non-PB servers. If anything else is done to the game, PB support is a must for it be popular. Then again, the game is so old and there are only hundreds of people playing still (instead of thousands) it's hard to see anything reviving the community. People have moved on and the only way I see them coming back is a brand new game just like RtCW. One example is the Degeneration mod. I thought it was really cool, but it never got anywhere.
For pubs, yes the stats kill ratio thing is pretty obnoxious....especially when someone cares more about kills then reviving their teammates. But that's just the way it is. I enjoy the game for what it is.
Wolf 1.42 (io) is great, but without PB I don't see it having a lot of momentum. Sure you can use it, but only on non-PB servers. If anything else is done to the game, PB support is a must for it be popular. Then again, the game is so old and there are only hundreds of people playing still (instead of thousands) it's hard to see anything reviving the community. People have moved on and the only way I see them coming back is a brand new game just like RtCW. One example is the Degeneration mod. I thought it was really cool, but it never got anywhere.
Re: Return To RTCW
by W0lfy » Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:14 am
Well in competitive OSP the /kill weapon spam did hurt the game imo. It may be because I was adept at staying alive for long periods of time on my spawns, so I tend to favor the opinion that the spam did hurt the game. It took out the survival aspect and just made it all about spam in competitive OSP. ET also sucked at the beginning because it was literally all spam. But at least ET became improved when the community was able to balance it and reduce the spam.
Before RTCW was a spamfest the original leaders like Team Darkside played the best way imo. The game was fast and dynamic and had more of a Quake feel to it which I like. The Doctors had more of a camping CS style which I was not a fan of even though they were excellent gamers and probably the best RTCW team overall. rhea from Team Abuse made OSP and probably had good intentions of putting stats in the game, but unfortunately the community was not able to handle it because they were too immature.
All this happened in the prime of the game and things went downhill after those teams retired. (Speaking only about the NA teams) That's when the Speakeasy dm_base kids and cheaters took over and basically killed the competitive aspect of the game. I don't think ET caused the decline, that may have been a contributing factor sure, but I feel the community itself killed RTCW once the original leaders of the game moved on.
These past few cups have been a good thing though and it's nice to see the teams and casters as well as the ECGN population keeping the game alive. It may not be the great game it used to be but it's better than nothing.
PB sucks and and they moved on from RTCW long ago. But there would definitely need to be some kind of anti-cheat protection, I agree with you on that aspect. And realistically if ever RTCW was to make a comeback it would probably have to be in the hands of id Software and the original Nerve developers. It's a daunting task you are taking on here BigBadWolf but I respect that you are trying to keep the RTCW dream alive and hope that it succeeds. Good luck.
Before RTCW was a spamfest the original leaders like Team Darkside played the best way imo. The game was fast and dynamic and had more of a Quake feel to it which I like. The Doctors had more of a camping CS style which I was not a fan of even though they were excellent gamers and probably the best RTCW team overall. rhea from Team Abuse made OSP and probably had good intentions of putting stats in the game, but unfortunately the community was not able to handle it because they were too immature.
All this happened in the prime of the game and things went downhill after those teams retired. (Speaking only about the NA teams) That's when the Speakeasy dm_base kids and cheaters took over and basically killed the competitive aspect of the game. I don't think ET caused the decline, that may have been a contributing factor sure, but I feel the community itself killed RTCW once the original leaders of the game moved on.
These past few cups have been a good thing though and it's nice to see the teams and casters as well as the ECGN population keeping the game alive. It may not be the great game it used to be but it's better than nothing.
PB sucks and and they moved on from RTCW long ago. But there would definitely need to be some kind of anti-cheat protection, I agree with you on that aspect. And realistically if ever RTCW was to make a comeback it would probably have to be in the hands of id Software and the original Nerve developers. It's a daunting task you are taking on here BigBadWolf but I respect that you are trying to keep the RTCW dream alive and hope that it succeeds. Good luck.
Re: Return To RTCW
by 'L0, » Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:46 am
/kill is in game since very start. Also, osp fixed FFE so avoiding getting spawn killed is much easier. Suicide is also a part of game, competitive aspect uses generally default spawn times so that's easily another tactical aspect of the game one has to count on while playing.
OSP stats are not intruding as they're neither shown nor advertised during a game like i.e. multi kills in other mods. I wont say there's no room for improvement as LT bar could as in ET be saved during a respawn rather then reset but I think that's hardly to be blamed for a downfall of the game. People just moved on, new generation came with new preferences..old style tactical team based games were something new generation simply didn't want. They wanted no brain, eye candy, camp->shot->kill games and that's the formula that publishers stick to.
Carmack said him self when he was asked about possibility of Et Live, that he simply don't think it would work as new generations aren't interested in this type of games and want simple approaches. A simple fact is, there's a void to be filled as FPS type became so generic that even new generations (for which is meant) are sick of it...bringing something like rtcw back is possible, it would just need to be well crafted and properly addressed so it attracts new players. That's part of my logic behind a graphics issue I keep coming back too. We old timers don't care about eye candy and we mostly disable it, but new players do and if we want to pore new blood that's part of a problem that has to be solved.
As for PB..PB is a joke. It's a false sense of security people lean on. There's bunch of cheats out there that are completely undetected, only thing PB does is bans lazy people that download first cheat they got. Which is fine but then there's the free key generator thing that pretty much allows them to generate a new key and repeat the process.
OSP stats are not intruding as they're neither shown nor advertised during a game like i.e. multi kills in other mods. I wont say there's no room for improvement as LT bar could as in ET be saved during a respawn rather then reset but I think that's hardly to be blamed for a downfall of the game. People just moved on, new generation came with new preferences..old style tactical team based games were something new generation simply didn't want. They wanted no brain, eye candy, camp->shot->kill games and that's the formula that publishers stick to.
Carmack said him self when he was asked about possibility of Et Live, that he simply don't think it would work as new generations aren't interested in this type of games and want simple approaches. A simple fact is, there's a void to be filled as FPS type became so generic that even new generations (for which is meant) are sick of it...bringing something like rtcw back is possible, it would just need to be well crafted and properly addressed so it attracts new players. That's part of my logic behind a graphics issue I keep coming back too. We old timers don't care about eye candy and we mostly disable it, but new players do and if we want to pore new blood that's part of a problem that has to be solved.
As for PB..PB is a joke. It's a false sense of security people lean on. There's bunch of cheats out there that are completely undetected, only thing PB does is bans lazy people that download first cheat they got. Which is fine but then there's the free key generator thing that pretty much allows them to generate a new key and repeat the process.
Re: Return To RTCW
by W0lfy » Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:45 am
/kill was implemented in the game since the start yes, but nobody used it much or abused it, except ironically Team Abuse. Those guys were very good and nice guys, so I don't like to talk smack about them but they basically started off that phase of everyone doing artillery strike spam and then doing /kill. They also were largely responsible for the standard radar 1 crossfire defense on base. So I feel like the game got stale after 2003 because everyone was basically running the same strategies. Suicide is part of the game I agree, but it needs to be changed so you don't get a full bar of spam. This is something that was implemented in ET and I think they were on the right track.
In RTCW the panzer became overpowered because of /kill. It simply became too much of a spam weapon. Before the /kill stuff panzer was pretty balanced imo but then suiciding for a full bar made the weapon overpowered. And hence contributed to the downfall of RTCW.
Another large issue with RTCW is that there were never any good custom maps for competition. Not a single one. Some like te_ufo are tolerable but there was never any map made by modders that was able to match the stock competition maps. So I would like to see some new maps that are good for competition, but realistically I know this won't happen.
And finally, why the fuck did id Software get rid of the master server? That has reduced what's left of this community even more. I'm sure some newbie type players have tried to get into the game and they thought it was dead/broken because the master server was taken down. RTCW Live is just a fantasy I guess but hey maybe we'll get lucky.
In RTCW the panzer became overpowered because of /kill. It simply became too much of a spam weapon. Before the /kill stuff panzer was pretty balanced imo but then suiciding for a full bar made the weapon overpowered. And hence contributed to the downfall of RTCW.
Another large issue with RTCW is that there were never any good custom maps for competition. Not a single one. Some like te_ufo are tolerable but there was never any map made by modders that was able to match the stock competition maps. So I would like to see some new maps that are good for competition, but realistically I know this won't happen.
And finally, why the fuck did id Software get rid of the master server? That has reduced what's left of this community even more. I'm sure some newbie type players have tried to get into the game and they thought it was dead/broken because the master server was taken down. RTCW Live is just a fantasy I guess but hey maybe we'll get lucky.
Re: Return To RTCW
by 'L0, » Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:59 pm
There's bunch of good competition maps..te_frostbite, te_escape2 and so on. Problem was the download rate. Rtcw was developed in time where 56k was standard, isdn top notch and cable was the bomb. Whole default banning processes reflects the era it was developed (g_banIPs // 255 chars no wildcards static IP entries) lol.
If I'm correct ET did not have http downloads till final or so release either. Although, see what custom maps and fast downloads created out of ET today..it's a mess, every server you connect to requires 5-10 files of 10+mb crap packs..I never liked ET as it was to slow for me but at times it was fun..now I don't even bother since I randomly selected server and always ended up downloading for 20 mins while I wanted to play like 10 mins..rtcw at least doesn't suffer from that.
Master server was on for 10 years, that's extremely long for a game so eventually it had to happen. It may lasted longer if there wouldn't be used in drdos scheme but well...at the end of the day, I don't think there's one single thing that killed the game, it's just that it's old and people moved on. At that time cod, cs, et were getting the hype so they simply switched...I often say that what kill the game is crappy mods but truth to be told, they're the only ones keeping the crowd in some cases, albeit then the crowd's attitude reflects the crap they play on.
If I'm correct ET did not have http downloads till final or so release either. Although, see what custom maps and fast downloads created out of ET today..it's a mess, every server you connect to requires 5-10 files of 10+mb crap packs..I never liked ET as it was to slow for me but at times it was fun..now I don't even bother since I randomly selected server and always ended up downloading for 20 mins while I wanted to play like 10 mins..rtcw at least doesn't suffer from that.
Master server was on for 10 years, that's extremely long for a game so eventually it had to happen. It may lasted longer if there wouldn't be used in drdos scheme but well...at the end of the day, I don't think there's one single thing that killed the game, it's just that it's old and people moved on. At that time cod, cs, et were getting the hype so they simply switched...I often say that what kill the game is crappy mods but truth to be told, they're the only ones keeping the crowd in some cases, albeit then the crowd's attitude reflects the crap they play on.
Re: Return To RTCW
by W0lfy » Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:41 pm
I agree with most of what you said except the good competition maps. Both of those maps suck balls in my opinion. Especially frostbite which the Euros love for some reason. To me it is nothing but an ET spam map which doesn't belong in RTCW. However the Euros hate sub but I always loved sub even though they were short rounds.
Re: Return To RTCW
by 'L0, » Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:36 pm
Frostbite is imho a nice map tho to each their own. Sub was never a thing here sadly..I like it as well but people complained it was too unbalanced as there was only one real choke point PF could basically guard.
I guess we strayed out of the subject as little...@BigBadWolf, if you want to redo then start with a beach map, it's a safe bet as that map was always #1.
I guess we strayed out of the subject as little...@BigBadWolf, if you want to redo then start with a beach map, it's a safe bet as that map was always #1.
Re: Return To RTCW
by 'L0, » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:11 am
Never in my wildest dreams I imagined they'll pick such a route. I'm waiting for u4 almost a year- since I heard that unreal scripting will be replaced with c++. I thought they'll abstract it rather then allow direct access to the metal. This is a steal.
- BigBadWolf
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- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:35 pm
- Location: Kansas
Re: Return To RTCW
by BigBadWolf » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:08 pm
It wouldn't survive long if it were only updated and not take into account any new trends in games. Some things are beaten to death, how many CoD games are there? But something attractive and well known is a must.
There are a couple things id like to add, that would essentially be game types.
- Campaign mode that the outcome of the current map affects variables of the next. Such as layout, or spawn points...
- "Zombie Mode" where you still play the levels as normal, but opposing teams have a common enemy.
- Mix gametypes
The plan is to update the game assets and the original shipped mp levels. No GoTY or popular 3rd party, again that will be for the community.
I think it would be important to be able to play the game in a classic sense, and have the option of the new game types if preferred. As for anti-cheat software, that will be a future development.
And a new master server will be written for development/launch. Thinking about building in PHP to make a web friendly front end to view servers, but a C based instance already exists.
Beach is the first in production. I'm experimenting with IoRtCW at the moment to see if that's the route id like to take as that will determine the format the levels are built in. Pros is it already has the game mechanics and quirks like strafe jumping which are classic. Cons is it was designed for older hardware, so its quite limited in memory and allowed assets in a level. Opposed to a different engine, such as UE4 or Source, where id have to find help, or write the game code.
First bit on info available will be the project info/outline, then some info on the conversion of Beach.
There are a couple things id like to add, that would essentially be game types.
- Campaign mode that the outcome of the current map affects variables of the next. Such as layout, or spawn points...
- "Zombie Mode" where you still play the levels as normal, but opposing teams have a common enemy.
- Mix gametypes
The plan is to update the game assets and the original shipped mp levels. No GoTY or popular 3rd party, again that will be for the community.
I think it would be important to be able to play the game in a classic sense, and have the option of the new game types if preferred. As for anti-cheat software, that will be a future development.
And a new master server will be written for development/launch. Thinking about building in PHP to make a web friendly front end to view servers, but a C based instance already exists.
Beach is the first in production. I'm experimenting with IoRtCW at the moment to see if that's the route id like to take as that will determine the format the levels are built in. Pros is it already has the game mechanics and quirks like strafe jumping which are classic. Cons is it was designed for older hardware, so its quite limited in memory and allowed assets in a level. Opposed to a different engine, such as UE4 or Source, where id have to find help, or write the game code.
First bit on info available will be the project info/outline, then some info on the conversion of Beach.
Pain is only an illusion...
Re: Return To RTCW
by 'L0, » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:27 pm
Skip the master process all together.
PHP is not adequate for master server. I went down that route. PHP is not really meant for long lasting socket scripts as such it doesn't degrade nicely, there's no way to implement any flood protection on the baseline etc..just use dpmaster. I run a modified (white list based) dpmaster as well as last year created a modified fork for key authorization process (global banning etc) with combination with web front end script (to generate serial on per user basis) for one of my rtcw projects..it's less then an hours job to add *sql support to dpmaster and tap into functions with modified checks as well as modify variables so they're parsed on run time (sql user etc..). It also comes with flood protection as well overall it's a mature code base. You can easily query master server with PHP, there's a script already out (if I'm not mistaken by Jun!or). You can grab it at wolfmp.info (EDIT: Site doesn't exists anymore..and some porn crap took over the domain..) or simply make your own as it's just few socket calls. If that script is unavailable I have a copy somewhere as well as my own I wrote that's little cleaner.
As for modifications you mention. Those are really logic tweaks rather then engine related work so doesn't really require further addressing as it's just a matter of a plan and going for it.
As far as experience goes. IoRtcw comes with little more modern renderer but yeah, stuff still lacks some serious work; Modern mapping support, model supports, UI support, fixing broken artists pipeline etc..there's a lot to be desired here. How ever you turn it, you wont be able to escape coding - either by redoing logic (if different engine) or some serious work on the engine part if you really want to go for it. That's basically the real Q here..which way to pick? It's a shame there's no gifted graphic programmer around that could truly push the renderer and fix the broken pipeline..trigonometry, vectors, gl calls and all the crap tied to it are a nightmare.
Personally, I may be interested in your project and lending a hand if I'm convinced it's not just another dead end..primary who's the targeted crowd and how far off you're willing to go with it?
If you wish, you can add me @ skype: nate.afk
PHP is not adequate for master server. I went down that route. PHP is not really meant for long lasting socket scripts as such it doesn't degrade nicely, there's no way to implement any flood protection on the baseline etc..just use dpmaster. I run a modified (white list based) dpmaster as well as last year created a modified fork for key authorization process (global banning etc) with combination with web front end script (to generate serial on per user basis) for one of my rtcw projects..it's less then an hours job to add *sql support to dpmaster and tap into functions with modified checks as well as modify variables so they're parsed on run time (sql user etc..). It also comes with flood protection as well overall it's a mature code base. You can easily query master server with PHP, there's a script already out (if I'm not mistaken by Jun!or). You can grab it at wolfmp.info (EDIT: Site doesn't exists anymore..and some porn crap took over the domain..) or simply make your own as it's just few socket calls. If that script is unavailable I have a copy somewhere as well as my own I wrote that's little cleaner.
As for modifications you mention. Those are really logic tweaks rather then engine related work so doesn't really require further addressing as it's just a matter of a plan and going for it.
As far as experience goes. IoRtcw comes with little more modern renderer but yeah, stuff still lacks some serious work; Modern mapping support, model supports, UI support, fixing broken artists pipeline etc..there's a lot to be desired here. How ever you turn it, you wont be able to escape coding - either by redoing logic (if different engine) or some serious work on the engine part if you really want to go for it. That's basically the real Q here..which way to pick? It's a shame there's no gifted graphic programmer around that could truly push the renderer and fix the broken pipeline..trigonometry, vectors, gl calls and all the crap tied to it are a nightmare.
Personally, I may be interested in your project and lending a hand if I'm convinced it's not just another dead end..primary who's the targeted crowd and how far off you're willing to go with it?
If you wish, you can add me @ skype: nate.afk
Last edited by 'L0, on Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Return To RTCW
by EurO » Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:27 am
Sorry if I can't read all the opinions written so far.... I am a long-standing ECGN player, and have been in multiple RTCW clans.
The only thing I can say (and have said since the start) is that Wolf died because of the slow download rate of maps, mods and updates. I am currently playing Urban Terror, which is a QuakeIII mutiplayer game, but I can get a 28 MB map in less than a minute. When I first experienced Steam with the automatic and instant login/update feature, it seemed like that's the way it should be. The history of great RTCWmods like DeGeneration and WildWest, but the lack of players, was because the core game was built with the assumption that some people still had a dial-up internet connection. I am thinking that no one is left playing this game that wants to put the time and input into it. It's unfortunate, because I love RTCW as much as the rabid fan, but really, it was doomed from the start. They said that defensive weapons like the panz, ven and flamethrower in multiplayer Wolf were so powerful that it would be impossible to beat a team where everyone is one or the other. Secondly, and less importantly, to have to learn all the different classes (Eng, LT, medic, etc) of player and what each did (or had to do) was too much for the general gamer to bother with. It was all deathmatch and capture-the-flag back then.
Best of luck in your RTCW infusion...
The only thing I can say (and have said since the start) is that Wolf died because of the slow download rate of maps, mods and updates. I am currently playing Urban Terror, which is a QuakeIII mutiplayer game, but I can get a 28 MB map in less than a minute. When I first experienced Steam with the automatic and instant login/update feature, it seemed like that's the way it should be. The history of great RTCWmods like DeGeneration and WildWest, but the lack of players, was because the core game was built with the assumption that some people still had a dial-up internet connection. I am thinking that no one is left playing this game that wants to put the time and input into it. It's unfortunate, because I love RTCW as much as the rabid fan, but really, it was doomed from the start. They said that defensive weapons like the panz, ven and flamethrower in multiplayer Wolf were so powerful that it would be impossible to beat a team where everyone is one or the other. Secondly, and less importantly, to have to learn all the different classes (Eng, LT, medic, etc) of player and what each did (or had to do) was too much for the general gamer to bother with. It was all deathmatch and capture-the-flag back then.
Best of luck in your RTCW infusion...
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